Response from Yamaha Canada re: Clutch Basket

[V-4 Vendetta]

Has anyone thought of finding a good machine shop that could remake the gears and basket to mesh properly? Doing so could cause the machine shop to make big bucks for all the redo's they would have. Could be pretty lucrative for some major shop and give Yamaha a big poop sandwich to eat!!!

[SilvrT]

Has anyone thought of finding a good machine shop that could remake the gears and basket to mesh properly? Doing so could cause the machine shop to make big bucks for all the redo's they would have. Could be pretty lucrative for some major shop and give Yamaha a big poop sandwich to eat!!!

 

I would think that the ROI for such a venture would not prove lucrative enough.

[silverdeer0454]

I would think that the ROI for such a venture would not prove lucrative enough.

 

The ROI would probably be good because the cost of the machine work would be passed on to the consumer. There comes a point where cost outweighs benefit.

 

 

 

BTW: SilvrT - Are you ready for the Winter Olympics?

 

[SilvrT]

The ROI would probably be good because the cost of the machine work would be passed on to the consumer. There comes a point where cost outweighs benefit.

 

 

 

BTW: SilvrT - Are you ready for the Winter Olympics?

 

 

 

I would think there would be a lot more to it than just "machine work". It would require not only that but also a lot of testing to ensure it would work all the time. And then there's the issue of ensuring that enough customers could be had to keep the cost to a figure that the market could bear. It's a "business opportunity" that would require a solid and well researched business plan and my gut feeling is that the business plan would prove it not worthwhile. On the flip-side, if it was, wouldn't one think that someone, even Yamaha, would have done this??

 

Winter Olympics??? never heard of it....

[davecb]

OK....First....Yamaha will reinstall your old basket if you do not like the new one. Now, The whine mostly comes on at 55MPH. You have 2 choices. Either speed up/slow down or drop down a gear. I have a tach on my bike, and before I replaced the basket, the noise would run fron 2300RPM to 3000Rpm. Now it is a little noisy at 2500RPM. It won't hurt dropping down a gear, cause these engines love to wind. They just sound like they are really cranking the RPM, when in actuality, they are not. Trust me, you do not realize this unless you have a tach. My whine was so bad I could not run at 55MPH in 5th gear. You could hear ir a block away. Keep the RPM up and you won't hear the whine at all....

[footsie]

I see 2 ways to look at this problem, one trade bikes, which all honesty none are perfect, the harley's shake themselves apart at the redlights, which I hate, much rather tollerate the chirp,( and my 2000 had the loudest chirp of any that I know of, at 65 mph you could not hear the radio at full volume.) the 2004 I now own does have some chirp if you listen closely with the radio off and are at 52 mph and lean over to the right side on a quiet road way with a shorty helmet you can hear a very low sound.

But I rode the 2000 until I decided I wanted a white bike, and did not want to take the time to paint the red one.

 

Ok back to the point, any bike you buy will have something that you don't like, for me the venture has the most I do like.

The rep at yamaha has the wrong attitude and did not handle this situation properly. Try going to someone higher up at yamaha, or maybe try a different dealer for help.

 

Don't give up, that is what they want you to do.

 

Gregg

Edited September 2, 2009 by footsie
added words

[SilvrT]

So, here's his latest reply...

 

Good morning:

I am afraid the 'I' basket is a bit of a myth but we have tried numerous things over the years to investigate reported noise issues. Motorcycles have inherent engine noises and certain factors are going to determine if a motorcycle's engine creates additional noise - break-in, oil used, maintenance, etc.

Time and product monitoring have determined, with this specific model, that the noise as described in your e-mail is inherent. Various factors may contribute to the noise developing but changing baskets can actually increase the noise or not change it at all.

Regards,

Scott

[SilvrT]

OK....First....Yamaha will reinstall your old basket if you do not like the new one. Now, The whine mostly comes on at 55MPH. You have 2 choices. Either speed up/slow down or drop down a gear. I have a tach on my bike, and before I replaced the basket, the noise would run fron 2300RPM to 3000Rpm. Now it is a little noisy at 2500RPM. It won't hurt dropping down a gear, cause these engines love to wind. They just sound like they are really cranking the RPM, when in actuality, they are not. Trust me, you do not realize this unless you have a tach. My whine was so bad I could not run at 55MPH in 5th gear. You could hear ir a block away. Keep the RPM up and you won't hear the whine at all....

 

Install the old basket: .... Yamaha won't but the dealer will ... at a cost (they told me $50 and I had 2 weeks to decide...it's well beyond that now)

[FreezyRider]

So, here's his latest reply...

 

Good morning:

I am afraid the 'I' basket is a bit of a myth but we have tried numerous things over the years to investigate reported noise issues. Motorcycles have inherent engine noises and certain factors are going to determine if a motorcycle's engine creates additional noise - break-in, oil used, maintenance, etc.

