Question for anyone who thinks they are an "expert" motorcyclist.

[GG54172]

I am currently taking the RiderCoach training to become an MSF instructor. One of our homework assignments involved a discussion of "how to setup the bike for a turn". MSF has a technique that involves the acronym SLPR. Slow Look Press Roll.

 

Reference page 21 of MSF's BRC Handbook for more information.

http://msf-usa.org/CurriculumMaterials/BRC_Handbook_Vs7.1_noprint.pdf

The assignment was handed out on a sheet of paper and looked like this:

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RiderCoach prep assignment

Report

Slow Look Press Roll

-or-

Slow Look Roll Press

1.) Explain the difference between SLOW, LOOK, PRESS, ROLL (SLPR) and SLOW LOOK ROLL PRESS (SLRP)

 

2.) Which technique do you use and why?

 

3.) In your opinion, which is the best technique for the novice, and why?

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Any experts here care to answer? How do you negotiate a turn? How should a novice prepare to negotiate a turn?

My response is posted below.

[GG54172]

Greg Gill

MSF RCC Prep Assignment

 

1.) Explain the difference between SLOW, LOOK, PRESS, ROLL (SLPR) and SLOW LOOK ROLL PRESS (SLRP)

 

These two techniques are both used as strategies for a rider to negotiate a corner. SLPR allows the rider to enter the curve before applying throttle. SLRP allows the rider to accomplish all steps required for turning before entering the turn.

 

2.) Which technique do you use and why?

 

While piloting my motorcycle to work this morning I found that I use the SLPR technique. This is probably from the first time I took the ERC and started riding on the street. It was very difficult and took me several turns to successfully perform a SLRP technique through a corner. Once I untrained and retrained myself, I did not find a whole lot of difference in curve negotiation. One technique did not seem "better" than the other.

 

There are several instances on familiar roads, where I can see through the entire curve well before entering the curve, and where the proper curve speed is the legal speed limit that I do not slow. For these curves I do not have to reduce the throttle position, but rather I can maintain a constant throttle throughout the maneuver. This is probably the closest I come to the SLRP technique during normal riding.

 

3.) In your opinion, which is the best technique for the novice, and why?

 

As a rider who has actively employed the SLRP technique for a total of 18 miles in one day I can see some of the benefits of this technique. All required actions for turning are accomplished before turning, and while the bike was upright. There is no weight transfer front to back while negotiating the corner. However, I found the weight transfer before turning unsettling.

 

As I was looking through the corner I would roll and the bike's weight would shift, and my focus point shifted as well, and my instinct was to look back where I was going (straight line). If I press then roll, the action of the throttle did not appear to shift my focus from the end of the turn as much. With practice I am certain that I could do either method comfortably.

 

For general street riding, I feel that SLPR is a better technique for the novice. If a rider enters a turn with throttle already applied and finds they are traveling too fast, the removal of throttle will cause the weight of the bike to shift forward, creating a larger torque response on the handlebars, and unless more force is applied by the rider, the bike will straighten up. Conversely, if no throttle is applied, the rider decides they are traveling too fast, and applies no throttle or brakes for the curve, there is no weight shift.

[SilvrT]

Personally I would think a novice should use the SLPR method and I'd guess I use that most times; however, I find the SLRP method more used when I am entering a curve that I cannot initially see all the way but when I can and I'm not yet into the corner, I have Slowed and Looked, then I will Roll (to speed up coz I know I can take it faster) and then Press to turn into the corner. I probably also use the SLRP (excluding the "S") when negotiating a corner that I am familiar with, assuming I am approaching that corner at a speed less than I know I can take it at.

 

SLPR would be similar to driving a cage where you slow for the curve, start the turn, and then power thru and out of the turn.

 

Did I make any sense out of that? LOL

[dynodon]

I would think the recommended SLPR would be the safest at all times. You want to be AT your cornering speed and set up before you consider adding more speed or reducing or stopping your slowing rate.

 

Adding power and then turning may set you up to overdrive the corner and have to get off the gas quicker and at a higher rate. Thus making a smooth turn more of a problem.

 

I do a lot of driver education high speed track days in cars, and fully believe in setting up for the turn before getting into the turn. scrub speed, evaluate the turn, get the suspension set, and get ready to press back into the throttle before the apex.

[Renne]

Me thinks better not to slrp as slpr may result 'specially after sark!

 

Renne

[Marcarl]

In Canada we may be a bit different and use different language.

I was taught to:

1) Srub off some speed

2) Judge the curve, and setup to the outside of the curve, not to be confused with the outside of the lane.

3) If it's a right hand curve, your head is up, you look right, you push on the right handle bar,,,, and then you'll automatically lean right and go right.

4) If you get in trouble,,,remember,,the throttle is your friend, so use it and push harder.

5) At the apex,, the center of the curve, you need to be cutting the corner off and rolling on some throttle in order to stay in your lane at the end of the process.

 

 

Make sense???? it works, if you use it and train yourself for it.

[lonestarmedic]

I have always used S-L-P-R. I set for the corner by slowing down and choosing my angle of entry to hit the apex of the curve correctly. I look through the curve as much as possible to judge conditions at the same time. Then I press the handlebar on the inside of the curve a bit down and forward. This sets the countersteer. When I hit the apex of my arc I then roll on the throttle and use centrifugal force to set the suspension into the pavement as I sweep out of the curve. Speed through a corner actually helps to incress the friction on the pavement. In fact, I find that if I happen to hit a corner a bit too fast, I can press down and roll the throttle to sweep on through. One of the biggest mistakes a novice can make is to come upright and brake during a curve. Unless you run the ragged edge of traction around a curve, you can counter your instinct to brake and lean over a bit more. I agree with Don, the throttle is your friend. I also use my rear brake more in setting for corners. I have always termed it as "trailing the brake" This avoids the weight transfer that the front brakes can cause. Now, I have also de-linked my brakes as it tends to help my riding style.

 

Of course this information comes from a guy that raced dirt track cars and used to swing the rear end out and "back" into a corner. Your peg-scraping may vary.

 

I just realized that I do indeed use S-L-R-P when I enter a curve less than about 45 degrees.

JB

Edited August 13, 2009 by lonestarmedic

[rod]

For the BRC it is SLPR. This lets the student separate the actions, one thing at a time. When you do the demo; slow early, look early, set up for the corner and roll on the throttle. With practice they will shorten the timing but remember one thing at a time while they learn a new skill. Good luck with the RCP Rod

[SaltyDawg]

It would seem to me that SLRP could be counterproductive to entering a turn. If you are going to "ROLL" onto the throttle before "Pressing" then why slow down in the first place?

[SilvrT]

It would seem to me that SLRP could be counterproductive to entering a turn. If you are going to "ROLL" onto the throttle before "Pressing" then why slow down in the first place?

 

maybe to "size up" the curve to see if it's going to be easier or harder than initially anticipated...??

[SaltyDawg]

Funny thing, I have been riding MC's for 32 years and never paid no mind to how I entered into a corner. I went to 2 MSF courses in the mid 80's and have over 200,000 miles seat time. On the ride home yesterday I paid particular attention to how I set up and entered corners and I consistently did the SLLR (Slow, Look, Lean, Roll). It felt very uncomfortable pushing on the handlebar. Not a natural manuver or feel for me.

 

I know that the MSF course has changed over the years (decades) and I can't honestly say that they taught us that way but it's the way I have ridden all my life. I do know that they taught us to use the rear brake first and I can tell you I went through a lot of rear brake pads on my first RSV before I retrained myself to use the front brake first. Now I only use the rear brake when needing to stop fast.

[SilvrT]

Speaking of brakes, I use both except in a corner..then only the rear.

 

Speaking of leaning, I rarely lean my body to maneouver a corner, I always counter steer. About the only time I lean is when it's a real tight corner and I'm taking it quite fast...then I lean to reduce the lean angle of the bike. Dunno if this is right or wrong...it's just how I do it.

[saddlebum]

I am afraid I have never been subjected to all these terms and acronyms. I ride my bike like it is an extension of my own body , I do not have a specific time to look as I am looking constantly at all times. I negotiate a turn by dropping speed into the turn and powering through and out of the turn. As mentioned early I seldom lean with the bike,I think because the bike is top heavy to start with a simply lean the bike under me while i myself retain a relative upright posture during a normal turn. having said that I may lean some with the bike depending on how fast i am going through a turn.

[SilvrT]

I am afraid I have never been subjected to all these terms and acronyms. I ride my bike like it is an extension of my own body , I do not have a specific time to look as I am looking constantly at all times. I negotiate a turn by dropping speed into the turn and powering through and out of the turn. As mentioned early I seldom lean with the bike,I think because the bike is top heavy to start with a simply lean the bike under me while i myself retain a relative upright posture during a normal turn. having said that I may lean some with the bike depending on how fast i am going through a turn.

 

Your comment about "relative upright posture" made me think a bit (yes, sometimes I do that LOL) .... when I'm taking a corner, I do tend to keep my head relatively upright, meaning I keep my head and thus my eyes as perpendicular to the road as possible ... not sure why I do this other than to keep the "scene" in normal balance so to speak.

[loehring]

Speaking of brakes, I use both except in a corner..then only the rear.

 

Really?? I am exactly the opposite. The only times I use the rear brake are coming to a stop or as a trail brake for extreme low speed. I go into corners with the front only. SLPR is the only way to do it if you're riding hot. "Slow" moving to the outside of the curve to set up, "Lean" to position your body for the curve, "Push" (or counter steer) into the inside of the curve and "Roll" on the throttle at the apex and back out to the outside. (Outside/Inside/Outside) The only time I would throttle earlier than that would be if I was too slow into the curve and then that would be an adjustment not the planned process.

 

Just my .02

[SilvrT]

Really?? I am exactly the opposite. The only times I use the rear brake are coming to a stop or as a trail brake for extreme low speed. I go into corners with the front only. SLPR is the only way to do it if you're riding hot. "Slow" moving to the outside of the curve to set up, "Lean" to position your body for the curve, "Push" (or counter steer) into the inside of the curve and "Roll" on the throttle at the apex and back out to the outside. (Outside/Inside/Outside) The only time I would throttle earlier than that would be if I was too slow into the curve and then that would be an adjustment not the planned process.

 

Just my .02

 

I'd hate to see what would happen, using the front only going into a corner, if you hit a slick spot. I use the front brake ONLY as a "trail" brake for the rear and to provide the extra stopping power when I need to slow down real fast, or when coming to a complete stop but I would NEVER use my front brake in a corner. Maybe I'm reading you wrong tho... "going into a corner" ??? Do you mean "approaching" the corner BEFORE you set up for the turn? ... if so, then yes, front would be used by me too but not without the back also. I find the front dives too much if I only use the front brake.

[loehring]

I'd hate to see what would happen, using the front only going into a corner, if you hit a slick spot. I use the front brake ONLY as a "trail" brake for the rear and to provide the extra stopping power when I need to slow down real fast, or when coming to a complete stop but I would NEVER use my front brake in a corner. Maybe I'm reading you wrong tho... "going into a corner" ??? Do you mean "approaching" the corner BEFORE you set up for the turn? ... if so, then yes, front would be used by me too but not without the back also. I find the front dives too much if I only use the front brake.

Yes I do mean on the approach and as I enter. Once in the corner I come off the brake. We're probably saying the same thing. I just don't use the back brake much. I will use it to maintain a consistent speed through the corner if I shift but then again that's an adjustment not a planned procedure. I also probably have the front a little stiffer because I don't really have a dive problem.

 

I guess maybe we're getting a little off topic.

[rod]

How are you doing with your RCP prep? When/where are you doing it? I had fun at mine but it is work getting everything just right. Good luck Rod

[Yammer Dan]

Not being a expert I'm going to have to take a ride to figure this out!! I use a lot of front brake but all I'm sure about is my 84 would do 120 MPH in 3rd Gear according to its speedo! You got to know where the curves are then!!

 

Couldn't resist..