Response from Yamaha Canada re: Clutch Basket

[SilvrT]

Following is for anyone's FYI ... feel free to comment.

 

Email I sent to Yamaha Customer Service Dept

I have a 2006 RSMV. It has an extremely annoying whine/chirp coming from the clutch basket. I have had a local dealer install an "I" basket under warranty. This has not corrected the problem. The dealer told me that it could only be done one time regardless of whether it corrected it or not.

This is not satisfactory to me. I have been in contact with many other RSV/RSMV owners who have had it replaced several times until they got a basket that reduced the whine/chirp to an acceptable level. I would like to know if Yamaha will look after this problem for me.

Response I received

I am writing in response to your e-mail regarding your RSMV Yamaha motorcycle.

Yamaha introduced this model to critical acclaim. I can record your concerns but based on the information you provided I would encourage you to continue driving and enjoying your motorcycle without hesitation. All motorcycles have inherent, and different, engine noises. We have, in some cases, replaced clutch baskets and in many cases the noise remains unchanged, and in some cases increases the noise.

These models have an inherent engine noise that is considered normal and may be augmented by the type of helmet a person wears or accessories they have on the motorcycle. Do you wear a half helmet? We consider this to be a characteristic of this model and would not repeatedly change clutch baskets. Your comments will be kept on file if you send me your serial number and you will be contacted in the unlikely event that time, and product monitoring, indicate this issue requires further investigation.

Sincerely,

Yamaha Motor Canada Ltd.

Scott Harrison

Manager, Consumer Relations

[Kregerdoodle]

So basically, "to freakin bad!!"

[Dave77459]

I love that your wearing a half helmet or not influences the amount of noise it makes.

 

Dave

[utadventure]

Sounds like a cop out to me.

 

If as he says, "These models have an inherent engine noise that is considered normal", why isn't it consistent with all of the bikes. Instead, some have it, others have it worse, while some don't seem to have it at all.

 

Thing back to the '70s Dodges - their starters had a distinct, inherent noise - ALL OF THEM. You could tell a Dodge starting up from blocks away.

 

Dave

 

 

[LilBeaver]

Following is for anyone's FYI ... feel free to comment.

 

... Your comments will be kept on file if you send me your serial number ...

 

And we will make SURE to NOT honor any warranty replacement of the clutch basket again...

[Guest Boomerbiker]

So much for PR and a reminder that companies exist to make money first (GM excepted). I have owned two 06's and neither bike had the whine/chirp. I am not an engineer, but you would want to believe after an 11 year run they would design a fix. Not to promote Harley, but they had a problem with 5th gear on the 2009 Electra Glide, a whistling sound or something. The gear was redesigned for the 2010 model year bike to fix the problem. Sounds like a concern for the customer and the Harley reputation.

 

Yamaha is a large company. What's a few disgruntled motorcycle owners to them. A mere nuisance.

[utadventure]

Are there enough owners (probably on this site alone) that you could group together and file a class action suit? That might get their attention!! Better to fix a few bikes than to have a recall on all of them.

 

Dave

[SilvrT]

...and, I replied to Mr. Harrison....

 

Thanks for your speedy reply Scott.

In answer to your question, I wear a 3/4 helmet. I also have aftermarket mufflers that are much louder than the stock ones. Further, I have my "tunes" volume to 18 on the controller and even with all that, at certain rpm's, that whine is so bad it causes a headache. I have been riding for over 40 years and have had numerous motorcycles including a 1985 Venture Royale and a 1987 Venture Royale. I purchased the 2006 because I was so impressed by the quality of the '85 & '87. Unfortunately, the whine on this 2006 is pushing me to the point of selling it. When I do, I will most definately not be buying another Yamaha product.

Now, let me elaborate on information I have devulged from the mechanic that replaced the clutch basket.

He told me that this problem goes way back to the mid 90's and was occurring on models other than the RSV. He told me that in those days, they had to take dial gauge readings on the gear lash between the basket gear and the primary gear it meshes with. They would then send those readings to Yamaha and would receive a basket that provided a better gear lash, reducing or eliminating the whine. He told me that it is because neither components are manufactured as a "unit", subsequently, in many cases the gears don't mate 100% correctly, which causes the whine. He also told me that after so many, many cases of this it became a matter of eliminating the dial gauge readings and Yamaha would simply send out "any old" basket in hopes that it would make a difference. Sort of a "hit and miss" situation. Kindof a poor policy IMHO.

The simple fact that Yamaha has been changing out these clutch baskets in an effort to reduce or eliminate the whine tells me that Yamaha recognizes that it is much more than a simple "characteristic" and that in fact, it is a machining problem of some sort and that Yamaha is willing to try and correct it the only way they know how, which is to swap out the basket with an "I" basket. Having said that, it seems that this "I" basket is not always a sure-fire cure but the fact remains that Yamaha recognizes this "whine" to be a problem. Therefore, I feel that Yamaha should do all they can to "go the distance" to rectify the problem by providing me, the customer, with a clutch basket that mates properly with the primary gear so that there is minimal or no whine. I know this is possible because a) several owners that I know have had success and b) some RSV's, RSMV's and RSTD's produced have absolutely no whine at all and that simple fact itself suggests that it is not a "characteristic".

