Report: I-basket swap

[FreezyRider]

If you have been following the MotorKote tracking and comments thread, you know that I have purchased an I basket to replace on my own. My RSV is a 99....Yamaha has a good warranty, but 10 years is probably asking a bit much to have them replace a basket now.

Anyway, my bike was purchased in June through ebay. I did not ride it prior to purchase. When I picked it up, it had the worst whine/chirp/scream of any bike I've ever heard. Friends commented on it all the time....they could hear it while riding in a group with me. So, I decided to pony up the bucks and replace it.

 

MotorKote removed or quieted probably 50% or so of my noise. At that level it was still unbearable.

 

My parts finally all arrived today, and I reassembled the bike this evening. Then went for a 20 minute ride. And.......THE CRICKETS ARE DEAD! I absolutely am stunned at the difference. No scream, no chirp....maybe just a hint of a whine if you listen for it. What a wonderful ride it was....I soon found myself just enjoying the beautiful evening and the cool air blowing on my uncovered arms...realized that I wasn't even thinking about a noise anymore! I would not have believed it.

 

To be honest, I had doubts about whether this would help. Others have had theirs changed and it either didn't help, helped only slightly, or just moved the noise to a different RPM range.

I am tickled to report that I no longer have a Chirper or Whiner. Just a normal sounding engine. Thank the good Lord above.....

 

If anyone decides to go this route and change their basket themselves, please contact me. I have some "life lessons" to share with you.....as well as necessary tools if you need them.

 

Those of you fighting Yamaha over this issue....PERSIST!!! There is no way that your noise is "normal" or a "characteristic" of this engine. I wish you could have heard mine when I first got it and could hear it now. WOW.

 

Joe

:big-grin-emoticon:

[Wanderer]

It's obvious to me that you have a thing against crickets, and I quote "THE CRICKETS ARE DEAD!"

I'm sorry, but this is unacceptable and I feel it necessary to contact PETA. I'm sure you'll here from them soon.

[FreezyRider]

BRING "EM ON!!!

 

PETA is PITA!!!

 

Joe

[Cougar]

AWESOME, Now send me ALL of the rest of your MotorKote.

You will not be needing that anymore. Also let me know how the sound

is after about 200 miles. that is all it will take to be sure the crickets

are gone/dead for good! Ohh so you WILL owe me that dinner after all .

Keep in touch!

Jeff

[FreezyRider]

AWESOME, Now send me ALL of the rest of your MotorKote.

You will not be needing that anymore. Also let me know how the sound

is after about 200 miles. that is all it will take to be sure the crickets

are gone/dead for good! Ohh so you WILL owe me that dinner after all .

Keep in touch!

Jeff

 

You gotta come to our Southern Indiana ride the first weekend of Oct so that I can have proof of your awful whine. I don't pay off without solid proof!!!

 

BTW....I'm still going to be running MotorKote. I'm sold on the stuff. If it can quiet crickets down, it has to be good for the innards of the engine!

 

Joe

[Cougar]

As soon as I leave Iowa you will hear me coming *lol*

I think I need to call you in the next couple days about

this new basket of yours. I will be off from noon tomorrow

until next Tuesday!

Jeff

[FreezyRider]

As soon as I leave Iowa you will hear me coming *lol*

I think I need to call you in the next couple days about

this new basket of yours. I will be off from noon tomorrow

until next Tuesday!

Jeff

 

 

Are you sure you're not "off" already???

:rotf:

 

Hey, call me anytime. Cell ph is in my profile.

 

Joe

[RandyR]

The only good chirp is a dead chirp.....

 

I think Ted Nugent said that...?

[silverdeer0454]

BRING "EM ON!!!

 

PETA is PITA!!!

 

Joe

 

P = People

 

E = Eating

 

T = Tasty

 

A = Animals

 

I have that Tee shirt.

(don't be offended...it's all in fun, and no one will get hurt)

[FreezyRider]

This morning I rode to work. Temps in the upper 40's, as opposed to last night's ride temps in the mid 70's. This morning there was a pretty consistent whine the whole way. Not offensive, not loud, but audible. It would pretty much go away at whatever rpm my engine turns at an indicated 68mph in 5th gear.

 

In the past, when the noise was more of a scream or huge chirp, I had noticed that it also seemed to be temperature sensitive. This is puzzling to me. Why would an ambient air temp difference of 25 degrees make any difference at all once the engine has warmed up to operating temps? Or does the engine actually run that much cooler on a brisk morning even after running 10 miles? At engine operating temps I can't imagine that there would be all that much temperature difference of the internal engine components.

 

Today's high is forecast to be 80 degrees. It will be interesting to see what I hear on the way home.

 

Joe (BasketMan)

[Freebird]

I can tell you since adding my gauges that ambient temperature certainly does make some difference in the operating temp of the engine. Mine runs considerably hotter when it is really hot outside.

[FreezyRider]

I can tell you since adding my gauges that ambient temperature certainly does make some difference in the operating temp of the engine. Mine runs considerably hotter when it is really hot outside.