Time and product monitoring have determined, with this specific model, that the noise as described in your e-mail is inherent. Various factors may contribute to the noise developing but changing baskets can actually increase the noise or not change it at all.

Regards,

Scott

 

 

Well, tell him to come see me. I can show him a "myth" in person.

BTW, the Yamaha part number for this myth is 4XY-16150-90-00. On the back of said myth is a hand-engraved identifier in the format I-xx-xx. The stock one that I took out also had a hand-egraved code such as H-xx-xx.

 

Myth indeed.

 

Joe

[FreezyRider]

Install the old basket: .... Yamaha won't but the dealer will ... at a cost (they told me $50 and I had 2 weeks to decide...it's well beyond that now)

 

Change it yourself. I can provide the tools (shipping costs only) if you need them, as well as instructions with pictures. You would probably need a gasket (about $10)....maybe not. Would take an hour or less. Having done it once, I could now do them in less than 30 minutes.

 

Joe

[V7Goose]

The myth is that the I basket is a sure-fire fix. The issue, as I understand it, is the specific mating between the basket and the other straight-cut gear in the engine. Just changing the basket to any specific other basket is a crap shoot. If the I basket would fix them all, don't you think all new motors would be coming with an I basket?

 

For those few that have a bad noise, the key is actually trying DIFFERENT baskets, maybe an I, a G or whatever, until the combination of the basket with the internal gear works.

 

What I would recommend is that two "whiners" (I guess "chirpers" would be nicer) get together and try swapping baskets, just to see what happens. It ain't that hard.

Goose

[dr_bar]

He might just find it interesting that you are posting the conversation on this forum.

BTW--Great job in your comunications.

 

Steve

 

This is probably the last thing you want to do, he'll stop being free with his useless info and probably stop comunicating completely. At the end of it all, I would let him know what you've done, or forward a link to this topic to someone well over his head...

 

Doug

[FreezyRider]

What I would recommend is that two "whiners" (I guess "chirpers" would be nicer) get together and try swapping baskets, just to see what happens. It ain't that hard.

Goose

 

A while back several of us (Cougar started it I think) discussed doing just that. And it may be worth a shot, although I am skeptical. Every clutch basket that I've heard of being changed has been the H basket. It seems that the H is automatically thrown on when the bike is assembled. I could be wrong, but that's what I've heard from others who've gone through the change.

So, if all new bikes come with an H basket, where would we get a supply of "differently toleranced" baskets to swap around?

There is an outside chance that my H basket could be just enough different to work well in someone else's bike, but again I'd be skeptical of that.

 

My old basket is available for this trial if anyone wants to try it. If anyone is close enough to me, I'd be willing to do the work.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Joe

Edited September 2, 2009 by FreezyRider
additional info

[eagleeye]

What I would recommend is that two "whiners" (I guess "chirpers" would be nicer) get together and try swapping baskets, just to see what happens. It ain't that hard.

Goose

 

Now that is the best idea I've heard in a long time.

Good job, Goose.

 

I do notice mine making noises every now and then, but then again, being hard of hearing does have it's advantages.

A good friend of mine who has been a Yamaha mech forever has always hated these motors because of all the noises that they make.

 

Steve

[RandyR]

[quote=SilvrT;380359

 

Now, let me elaborate on information I have devulged from the mechanic that replaced the clutch basket.

 

He told me that this problem goes way back to the mid 90's and was occurring on models other than the RSV. He told me that in those days, they had to take dial gauge readings on the gear lash between the basket gear and the primary gear it meshes with. They would then send those readings to Yamaha and would receive a basket that provided a better gear lash, reducing or eliminating the whine. He told me that it is because neither components are manufactured as a "unit", subsequently, in many cases the gears don't mate 100% correctly, which causes the whine.

.

 

I think that we need to find out more about what tolerences this mechanic was measuring and what spec changed when Yamaha provided a new basket. That gives us a goal.

 

Better yet. Yamaha must have issued a Tech Bulletin telling the mechanic what and how to measure. It would be good to get a copy of what Yamaha wrote.

Edited September 2, 2009 by RandyR

[wolfman1]

I think that we need to find out more about what tolerences this mechanic was measuring and what spec changed when Yamaha provided a new basket. That gives us a goal.

 

Better yet. Yamaha must have issued a Tech Bulletin telling the mechanic what and how to measure. It would be good to get a copy of what Yamaha wrote.

 

 

Try starting with Yamaha Tech Bulletin No. M2002013 re: engine whine from clutch area

 

Cheers,

Steve

[RandyR]

Try starting with Yamaha Tech Bulletin No. M2002013 re: engine whine from clutch area

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

Thx Steve. A web search of that bulletin number turns up a prior post you made 2 years ago pointing to: http://www.nopork.com/tsb.asp?action=showrecalls&make=Yamaha&yr=2002&model=XVZ13

 

If I go there it indicates the tech bulletin number and the text: SUBJECT REGARDING ENING WHINE FROM CLUTCH AREA. *TT

 

But I can't find the details of the tech bulletin. Does anyone have the complete text?