I had to chuckle at your comment of "encourage you to continue driving and enjoying your motorcycle ". How can one "enjoy" the ride with such an annoying sound ringing in their ear?

I await your further comments.

[SilvrT]

Sounds like a cop out to me.

 

If as he says, "These models have an inherent engine noise that is considered normal", why isn't it consistent with all of the bikes. Instead, some have it, others have it worse, while some don't seem to have it at all.

 

Thing back to the '70s Dodges - their starters had a distinct, inherent noise - ALL OF THEM. You could tell a Dodge starting up from blocks away.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

And Ford's had a power steering pump whine...all of them. Different vehicles have certain sounds and all of them have it so that makes it a characteristic of that vehicle type (make/model, etc). GM starters sounded different from Ford starters and different from Chrysler starters.... that was their "characteristic". The whine/chirp coming from the clutch basket gears on these bikes is not, IMHO, a characteristic and since Yamaha has been replacing them, under warranty, for years and years, it's obvious they also don't feel it to be "characteristic". I've never heard of Ford, GM, or Chrysler replacing the starters because of the sounds they made....unless of course it was "not characteristic".... go figure eh!

[LilBeaver]

Well, I am certainly interested as to what type of response, if any, you will get out of that! Well written and quite direct.

 

Thanks for sharing... I'll be looking for the update

[1BigDog]

Following is for anyone's FYI ... feel free to comment.

 

 

Response I received

Your comments will be kept on file if you send me your serial number and you will be contacted in the "unlikely" event that time, and product monitoring, indicate this issue requires further investigation.

Sincerely,

Yamaha Motor Canada Ltd.

Scott Harrison

Manager, Consumer Relations

 

Man, talk about being blown off......Unlikely.....means it aint gonna happen in our lifetimes:mad: Its amazing how a manager at a major company like Yamaha can be so patronizing. But then I got the same responses from Metzeler tire.

[dragerman]

So what’s the problem they gave you the solution! ... Change your helmet!!:rotf::rotf:How pathetic is that!

[SilvrT]

So what’s the problem they gave you the solution! ... Change your helmet!!:rotf::rotf:How pathetic is that!

 

:sign20: ... I've been trying that.... over the past year I think I've boughten 3 different helmets and every day I ride, I change them.... from one position to another (the shelf to my head) ... :rotf:

[eagleeye]

He might just find it interesting that you are posting the conversation on this forum.

BTW--Great job in your comunications.

 

Steve

[bigmo54]

I have talked to yamaha also but to fall on deaf ears.I wish there was a laywer that would take this on as class action.I have a 2006 also that is very hard to ride due to the noise.I have a 97 rstd that never makes a noise,its a shame yamaha takes this type of stand.

[LilBeaver]

I am a little bit curious about the idea of a law suit. I'm not looking to start anything with anyone on here but I have a few thoughts on this.

We, as consumers, have chosen to purchase and ride these machines. I'll admit that the whine on my bike can be bad at times... Strangely enough it seems that somedays it is barely there and somedays it is unbearable. BUT, honestly what would be the goal of a law suit? This is a common issue with the bikes. It is not a safety concern. The only 'problem' that seems to be present with it is that it is an annoying noise. So, in this (relatively) free market, if a consumer is unhappy with a product and the manufacture takes a stance that the consumer is unhappy with then it seems to me that the consumer should opt for a different product.

 

I think it would be different if the whine led to something failing, or if something failed and the company refused to fix it. But, I guess I just do not see where one could actually justify a law suit for this matter. UNLESS the suit was based on the unwillingness for Yamaha to uphold the warranty that they offer...

 

I DO think it is incredibly silly of Yamaha to NOT address this issue as it seems that in 10 years they could have figured something out.

 

Maybe the whine on my bike is real mild compared to some others in which I would be all over the dealer/Yamaha also to make it so that I could bear riding the bike OR hold my nose and replace the bike with a different make/model.

 

I love my RSV and am watching the miles climb up and already looking at the newer models to see if there is a color scheme that I like better than what I have so when I hit an acceptable mileage to turn my bike over and replace it I can.

 

Anyways, these are just my thoughts on this. I don't mean to hijack the thread but I think that we should not get too radical on the issue.

 

Again, I'm not trying to get into anything with anyone or push any buttons, just throwing this out there to make sure we stay in check.

[SilvrT]

I am a little bit curious about the idea of a law suit. I'm not looking to start anything with anyone on here but I have a few thoughts on this.

We, as consumers, have chosen to purchase and ride these machines. I'll admit that the whine on my bike can be bad at times... Strangely enough it seems that somedays it is barely there and somedays it is unbearable. BUT, honestly what would be the goal of a law suit? This is a common issue with the bikes. It is not a safety concern. The only 'problem' that seems to be present with it is that it is an annoying noise. So, in this (relatively) free market, if a consumer is unhappy with a product and the manufacture takes a stance that the consumer is unhappy with then it seems to me that the consumer should opt for a different product.