 

Don, if you happen to remember to look, I'd appreciate knowing (just because I'm anal) how much difference there is in operating temps between an ambient temp of 50 and one of 70 or so. If you don't mind.....

 

Joe

[V7Goose]

I can tell you since adding my gauges that ambient temperature certainly does make some difference in the operating temp of the engine. Mine runs considerably hotter when it is really hot outside.

That's interesting Don, but not my experience at all. When the outside temps are cool, my bike always runs right at 210, but if the outside temps are close to 100, the bike tends to run at 195 or 200. My 07 RSV did exactly the same thing. 50 to 70 won't make any difference at all; my bikes will stay locked it at 210 probably anywhere from 30-90.

 

I can't really explain it, but I think that maybe the cooler air chills the water in the radiator enough to somehow keep the thermostat from fully opening that last little bit, but when the outside temps are high enough and the thermostat stays completely open, the cooling effect is enough to keep the water temps just a bit lower. This theory seems relatively consistent with what I see when the temps are way down around 20, and under the right conditions the engine temperature will constantly swing from about 160 to 230 and back. In that situation, the rush of VERY cold coolant into the engine as soon as the thermostat starts cracking open just causes the thermostat to clam up again until the engine temp reheats the coolant, which starts the cycle all over again. And remember, our temp sensor is mounted right in the head next to the plug, not out near the thermostat. The head location is also much closer to the fresh coolant coming in from the radiator, so in a cycle like that it will read the real cool water faster, then the higher temperatures that build up before the thermostat does.

Goose

[V-4 Vendetta]

This morning I rode to work. Temps in the upper 40's, as opposed to last night's ride temps in the mid 70's. This morning there was a pretty consistent whine the whole way. Not offensive, not loud, but audible. It would pretty much go away at whatever rpm my engine turns at an indicated 68mph in 5th gear.

 

In the past, when the noise was more of a scream or huge chirp, I had noticed that it also seemed to be temperature sensitive. This is puzzling to me. Why would an ambient air temp difference of 25 degrees make any difference at all once the engine has warmed up to operating temps? Or does the engine actually run that much cooler on a brisk morning even after running 10 miles? At engine operating temps I can't imagine that there would be all that much temperature difference of the internal engine components.

 

Today's high is forecast to be 80 degrees. It will be interesting to see what I hear on the way home.

 

Joe (BasketMan)

 

Hotter outside always equals hotter inside the engine and Cooler outside always equals a cooler running engine. Ambient temperature always affect the running temperature of anything that's not insulated to withstand the change.

[V7Goose]

Hotter outside always equals hotter inside the engine and Cooler outside always equals a cooler running engine. Ambient temperature always affect the running temperature of anything that's not insulated to withstand the change.

Absolutely and totally not true for a liquid cooled engine.

 

The engine creates it's own heat, and very little of it is dissipated directly to the outside air since the water jackets work like insulators. The radiator is the point where the heat is released from the water, but the key component that makes your statement so untrue is the thermostat. When the thermostat is closed, virtually no water is circulating through the radiator to exchange heat. And thermostats do not act like an of/off switch, they open slowly like a faucet, and they will stay partially open if the mix of heated water from the engine and cooler water from the radiator is just right to meet the target temperature.

 

In short, your statement would be true if you remove the thermostat, but not as the engine is designed (to maintain a constant temperature in spite of changing outside temps). In fact, this design, to maintain a constant temperature, is why water cooled engines have tighter tolerances than air cooled engines.

Goose

[FreezyRider]

Absolutely and totally not true for a liquid cooled engine.

 

 

Goose

 

Yeah, that's what I thought too. The fins on our engines are just for looks, they do nothing to cool the critter down.

 

So Goose, do you think it's possible that on a cool morning the engine is actually running a bit warmer than on a warm (not hot) day? And that is what could be affecting the noise level?

 

Or is it more likely that the rush of cold morning air underneath the bike is providing a cooling effect on the aluminum oil pan and that is what is contributing to the noise difference?

 

Not that it really matters.....

 

Joe

[V7Goose]

Yeah, that's what I thought too. The fins on our engines are just for looks, they do nothing to cool the critter down.

 

So Goose, do you think it's possible that on a cool morning the engine is actually running a bit warmer than on a warm (not hot) day? And that is what could be affecting the noise level?

 

Or is it more likely that the rush of cold morning air underneath the bike is providing a cooling effect on the aluminum oil pan and that is what is contributing to the noise difference?

 

Not that it really matters.....

 

Joe

I honestly cannot answer that with anything but a WAG. I strongly doubt that the internal temperature of the gears is any different. It seems much more likely that the outside temperature is affecting the transmission of the sound waves. But as I have seen with my own motor, internal temperature DOES vary with outside temp - usually in an inverse pattern, but it still changes. All I have really noticed is the difference with HUGE temperature swings, but it is certainly possible there is a minor internal change that is causing what you describe. Sorry I can't do any better than that.

 

But on an unrelated note, as I alluded to in the other thread, consider working with someone else to test that old basket of yours. What was a screamer on yours might be perfect on a different bike that was not helped by an I basket!

 

I would love to put together a collection of old baskets to help people swap them around as a test, but I really do not know where I might get them.

Goose

[dr_bar]

Nah.... on a cooler day, ambiant sound travels better...

.............................................................................................http://bestsmileys.com/eyes/1.gif

[pegscraper]

Well I'm going to have to come down there and hear it now, because I did hear it before and I never heard anything like it. I could hear you blocks away. You got the clutch changed by yourself, eh? It goes a lot easier with an impact gun. No holding tools necessary.

[Ozlander]

The lower engine cases are not water-cooled. They will always be colder when 30* air is blowing on them than they will be when 100* air is blowing on them.

 

Also, then fins don't know they are just for looks. Anytime you have more surface area, you will have more heat transfer.

 

The aluminum cases expand more than the steel gears do. Therefore there will be more gear clearance on a hot day than on a cold day.

[FreezyRider]

Well I'm going to have to come down there and hear it now, because I did hear it before and I never heard anything like it. I could hear you blocks away. You got the clutch changed by yourself, eh? It goes a lot easier with an impact gun. No holding tools necessary.

 

Yeah, you'll have to ride it again and give me your view of the improvement.

 

It may go easier with an impact gun, but when you don't have an air compressor OR an impact gun, the $30 tool is a much more attractive alternative. Once it is apart with the clutch pressure plate removed (at least with a Barnett clutch) the inner clutch boss will spin easily. I think you'd still have to have some method of holding it even with an impact. Plus, how you gonna torque it to 50 ft-lbs when reassembling without properly holding the clutch boss?

 

Hey, you guys enjoying the new exchange student?

 

Joe

[SilvrT]

FYI... here's a great article on replacing the basket...

 

http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/index.php?action=article&cat_id=002006&id=309&highlight=clutch%20basket

 

Couldn't find anything similar in our own site...maybe there is.

[ManWithAVision]

If you have been following the MotorKote tracking and comments thread, you know that I have purchased an I basket to replace on my own. My RSV is a 99....Yamaha has a good warranty, but 10 years is probably asking a bit much to have them replace a basket now.

Anyway, my bike was purchased in June through ebay. I did not ride it prior to purchase. When I picked it up, it had the worst whine/chirp/scream of any bike I've ever heard. Friends commented on it all the time....they could hear it while riding in a group with me. So, I decided to pony up the bucks and replace it.

 

MotorKote removed or quieted probably 50% or so of my noise. At that level it was still unbearable.

 

My parts finally all arrived today, and I reassembled the bike this evening. Then went for a 20 minute ride. And.......THE CRICKETS ARE DEAD! I absolutely am stunned at the difference. No scream, no chirp....maybe just a hint of a whine if you listen for it. What a wonderful ride it was....I soon found myself just enjoying the beautiful evening and the cool air blowing on my uncovered arms...realized that I wasn't even thinking about a noise anymore! I would not have believed it.

 

To be honest, I had doubts about whether this would help. Others have had theirs changed and it either didn't help, helped only slightly, or just moved the noise to a different RPM range.

I am tickled to report that I no longer have a Chirper or Whiner. Just a normal sounding engine. Thank the good Lord above.....

 

If anyone decides to go this route and change their basket themselves, please contact me. I have some "life lessons" to share with you.....as well as necessary tools if you need them.

 

Those of you fighting Yamaha over this issue....PERSIST!!! There is no way that your noise is "normal" or a "characteristic" of this engine. I wish you could have heard mine when I first got it and could hear it now. WOW.

 

Joe

:big-grin-emoticon:

 

Thanks for the update on the I-basket install Joe. The Motorkote has made a significant difference for my 06 RSTD and I still have the Amsoil experiment to try. Mine is still under warranty so I think I will take a shot at getting the dealer involved when I take it in for the 7000 Km check-up this fall. If you don't mind, I will take along a copy of your posting and let them read it before they poo poo my request.

 

Wayne

[FreezyRider]

Thanks for the update on the I-basket install Joe. The Motorkote has made a significant difference for my 06 RSTD and I still have the Amsoil experiment to try. Mine is still under warranty so I think I will take a shot at getting the dealer involved when I take it in for the 7000 Km check-up this fall. If you don't mind, I will take along a copy of your posting and let them read it before they poo poo my request.

 

Wayne

 

Be my guest, Wayne. And I wish you luck. Hopefully Yamaha and/or your dealer will do the right thing.

 

Joe

[pegscraper]

With an impact gun you can remove and install it just holding it with your hand. Use a low setting and just blow it on there. Installed torque doesn't seem to be that critical. I had read too many tales of VMX boys doing it that way, so that's what I did. I guess it's a matter of what tools you have or want.

 

Our exchange student? Hijacking your own post, are you? It's a lot of fun having her around. She loves riding on the "motorbike" with me. It's "giant". I could tell you some funny tales. When she gets really tired and ready for bed, she'll start responding to us in her own language. Then she recognizes what she did and starts laughing. She's done that three times now. We just laugh. She's a big racing fan, but had never been to one before because none are held anywhere near her home. We took her to the Moto GP race in Indy last weekend where she got her favorite racer's autograph and had a lot of fun. But I won't take up more of your space here with that.