[SilvrT]

Try starting with Yamaha Tech Bulletin No. M2002013 re: engine whine from clutch area

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

Does anyone have a copy of this?

 

A while back several of us (Cougar started it I think) discussed doing just that. And it may be worth a shot, although I am skeptical. Every clutch basket that I've heard of being changed has been the H basket. It seems that the H is automatically thrown on when the bike is assembled. I could be wrong, but that's what I've heard from others who've gone through the change.

So, if all new bikes come with an H basket, where would we get a supply of "differently toleranced" baskets to swap around?

There is an outside chance that my H basket could be just enough different to work well in someone else's bike, but again I'd be skeptical of that.

 

My old basket is available for this trial if anyone wants to try it. If anyone is close enough to me, I'd be willing to do the work.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Joe

 

I was involved in that discussion and I think I suggested it in one thread somewhere, maybe Cougar suggested it somewhere also. In any event, while it seems a good suggestion, possibly by the time a person got a basket that worked, the shipping costs back and forth may not be worth the effort???

 

I've suggested to Scott Harrison that since it appears unlikely Yamaha will try more than one basket thru the dealer, perhaps they'd entertain providing me directly with a basket and I'd swap it out myself.... his reply was " I am afraid this is not something we will negotiate or consider ".

 

He is still pushing for my VIN number so I think I will provide it and see what comes of that.

 

In any event, I'm eager to try this MotorKote product. If it does like others report, that might be all that is necessary to achieve an acceptable level of "whine".

[wolfman1]

This is all I could get. I had to take this info to my dealer who said " I didn't know that was even in there". He looked it up but wopuldn't let me see it.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

 

Steve

 

NHTSA Item Number:638088

Service Bulletin #:M2002013

Replacement #:

Vehicle/Equipment Make:YAMAHA Vehicle/Eqipment Model:YAMAHA Model Year:n/a

Mfg Component Code:102000 POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION

Date of Bulletin:2002-06-14 Date Added:2002-12-10

Summary:SUBJECT REGARDING TRANSMISSION FAILURE ANALYSIS. *TT

[LilBeaver]

Does anyone have a copy of this?

 

I called my local dealer - they have been pretty helpful with everything I have needed (not just with my RSV; I've dealt with them enough that 2 of the 3 service writers know me by name) and the service guy I talked to said that they are not supposed to release the tech bulletin's to the public BUT when he got some time later he would look it up and let me come in and take a look at it.

If I can get a copy of it, I'll definitely let you know.

 

[calperin]

:sign20: ... I've been trying that.... over the past year I think I've boughten 3 different helmets and every day I ride, I change them.... from one position to another (the shelf to my head) ... :rotf:

 

NO NO NO.... Did you got the YAMAHA NO WHINE HELMET????

 

THAT IS THE ONLY ONE YOT (YAMAHA OFFICE TRANSPORT) NOT WHINE APPROVED.

 

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

:rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf::rotf:

[SilvrT]

NO NO NO.... Did you got the YAMAHA NO WHINE HELMET????

 

THAT IS THE ONLY ONE YOT (YAMAHA OFFICE TRANSPORT) NOT WHINE APPROVED.

 

 

 

hahahaha.... I will have to email that Scott guy and ask him about this.... :rotf:

[SilvrT]

I called my local dealer - they have been pretty helpful with everything I have needed (not just with my RSV; I've dealt with them enough that 2 of the 3 service writers know me by name) and the service guy I talked to said that they are not supposed to release the tech bulletin's to the public BUT when he got some time later he would look it up and let me come in and take a look at it.

If I can get a copy of it, I'll definitely let you know.

 

 

Take that hidden surveillance camera with ya ! *snikker*

 

Of course they won't let the public see them... that would open a major can of worms if we "really knew" what goes on in the "back room" :eek:

[V-4 Vendetta]

I would think there would be a lot more to it than just "machine work". It would require not only that but also a lot of testing to ensure it would work all the time. And then there's the issue of ensuring that enough customers could be had to keep the cost to a figure that the market could bear. It's a "business opportunity" that would require a solid and well researched business plan and my gut feeling is that the business plan would prove it not worthwhile. On the flip-side, if it was, wouldn't one think that someone, even Yamaha, would have done this??

 

Winter Olympics??? never heard of it....

You mean the same Yamaha that still puts cassette decks in Ventures?

[SilvrT]

You mean the same Yamaha that still puts cassette decks in Ventures?

 

heh ... *slaps forehead* ... silly me! ... DOH ! where's my BRAIN???

 

:rotf: