Hydraulic clutch adjustments

[Seaking]

While I'm waiting for my new clutch upgrade to arrive, the OEM clutch is slipping a lot now.. I'm wondering if something is out of adjustment..

 

I don't fully understand how these clutches work or if they can be adjusted but here goes.

 

While traveling 70 mph in either 4th or 5th, if I come onto the throttle, the clutch slips badly.. Today for the fun of it, I just touched the clutch inwards a bit and the revs came up fast.. wow, not too much pressure.. but only when at 70 mph in 5th.. city street speeds and gears doesn't really have that effect..

 

Would I be lucky enough that there is a quick adjustment that can be made to make the clutch better?

 

The bike is still ride-able, just can't drop the hammer on it.. sigh

[V7Goose]

There is no adjustment possible. All of your symptoms are consistent with the weak factory spring, and it usually happens by 40,000 miles while the friction disks still measure 100% of the original factory spec (meaning they are not worn at all).

Goose

[Condor]

You might have air trapped in the line, and when the engine heats up the air it starts to expand forcing the slave to push on the rods just as if you were pulling on the lever. If you start to disengage by pulling on the lever just a tad, I suspect air, or a plugged expansion hole in the reserve/master. DOT 3 will expand when it gets hot, and if the small expansion hole is plugged the expaned fluid has no place to go and will also start pushing on the rod.

[Seaking]

Thanks to both, 47,000 miles on the bike and well, stuff is getting old.. for a 2006? lol.. I rides her hard I guess. Patiently waiting for the upgraded clutch kit to arrive.

 

Still, a pleasant ride today in the cold dry air.. (finally).. couldn't even risk trying to pass a slow poke on the back roads for fear of not being to drop the hammer to get out trouble, if you know what I mean...

 

BTW, what's the best kind of sand paper to cross hatch the steel plates with to take the shine off of them? grit, type etc?

 

Thanks again

[KiteSquid]

When was the last time you changed the clutch and brake fluids?

[Squidley]

BTW, what's the best kind of sand paper to cross hatch the steel plates with to take the shine off of them? grit, type etc?

 

 

I have used 400 grit wet/dry on a very flat surface, you dont need to go crazy, just take the glaze off. What clutch did you end up getting? I have had great luck with the PCW out of Schenectady NY.

[Seaking]

When was the last time you changed the clutch and brake fluids?

 

the clutch fluid was changed out (flushed) earlier this summer.. I never had a hyd clutch'd bike before so it didn't appear too odd to me when I noticed the fluid being all black and such.. Oh must be the special fluid colour they use for that huh??

 

Until someone pointed out to me that the clutch fluid was actually BRAKE fluid.. ooops! And what a huge difference it made when they flushed it.. Since then I've put over 10,000 miles on the bike without any probs.. it's only after I got back from my epic trip to PA that it started acting funny.. (and Mount Washington etc)..

 

Brake fluides were flushed out last fall..

[Seaking]

I have used 400 grit wet/dry on a very flat surface, you dont need to go crazy, just take the glaze off. What clutch did you end up getting? I have had great luck with the PCW out of Schenectady NY.

 

So just wrapping it around a large flat block will do, cross hatching it to take the shine off eh?

 

Yes, I ordered the PCW kit with new friction plates.. Might as well.. I've changed my oil after I got back from the big trip, without noticeable improvement.. And plan to do another oil change JUST before the clutch change over to get rid of any left over debris that might have come off the weakened clutch system now.

 

Mind you, riding in 40'F weather seems to have improved things a bit.. either the cold is affecting the clutch or it's just me too frozen to want to drop the hammer and cause it to slip lol..

[Squidley]

So just wrapping it around a large flat block will do, cross hatching it to take the shine off eh?

 

Yes, I ordered the PCW kit with new friction plates.. Might as well.. I've changed my oil after I got back from the big trip, without noticeable improvement.. And plan to do another oil change JUST before the clutch change over to get rid of any left over debris that might have come off the weakened clutch system now.

 

Mind you, riding in 40'F weather seems to have improved things a bit.. either the cold is affecting the clutch or it's just me too frozen to want to drop the hammer and cause it to slip lol..

