Unhappy KAW-1700 Voyager thread

[frogmaster]

[ame=http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498478]Nice but dangerous: Kawasaki’s new 1700 Voyager- an owners 1500 mile road trip evalua - ADVrider[/ame]

 

[Lone Eagle]

WOW - not much love there. Good for him for posting his thoughts.

[Dave77459]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnbelles

Less than 2 weeks after I finished the above evaluation the fuel reporting system failed again. This time leaving me stranded on a major freeway in the rain. The fuel gauge showed over a gallon of gas remaining and the fuel monitoring system showed 60-80 mile range remining. Do not trust the electronics in the 1700 Voyager.

This is pretty much the case with most fuel gauge systems in motorcycles - they have a hard time being accurate because they don't have much experience designing them, because of the small amount of fuel, the way tanks are situated on bikes (high up) and the fact that bikes move around a lot. The best thing is to just trust the odo and know how far a bike can go on the fuel it has.

 

Interesting story, and the comments are as well. I found this one peculiar, since I haven't heard of gas gauge issues on our bikes. Is there one and I just haven't been paying attention?

 

Dave

[Squidley]

After seeing the Kawi 1st hand at the bike show this year, I wasn't impressed. Definitely a different feel on that site as to him posting his thoughts up. I haven't ridden one and I know that the RSV has more standard equipment and a better sounds system with 4 speakers instead of 2. I know I wont waste my time with riding it, I know some of the Kawi faithful were looking for this machine. Sounds like it might not be what they were looking for

[Skid]

A friend of mine just purchased a new blue and black Kawasaki Voyager. He hasn't had any of these problems yet, hopfully he doesn't. Pretty bike, but not a Venture....

[loehring]

I personally think, whether by design or luck, we have all landed on the nest overall bike you can get for the money. With PGR I ride with so many different people on so many different bikes it's hard to keep up. I think I am the only one who has NOTHING but good to say about my bike. It's really too bad Yamaha hasn't done a better job of marketing because they have built one hell of a bike. (1st and 2nd Gen)

[Yammer Dan]

BEST BANG for your BUCK is still 1st GEN!!!

[frogmaster]

What got my attention was first and second degree burns on both calves. YIKES

[ArticusMedicus]

It's disappointing to read that. I realty liked to looks of the new Kawi. I was excited over the prospect of a big bore metric touring machine with a fixed fairing and tack.

 

I am glad he posted his thoughts and experiences, I for one read what others think about a new product and I take it to heart.

I am also a big proponent of good customer service. It is a corner stone of a good product.

 

Thank you for providing this information.

[Dave77459]

I know some of the Kawi faithful were looking for this machine. Sounds like it might not be what they were looking for

 

Now I am imagining how it would be if Yamaha finally released a new version of the Venture, after so many years of people here desiring it, and it had problems like what was posted. There'd be much wailing and gnashing.

 

Dave

[Squidley]

Now I am imagining how it would be if Yamaha finally released a new version of the Venture, after so many years of people here desiring it, and it had problems like what was posted. There'd be much wailing and gnashing.

 

Dave

 

 

That would be very unfortunate, but it just seems like Yamaha doesn't listen to us. We'll see if they even re design it....I'm not holding my breath on that one

[Snarley Bill]

i almost bought an 09 nomad, which is basically the same bike as the voyager. after 4 hrs of comparitive research between the 08 nomad and the 09, the 08 won out hands down. so i went and bought it the next day. my big dislikes on the 09 were the belt drive, the 6th gear, totally to high and not needed, the over all looks were not as appealing. i like the traditional early nomad style bags better. the 09 is nice but just had to many cons. i really love this bike. it gets more attention and turns more heads then any bike i've ever owned. my only complaint so far was the really poor throttle responce and lack of power, which made synchronizing shifts smoothly, next to impossible. it was jetted very lean for pollution puposes. i added a cobra 2000r and it runs perfect now. it came alive and i don,t have to run the factory recommended 90 + octane any more.its not as smooth as a venture or a wing. a 1600 v- twin never will be even though it has a balance shaft. i still maintain if you want smooth touring stay away from a big twin. linda said it is very comfortable, but it ain't no wing. she said the floor boards make her feet tingle. she will never ride on it much anyway. this ones for me to go out and enjoy the solitude on.

