V7Goose's fault if

[BOO]

I don't make it to the rally in Harrison, AR.

 

I've read and read the articles about adjusting the float levels in several posts so I finally convinced myself I should at the very least check them. So I now have RSV parts strung all over two garages. I hope I remember where all them little parts go.

 

I'm mostly just kidding but I did take them apart and adjust the level and pretty much followed Goose's write up about it. I do wish he would correct the picture so that it shows the proper way of checking the floats.

 

Anyway mine were not to bad I guess,two of the floats were .22 and the other two were .28. I now have them adjusted to what I think is .34 if I am measuring them right.

 

I do not have the bike back together but I have a lot of confidence it will be fine. The thing I'm really looking forward to is the 10 percent increase in gas mileage that Goose promised.

 

BOO

[RedRider]

I hope the write up can walk a mediocre mechanic thru the procedure since I will be doing it (along with valve shim adjustment) as soon as the parts and tools arrive.

 

Good luck getting it back together.

 

RR

[Eck]

Hey Boo,

I think a cold six pack of Miller Light would be most helpful about now.......

Wish I was closer my friend..

[V7Goose]

I don't make it to the rally in Harrison, AR.

 

I've read and read the articles about adjusting the float levels in several posts so I finally convinced myself I should at the very least check them. So I now have RSV parts strung all over two garages. I hope I remember where all them little parts go.

 

I'm mostly just kidding but I did take them apart and adjust the level and pretty much followed Goose's write up about it. I do wish he would correct the picture so that it shows the proper way of checking the floats.

 

Anyway mine were not to bad I guess,two of the floats were .22 and the other two were .28. I now have them adjusted to what I think is .34 if I am measuring them right.

 

I do not have the bike back together but I have a lot of confidence it will be fine. The thing I'm really looking forward to is the 10 percent increase in gas mileage that Goose promised.

BOO

I promised????? Geeze, I'm goin' down now!

 

But actually, I think that your floats at .22 WERE a LOT off - that is 30% HIGHER than the shop manual specifies. So promises or not, I do think you'll get that 10%.

 

And I guess I'll take new pictures on the next one I do.

Goose

 

Oh, best remember that those air plenums that fit on top of the carbs WILL slide on and NOT try to push back up. I stress this here because a lot more experience has shown me that EVERY SINGLE TIME those air boxes want to spring back up when put back on top of the carbs, the rubber is caught someplace and buckled under the hose clamp. If you do not have that rubber neck caught on the neck of a carb, the box will fit nicely in place with ZERO movement, even as the hose clamps are tightened. Typically, the problem will be on the front carb; you need to push the plenum much further forward than you think to clear the front side of that carb and get it to slip into place without problems.

[BOO]

I promised????? Geeze, I'm goin' down now!

 

But actually, I think that your floats at .22 WERE a LOT off - that is 30% HIGHER than the shop manual specifies. So promises or not, I do think you'll get that 10%.

 

And I guess I'll take new pictures on the next one I do.

Goose

 

Oh, best remember that those air plenums that fit on top of the carbs WILL slide on and NOT try to push back up. I stress this here because a lot more experience has shown me that EVERY SINGLE TIME those air boxes want to spring back up when put back on top of the carbs, the rubber is caught someplace and buckled under the hose clamp. If you do not have that rubber neck caught on the neck of a carb, the box will fit nicely in place with ZERO movement, even as the hose clamps are tightened. Typically, the problem will be on the front carb; you need to push the plenum much further forward than you think to clear the front side of that carb and get it to slip into place without problems.

 

 

Thanks for the tip, I'm just about to that process. I was cleaning up some oil or I would have had the bike back together. Evidently the last time I had the Carbs off the bike I didn't get the drain lines on the air boxes and I have some oil to clean up but not much.

 

Thanks,

BOO

[Dave77459]

I do wish he would correct the picture so that it shows the proper way of checking the floats.

 

Perhaps these will help. They were taken Saturday while he adjusted my floats.

 

Dave

[V7Goose]

Perhaps these will help. They were taken Saturday while he adjusted my floats.

 

Dave

Sorry Dave, those don't help at all. Unfortunately, you took a picture of me measuring the WRONG side of the float when I was showing you the difference in the height between the fat side and the thin side. And that is the problem with my tech writeup. I took the pictures before I realized that the two sides of the float were different heights, so I stress that they should all be measured from the fat side, but my picture shows measuring the thin side!

Goose

 

BTW - did your gas mileage seem any better on the way back to the sauna (Houston)?

[BOO]

Whew, thought I was going to have to take the thing apart again but that is the way I understood it.

BOO

[Dave77459]

Sorry Dave, those don't help at all. Unfortunately, you took a picture of me measuring the WRONG side of the float when I was showing you the difference in the height between the fat side and the thin side. And that is the problem with my tech writeup. I took the pictures before I realized that the two sides of the float were different heights, so I stress that they should all be measured from the fat side, but my picture shows measuring the thin side!

Goose

 

BTW - did your gas mileage seem any better on the way back to the sauna (Houston)?

 

Well, at least the photos are colorful.

 

Regarding mileage, the news is not good--yet. It appears the mpg went down. I got 32mpg coming to Dallas, and 29ish going home. However, I think I had a tailwind coming, and I know I had a headwind going. It was also a good 10 degrees hotter going home... not sure what effect that has.