 

 

If you have a large piece of glass or something VERY flat, thats what I would use. I actually set the sandpaper on the flat surface and swirl the plate on top of it in a circular motion. This is how I have done all of the clutch upgrades that I have, which is about a dozen now, with no issues.

 

I have installed all but one of them with the PCW kit, you wont have any problems with it

[Seaking]

If you have a large piece of glass or something VERY flat, thats what I would use. I actually set the sandpaper on the flat surface and swirl the plate on top of it in a circular motion. This is how I have done all of the clutch upgrades that I have, which is about a dozen now, with no issues.

 

I have installed all but one of them with the PCW kit, you wont have any problems with it

 

Thanks M8.. I just got the kit in the mail a few mins ago and going through the parts..

 

Never having seen the inside of the clutch housing before, I'm a little wee tad intimidated.. Go figure, I've installed jet engines, loaded munitions, ejection seats and so forth but a little clutch intimidates me LOL.. no OJT is the prob I think..

 

Kit came with a seal, 8 friction plates and concave plate.. I assume this is what they call the 'full size friction disk' from the kit that goes in all the way to the back.. this is gonna sound stupid but which way does it go on? Will it be readily apparent when I open this up and get started?

 

I'll be tackling this later today.. oooh eager to feel the power again!

[V7Goose]

That "concave plate" is the spring.

 

You didn't need new friction plates at all, but they won't hurt anything either. Just pay close attention to how it all comes out, follow their instructions, and you will find everything very easy. The toughest part of the job is cleaning off the old gasket.

 

But make darn sure you have the right torque wrench that goes as low as the torque spec - do NOT try to just guess at the right torque with a calibrated wrist on those bolts. If you do, 98% chance you will break one, and 110% chance you will weaken them if you don't break 'em.

 

Keep those old friction plates (or mail them to me if you are just gonna trash 'em). You will find they measure exactly the same as those new plates you got, and if you ever do actually wear out a clutch on that bike, you can put them right back in.

Goose

Edited August 28, 2009 by V7Goose

[Seaking]

That "concave plate" is the spring.

 

You didn't need new friction plates at all, but they won't hurt anything either. Just pay close attention to how it all comes out, follow their instructions, and you will find everything very easy. The toughest part of the job is cleaning off the old gasket.

 

But make darn sure you have the right torque wrench that goes as low as the torque spec - do NOT try to just guess at the right torque with a calibrated wrist on those bolts. If you do, 98% chance you will break one, and 110% chance you will weaken them if you don't break 'em.

 

Keep those old friction plates (or mail them to me if you are just gonna trash 'em). You will find they measure exactly the same as those new plates you got, and if you ever do actually wear out a clutch on that bike, you can put them right back in.

Goose

 

Many thanks, Goose. I read previous comments not to bother with the friction plates but for the extra few bucks, the peace of mind is worth it after what all I had gone through with this bike thus far this summer.. I'll be keeping them as 'spares' if nothing else should something else go wrong down the road..

 

Point noted on the torque wrench.. I have the proper one.. (click type)

 

Just to confirm, you DO have to drop the exhaust on the right side to do this job??

 

I'll be going out later today to start this task.. hopefully take it out tonight and make some noise in the frigid cold air.. (40'F last night lol) dayum.. what a diff from the 95'F in PA the other week!!

Edited August 28, 2009 by Seaking

[Bob Myers]

My preference for lapping a plate is a figure"8". Move the part in a 8 pattern, less likely to rub more off one side than the other. Low spot/high spots will show up after one or two passes

[V7Goose]

Many thanks, Goose. I read previous comments not to bother with the friction plates but for the extra few bucks, the peace of mind is worth it after what all I had gone through with this bike thus far this summer.. I'll be keeping them as 'spares' if nothing else should something else go wrong down the road..

 

Point noted on the torque wrench.. I have the proper one.. (click type)

 

Just to confirm, you DO have to drop the exhaust on the right side to do this job??

 

I'll be going out later today to start this task.. hopefully take it out tonight and make some noise in the frigid cold air.. (40'F last night lol) dayum.. what a diff from the 95'F in PA the other week!!

If you have a long ball-end allen wrench, especially one with a 3/8" drive for the ratchet, you do not need to do anything with the exhaust pipe

 

Frankly, I use those so much I strongly suggest you order a set from Harbor Freight if you don't already have a set. Not having to pull that pipe on this one job is worth it!.