[Snarley Bill]

That would be very unfortunate, but it just seems like Yamaha doesn't listen to us. We'll see if they even re design it....I'm not holding my breath on that one

i think a 3rd gen is in the works but put on hold do to the economy. looks like everyone will have to wait awhile. the v-max motor was'nt designed for the v-max. it's just a test bed. i think they priced it out of sight because they want experienced motorcyclists to buy it so yamaha can get knowledgable feed back, on maintenance and longevity of the new engine design. thats the way manufacturers test products in the real world.

[FreezyRider]

i think a 3rd gen is in the works but put on hold do to the economy. looks like everyone will have to wait awhile. the v-max motor was'nt designed for the v-max. it's just a test bed. i think they priced it out of sight because they want experienced motorcyclists to buy it so yamaha can get knowledgable feed back, on maintenance and longevity of the new engine design. thats the way manufacturers test products in the real world.

 

Well, you may be right.....but I don't think so. I think the next Yamaha touring bike (if there is one at all) will be a V-twin powered by the 1900 cc Stratoliner engine. It seems that there is a larger overall group of buyers for V-twin bikes than for V-4's. Plus, the cost of that engine is probably half or less of the cost of the 1800 cc V-Max engine. With the economy the way it is now, and the long term forecasts calling for at least 2 years before real recovery is felt, I think the manufacturers are either going to have to stay with current designs or build new models that are economically feasible.

 

After riding my buddie's Strat I'm not so sure that it wouldn't be a real winner with a true touring package. As long as they can keep that big engine cool and not fry the rider's legs I think it would be a good seller.

 

Joe

[OldBear]

Dang, and I thought the old FJR's got hot! Looks to me like another good argument for not buying a "first year" ANYTHING!! I maybe old fashioned, but I like someone else to do the beta testing for the factory instead of me:hurts:

 

For what its worth, big K also has a SERIOUS heat problem with the new Concours 14, up 'till now that was the HOTTEST bike to ride I'd ever heard of or seen.

[Snarley Bill]

Well, you may be right.....but I don't think so. I think the next Yamaha touring bike (if there is one at all) will be a V-twin powered by the 1900 cc Stratoliner engine. It seems that there is a larger overall group of buyers for V-twin bikes than for V-4's. Plus, the cost of that engine is probably half or less of the cost of the 1800 cc V-Max engine. With the economy the way it is now, and the long term forecasts calling for at least 2 years before real recovery is felt, I think the manufacturers are either going to have to stay with current designs or build new models that are economically feasible.

 

After riding my buddie's Strat I'm not so sure that it wouldn't be a real winner with a true touring package. As long as they can keep that big engine cool and not fry the rider's legs I think it would be a good seller.

 

Joe

joe, i have to disagree with you on this one big time. the strat is a nice bike but has nothing going for it to compete as a touring bike. the push rod, air cooled, non counter balanced engine is rather archaic for a top of the line tourer. it's a great cruiser and chopper motor. i had a warrior and it is basically the same engine just a slight amount smaller. it shook at various highway speeds like bad. even the wing engine is getting a total redesign. it will be high tech stuff, rumors are 2000 cc 6 speed with cylinders that cut out for more gas mileage. i can garrantee you yamaha wants to compete with honda and bmw for a chunk of the elite touring market, and it will be with the max engine when they do it. they did'nt put millions of dollars and 10 years of engineering in it just for a v-max. and then price it out of the average persons reach. it will be in yamahas 3rd gen touring bike. like i said last year, it won't look anything like the second gen. they will go for the younger generation market.

[FreezyRider]

joe, i have to disagree with you on this one big time. the strat is a nice bike but has nothing going for it to compete as a touring bike. the push rod, air cooled, non counter balanced engine is rather archaic for a top of the line tourer. it's a great cruiser and chopper motor. i had a warrior and it is basically the same engine just a slight amount smaller. it shook at various highway speeds like bad. even the wing engine is getting a total redesign. it will be high tech stuff, rumors are 2000 cc 6 speed with cylinders that cut out for more gas mileage. i can garrantee you yamaha wants to compete with honda and bmw for a chunk of the elite touring market, and it will be with the max engine when they do it. they did'nt put millions of dollars and 10 years of engineering in it just for a v-max. and then price it out of the average persons reach. it will be in yamahas 3rd gen touring bike. like i said last year, it won't look anything like the second gen. they will go for the younger generation market.

 

 

Ride a Stratoliner before you judge that engine. The warrior engine may look similar and be just a bit smaller, but the vibration you speak of doesn't exist on my buddies Strat.

 

I really am cynical of Yamaha's wanting to compete with Honda and BMW for the touring market. I think they are wanting to compete with Harley Davidson. That is why they made the 2nd gen a cruiser style bike. Just look at what Honda and BMW were producing in 1999 when the 2nd gen was introduced......not really even in the same market segment. Yes, they all are touring bikes. The Honda and Beemer are more futuristic in styling than the RSV. It is evident who Yamaha had their sights set on when they released the RSV, and I think that they will continue to try to get some of the HD market instead of trying to compete with the two companies who pretty much have the "modern styled" touring market all sewn up.

 

Of course, we could both be wrong and Yamaha could come up with something totally off the wall and make us both look like idiots!

[wizard]

Ouch! I have to wonder if this guy is diabetic, and has no feeling in his legs. It would be very difficult for me to hold my leg next to a heat source long enough to get a 2nd degree burn.

[wizard]

I test rode a Victory Vision on Saturday and put about 60 miles on it. Its a nice ride and smooth for a V-Twin. And it has enough power to make it seem quick. But, at a cost of $27,000 OTD, I remembered why I bought my Venture, and love it so much.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

 

I really am cynical of Yamaha's wanting to compete with Honda and BMW for the touring market. I think they are wanting to compete with Harley Davidson. That is why they made the 2nd gen a cruiser style bike.

.........It is evident who Yamaha had their sights set on when they released the RSV, and I think that they will continue to try to get some of the HD market instead of trying to compete with the two companies who pretty much have the "modern styled" touring market all sewn up.

Of course, we could both be wrong and Yamaha could come up with something totally off the wall and make us both look like idiots!

 

Respectfully, I disagree. Yamahas marketing and engineering people must know that the RSV is not a competitor to HD's ElectraGlide. Neither is the Royal Star Tour Delux a competitor to Harleys Road King.

 

Of course, it depends on your idea of competition.

 

I dont think many Electraglide owners, ( me excluded ) ever considered the RSV as a viable option. Why do I say that? Heres why: Of all the hundreds of ElectraGlide owners that I personally know, not one has said hey, I might wanna buy one of those Yamahas.

 

Your kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

 

What I'm saying is that HD has that market 'sewn up'. Loyal HD owners are not normally looking at Yamahas the next time they want to upgrade. No one ever tattoos the word Yamaha across their chest or bicep. Harley owners do, all the time.

 

What Yamaha did, is to take the overall looks and feel of the mid and late 90's model touring Harley FL's, and make something similar. ( they already had a V4 motor that would work, with some tweaking) Now they had a touring product that they can sell to the existing metric riders who prefer the 'tuning fork' brand. Harley-Davidson sells more ElectraGlides in a week than Yamaha sells Ventures in a year.

 

Thats NOT competition!

 

I may get slapped up side the head for this little ditty, but I for one hope that Yamaha does NOT market a 3rd gen Venture. I'm happy with it the way it is, except for the cassette player, and even that is removable. If they come out with a 3rd edition, then suddenly, the trade in value of all the 2nd gens will be in the sewer, just like it is with the 1st gens now. ( no disrespect intended, but when is the last time a 1st gen sold for more than two or three thousand?)