 

I think it would be different if the whine led to something failing, or if something failed and the company refused to fix it. But, I guess I just do not see where one could actually justify a law suit for this matter. UNLESS the suit was based on the unwillingness for Yamaha to uphold the warranty that they offer...

 

I DO think it is incredibly silly of Yamaha to NOT address this issue as it seems that in 10 years they could have figured something out.

 

Maybe the whine on my bike is real mild compared to some others in which I would be all over the dealer/Yamaha also to make it so that I could bear riding the bike OR hold my nose and replace the bike with a different make/model.

 

I love my RSV and am watching the miles climb up and already looking at the newer models to see if there is a color scheme that I like better than what I have so when I hit an acceptable mileage to turn my bike over and replace it I can.

 

Anyways, these are just my thoughts on this. I don't mean to hijack the thread but I think that we should not get too radical on the issue.

 

Again, I'm not trying to get into anything with anyone or push any buttons, just throwing this out there to make sure we stay in check.

 

Good point...and I agree with everything you say...including "I love my RSV"!

 

I believe Yamaha had an option... considering the clutch basket and the primary gears obviously weren't machined as a "unit" they could...

 

a) have both pieces re-made as a unit and machined for 99.99% accuracy in tolerances for proper gear lash so as no whine.

 

b) re-make a slightly different basket with a variance on the gear and hope that at least some of them would mate correctly with the existing primary.

 

Since the latter is of considerably less cost (inclusive of the work to install the replacement) in comparison to the former....they chose the latter. In doing so, they decided not to issue it as a recall but to only replace those who's owners "complained". After doing that many times over they then decided to only do it once (if they could get away with it) on each "complaint" thus the reason some get only one whereas others get 2,3, or 4 until eventually it's resolved.

 

there's that old saying..."the squeaky wheel gets the grease" ... dang but I feel squeaky today LOL!

[dragerman]

I have talked to yamaha also but to fall on deaf ears.I wish there was a laywer that would take this on as class action.I have a 2006 also that is very hard to ride due to the noise.I have a 97 rstd that never makes a noise,its a shame yamaha takes this type of stand.

Yes, however when push comes to shove Yamaha may say that your warranty contract is with the Dealer you bought the bike from and not them, check the fine print on your warranty agreement. You have no contract with Yamaha and would have to file a ‘Statement of Claim’ against the Dealer and the Dealer would in turn have to file against Yamaha. However I must say that when listed on an action anyways Yamaha reps sure look silly standing in front of a judge explaining why they would spend more in time and money defending an action that they are ultimately responsible for anyways then to fix the problem in the first place... especially when the solution is cheaper then their defense and you can prove your claim! (Don’t ask me how I know!)

[RandyR]

I'm actually surprised that the noise isn't really an indication of something-somewhere wearing at an elevated rate. Noise is caused by vibration. Vibration causes wear (or vice versa), and metal fatigue, which I would think would lead to component failure. Maybe thats happening, but just takes so long, that its not something the normal owner is going to see because the engine is built so strong.

[ken]

Just when I though my mind was made up for a new RSV this post comes up and I start rethinking it all aver again.

[SilvrT]

Just when I though my mind was made up for a new RSV this post comes up and I start rethinking it all aver again.

 

In the couple of years or so that I have been on this site, I'd guess that this topic is one of the most "talked about". Sorry if this discourages you but let me share this with you....

 

I owned an '87 before this '06 and I read all the threads and posts associated to this "clutch whine" and that didn't stop me from buying the '06 nor will it now stop me from riding it until I can't ride it any longer. Having said that, I for one, am not about to "give up and die" in the persuit to get rid of the whine in my scoot. In the meantime, I am living with it and if I never find a cure, I will continue to live with it because, quite simply, it's one heck of a great bike and nothing else out there can match it IMHO. Now, I've said this before and I will say it here again... there is only one other bike I would consider but I would need another 15-20 grand to own that one.

[Shamue]

I would suggest you post the Yamaha Reps, email and all of us that have a noisy clutch that want corrective action could email him. The numbers might help him realise there is a force out here that feels his responce was weak and numbers (people) make Yamaha stay in business.

[RandyR]

I think I'll go for a ride.....

 

[midnightventure]

I sometimes think that there should be a class action against all the Japanese manufacturers because they design the speedometers and odometers to be off. I know they design them that way because they are too good at designing for 100% to be off. I checked my odometer against

highway mileage markers on I44 coming home from the Hub. It was a half mile off in 10 miles. The speedometer is 5 off at 70. This has been real consistent on every Japanese bike I have had a chance to check with radar or GPS. My Sportster was within 1 MPH and all my 4 wheelers are also within 1 MPH.

[TEW47]

Both my'97 RSTD and my '07 RSV whine and I had the "I" basket put in the RSV. I wounder what Yamaha would have to say if someone could prove hearing loss in a lawsuit. When the "I" basket was put in there was no noise whatso ever for the first ten miles then it started to whine again.

 

tew47