Goose

[Seaking]

If you have a long ball-end allen wrench, especially one with a 3/8" drive for the ratchet, you do not need to do anything with the exhaust pipe

 

Frankly, I use those so much I strongly suggest you order a set from Harbor Freight if you don't already have a set. Not having to pull that pipe on this one job is worth it!.

Goose

 

Thanks Goose, I had a look at it again while going out to pick up wet / dry paper and thought, yeah.. ball ends will work.. no worries. Just have to careful torquing it..

 

Cheers.. heading out to change a clutch for the first time.. wish me luck lol

[Seaking]

My preference for lapping a plate is a figure"8". Move the part in a 8 pattern, less likely to rub more off one side than the other. Low spot/high spots will show up after one or two passes

 

Thanks Bob.. I'll keep that in mind when I do the plates in a little while from now..

 

Next time you hear from me, I should hopefully be home after a completed job.. if all goes well =)

 

Cheers

[raceman62race]

Just wondering before I get 40,000 miles on my scoot but does someone make an upgraded clutch spring that will last over the 40,000 miles or do you have to reinstall a new stock Yamaha spring?

[Bummer]

Just wondering before I get 40,000 miles on my scoot but does someone make an upgraded clutch spring that will last over the 40,000 miles or do you have to reinstall a new stock Yamaha spring?

I don't know how long they'll actually last. I really just know I want one. Soon. (Almost 38k miles.)

 

There are two. PCW racing, and Barnett. The Barnett is about $100 more than the PCW. The Barnett is coil spring, the PCW is diaphragm. Most folks seem to be using the PCW. I haven't heard anything bad about either one.

[Seaking]

Alrighty then.. yes, it is THAT simple to install, once you know what you're looking for and the heck they're referring to in the instructions.. Some of these instructions are written by people who know what THEY are talking about and assume you do too.. for the most cases, this is OK but for the uninitiated, it can be intimidating. However, there was nothing wrong with the PCW instructions, I simply didn't know what they were talking about lol.. I had never seen the inside of a clutch on a bike before.. Sprag clutches on a planetary gear box, easy. Bike clutch? man.. caught me there. But at the end of the day I have a new clutch installed and it's not leaking lol.. oooh bonus points there. The HARDEST part of the whole job was trying to figure out just what the heck they were referring to about the wire, and getting that last frikken washer disk out of the very back of the clutch housing.. oil had suctioned it right to the back of the housing lol.. grrr.

 

My first test ride however was mixed .. I got on the highway and dropped the hammer.. and dang, there it is again.. clutch slipping.. oh wait a tic.. that's not a slipping clutch causing me not to accelerate anymore.. that's the REV Limiter!! wow.. talk about hauling assets!! Caught me by surprise I have to admit. I now have to get used to the feel of the friction zone on this clutch.. the grip is harder, the zone much smaller.. it REALLY wants to engage quick now. I do have to be careful. I almost launched myself into a car in a parking lot.. sproing!! I had a LOT of control over the clutch in parking lots before changing it.. now? ouch. But man it's a lot smoother I found.. didn't feel like it wanted to jump much.. solid. But tight little friction zone..

 

Steel plates still had their cross hatch marks on them from previous sanding.. I'm not sure if that's 'factory' or someone else. The gasket seemed to have had a silicone caulk around it.. looked factory installed. The friction plates were very dark.. burnt looking. Of the steel plates, only one had any yellowing to it.. the others looked quite clean but none of them looked glazed what so ever. I had opted to swap out all of the friction plates for peace of mind but I can see what Goose was saying as it wasn't required..

 

70 INCH pounds of torque.. wow, that's NOT a lot of torque on those 10mm bolts.. has me somewhat niggly about it..

 

i did a couple highway runs and city runs with the new clutch and I can tell you that it seriously smoothed out the bike a lot! I'm guessing the plates were 'chattering' a lot causing odd sensations.. 5th gear cruising at highway speeds is SO much smoother now.. and I can actually accelerate properly in 5th.. (70 mph upwards.).. But drop it into 4th and drop the hammer.. fun =)

 

Thanks to PCW for the keen clutch and all of you here for the helping hand.. ! Much appreciated...

 

 

Cheers

[Squidley]

Good to hear you got it installed with no issues