 

One thing that keeps the aftermarket happy, is LOTS of customers. If the bike ceases production, then suddenly the Royal Star aftermarket will begin to stagnate. The aftermarket companies like to see MORE customers every year for their products, not LESS. Even the OEM parts supply will begin to dry up in a few years.

 

Let the metric makers self-obsolete their own crotch-rockets into oblivion. I prefer a long production run and a healthy aftermarket for the long-term cruisers that I ride.

 

Think of it this way. Its the year 2015 and you're riding your 2000-something Venture across the great state of Kansas. Something happens and it quits running. You have it towed to the nearest dealer in Rooster Poop, Kansas.

 

The dealer says sure, they have the part you need, since the bike is still in production...OR...the dealer says, nope...it will take 2 weeks to get that part, they quit making that bike 5 years ago and they dont stock that stuff any more.

 

Ask any 1st gen rider about service and parts availability on the road.

 

If you want high performance, big engines, modern styling, and latest technology, buy a GoldWing. Modern technology costs big bucks though...go price a new one. Over 20 large!

 

 

I'm perfectly happy to still be riding a current model affordable Venture, thank you very much!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2009 by tx2sturgis

[MAINEAC]

Ouch! I have to wonder if this guy is diabetic, and has no feeling in his legs. It would be very difficult for me to hold my leg next to a heat source long enough to get a 2nd degree burn.

 

Good point Wiz... I rented an Ultra a few years ago and got stuck in Ft. Lauderdale traffic and was standing up at red lights cuz the crossover pipe was burning my inner thigh... Finally I had to jump off the thing at a gas station and thought I must of had a burn of some kind but when I dropped my drawers I had nothing... And that pain was pretty intense..

[Snarley Bill]

Ride a Stratoliner before you judge that engine. The warrior engine may look similar and be just a bit smaller, but the vibration you speak of doesn't exist on my buddies Strat.

 

I really am cynical of Yamaha's wanting to compete with Honda and BMW for the touring market. I think they are wanting to compete with Harley Davidson. That is why they made the 2nd gen a cruiser style bike. Just look at what Honda and BMW were producing in 1999 when the 2nd gen was introduced......not really even in the same market segment. Yes, they all are touring bikes. The Honda and Beemer are more futuristic in styling than the RSV. It is evident who Yamaha had their sights set on when they released the RSV, and I think that they will continue to try to get some of the HD market instead of trying to compete with the two companies who pretty much have the "modern styled" touring market all sewn up.

 

Of course, we could both be wrong and Yamaha could come up with something totally off the wall and make us both look like idiots!

darn joe your making this hard for me. you can't make a v-twin half way smooth with out counter balancers. a v-twin has a very poor balance factor . harley went with counter balancers and a rubber mounted motor. a v-twin with the bad primary balance that they have has has a much shorter life span, even with balancers. you may not feel the vibes but they are always there for the bearing loads. in other words the motor feels them. you would be lucky to make 100,000 miles with a v-twin. i love v-twins but it is a very poor engine design and always has been. ducati has come close with a 90 degree twin but they ar not pretty motors. alot of engines use offset crank pins to increase the v angle internally like a 1400 intruder but they still shake. the name of the game is to sell bikes. honda is the no. one touring bike whether you like it or not. they have sold millions. they are not no. 1 because they aren't the best tourer out there. yamaha would love to be right up there and i still think they are going to shoot for that. i have two great v-twins right now and i love them both. but they aren't even close to being in the same league with my wing. not even half way there. the wing guys have a 500,000 mile club with quite a few members. i am faithful to all my bikes for what they are. but i can't make them something they are not. no matter how much i like them. i still say yamaha is shooting to compete in the touring elite market. it may not be what us old timers are hoping for, but like any business yamaha has to go where the money is. the dealer i bought my wing from told me he sells an average of thirty wings a month. now if you owned a company and were out to make a buck, would'nt that be your goal?

[Snarley Bill]

Ride a Stratoliner before you judge that engine. The warrior engine may look similar and be just a bit smaller, but the vibration you speak of doesn't exist on my buddies Strat.

 

I really am cynical of Yamaha's wanting to compete with Honda and BMW for the touring market. I think they are wanting to compete with Harley Davidson. That is why they made the 2nd gen a cruiser style bike. Just look at what Honda and BMW were producing in 1999 when the 2nd gen was introduced......not really even in the same market segment. Yes, they all are touring bikes. The Honda and Beemer are more futuristic in styling than the RSV. It is evident who Yamaha had their sights set on when they released the RSV, and I think that they will continue to try to get some of the HD market instead of trying to compete with the two companies who pretty much have the "modern styled" touring market all sewn up.

 

Of course, we could both be wrong and Yamaha could come up with something totally off the wall and make us both look like idiots!

hey joe, one other thing the harley market is in big trouble right now. the fad is passing and the market is flooded with them. harley made alot of bad loans and like everyone else is in deep doo doo. that would not be a good act to follow. even tho we disagree i still love ya buddy. maybe we should bet a meal at culpeppers on this. i'm going to win.

[MAINEAC]

I really am cynical of Yamaha's wanting to compete with Honda and BMW for the touring market. I think they are wanting to compete with Harley Davidson. That is why they made the 2nd gen a cruiser style bike. Just look at what Honda and BMW were producing in 1999 when the 2nd gen was introduced......not really even in the same market segment. Yes, they all are touring bikes. The Honda and Beemer are more futuristic in styling than the RSV. It is evident who Yamaha had their sights set on when they released the RSV, and I think that they will continue to try to get some of the HD market instead of trying to compete with the two companies who pretty much have the "modern styled" touring market all sewn up.

 

You're right... GWs, BMWs, and 1st Gen Ventures are "Standard" Touring bikes due to the rider position... HDs, RSVs, Victory Visions, and now the Voyager are Touring "Cruisers"... It's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned... I'm amazed at how many people don't see that.. While the GWs are fine bikes with my knees I don't think I could do 1500 mile days on it like I have several times on my RSV..

[FreezyRider]

You're right... GWs, BMWs, and 1st Gen Ventures are "Standard" Touring bikes due to the rider position... HDs, RSVs, Victory Visions, and now the Voyager are Touring "Cruisers"... It's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned... I'm amazed at how many people don't see that.. While the GWs are fine bikes with my knees I don't think I could do 1500 mile days on it like I have several times on my RSV..

 

And that is exactly what I trying to say and didn't do it too well. I was so unclear that tx2sturgis thought I meant that Yamaha was trying to woo Harley Riders. NOPE, that's not what I meant. I still think that Y knows they can't compete with the GW's headstart in the market unless they come in WAAAAAAY under Honda' price. And that is going to be hard to do with a bike that has the V-max engine in it plus a bunch of other upgraded technology.

However, there are a bunch of Harley "wannabees" out there who would like to buy an Ultra but can't afford it. A Strat-based machine with a fairing, trunk, etc would come in at probably 65-70% of the cost of the Ultra, and all these guys would have a shot at swinging that. I don't know how many times I have read here that current RSV owners looked at both the Ultra and the RSV and bought the RSV because of price and warranty.

I don't expect that any (or many) HD riders would buy a Yamaha no matter what the price. People who tattoo a brand of bike on themselves.....well I better not go down that alley.

 

Hey Snarley, what exactly is the bet? Yamaha releases a new Venture based on the V-Max engine gets you the meal? And a new one based on a v-twin gets me the meal? I'll go for that.....and I won't be a bit mad if I lose!!! However, if I should win the meal will be in Indianapolis, not St Charles! Will that Nomad make it that far?

 

Joe