 

The other aspect is that I seem to have MUCH more power. Sunday I was monkeying with the gps, and when I went back to look at the speed-o, I was cruising easily at 85mph. Before, getting to 85 seemed an effort, and this was effortless. I suspect that I am hitting the gas harder, which means my mpg will decline.

 

I may or may not be getting better mileage, but Roxie is running much smoother and powerfully. I feel like it was a success.

 

Dave

[V7Goose]

Hmmmmm, if you have ANY effort at all hitting 85, it would seem that something else is wrong. And that would go with the very low MPG too. Even cranking hard and running an actual 80 all day should still be over 30.

 

All your plugs looked good, so there wasn't an obvious ignition problem. You need to bring that thing back here when you get a chance so we can try putting the scope on and check the strength of the spark. And I'd like to see what the exhaust gas analyzer shows us too. And besides those tests, I'd like to take both our bikes out and do a quick swap for a few miles to compare our impressions of the side-by-side performance.

 

Of course, I've said before that you really cannot get valid comparable MPG numbers on a motorcycle by just checking a tank or two, so maybe there isn't anything wrong at all! The BEST check to to run a tank side-by-side with another RSTD after carefully filling both tanks the same, then compare the amount of gas they take at the end of the ride. We could do that too, even tho mine is a Venture; if we keep the speeds down so the wind resistance isn't a big factor, we should still get a good comparison.

 

When ya coming back?

Goose

[RandyR]

Goose,

 

Have you tried the fuel level test using a clear tube again? That seems to be a standard test for other makes of MC also. The maintenance guide for my new Suzuki trail bike says to just use some clear tubing connected to the float bowl drain to see if the fuel level is even with the top of the bowl (at gasket line).

[V7Goose]

Goose,

 

Have you tried the fuel level test using a clear tube again? That seems to be a standard test for other makes of MC also. The maintenance guide for my new Suzuki trail bike says to just use some clear tubing connected to the float bowl drain to see if the fuel level is even with the top of the bowl (at gasket line).

No, I haven't, but I'm pretty certain it will work correctly if the engine is running - that will provide enough vibration and pulses in the fuel bowl (from the pump) to get the fuel to seek the correct level in the tube. I found it interesting to note that the same test in the tech manual for the antique 1st gen bikes specifies that the engine should be running for a bit, even though I didn't see that mentioned in the manual for the 2nd gen.

 

It hasn't been much interest to me to re-do that test, since every single bike I have checked by pulling the carbs has needed them adjusted anyway. And I feel a whole lot more confident with the measurement done at the float using the calipers. Besides, pulling the carbs has gotten real simple after doing so many of them! Well, maybe it's just simple 'cause I'm telling other folks what to do more than I'm doing it myself!!!!

[Dave77459]

When ya coming back?

Goose

 

I am planning frequent trips to Lubbock this fall, and you are not so far off the track. If you can put me up, almost any other Friday is doable.

 

I have a couple thoughts on mpg. One, I wonder of my rear brake is rubbing? I wouldn't have thought so, because it coasts fine. I just wonder because the pad is low (I ordered a new one, BTW).

 

Second, I saw in a post last night about oxygenated fuels, and that they reduce mpg. I wonder if I have been getting generally lower mileage because I live in Houston, and we are getting whacked with the clean-air stick. If anyone is getting oxygenated fuels, it is us. What do you think? I got much better mileage (including some 40s) when I was in Arkansas last fall. Of course, I wasn't driving fast, just enjoying the mountains.

 

Dave

[V7Goose]

I am planning frequent trips to Lubbock this fall, and you are not so far off the track. If you can put me up, almost any other Friday is doable.

 

I have a couple thoughts on mpg. One, I wonder of my rear brake is rubbing? I wouldn't have thought so, because it coasts fine. I just wonder because the pad is low (I ordered a new one, BTW).

 

Second, I saw in a post last night about oxygenated fuels, and that they reduce mpg. I wonder if I have been getting generally lower mileage because I live in Houston, and we are getting whacked with the clean-air stick. If anyone is getting oxygenated fuels, it is us. What do you think? I got much better mileage (including some 40s) when I was in Arkansas last fall. Of course, I wasn't driving fast, just enjoying the mountains.

 

Dave

Yes, you have that nasty gas down there, just like we do up here. It does reduce MPG numbers, but not to a huge percent. You should still be averaging at least in the mid 30s. But who knows for sure - I am just entering a bunch of receipts in my computer, and I find that a whole lot of my fill-ups in the last two months have been back down around 31-33 MPG. We'll just have to burn a tank or two together!

Goose

[Ponch]

We went from Houston to Waco and back this weekend. While we can only get the Smog gas is the metro areas, we were able to get the"good" stuff away from home. The MPG's were pretty close over several tanks.

[BOO]

It lives, it lives.

When I do anything major to the bike (yes to me this is major) I'm always concerned if the bike will actually run.

Okay after adjusting the floats, I went on a little test run, of course not near long enough to know for sure what to expect. 100.8 miles on about half secondary roads and the other half on interstates. Used 2.45 gals of gas so if I use someones math from another post then I must have got around 50 MPG but with my calculator it appears to be more like 41.1 MPG. About what I have been getting.

We are headed to Arkansas on Saturday so that should tell a little more about the gas mileage except we will be two up and loaded (the bike).

I will also note the plugs look lean and I,m getting a little popping on deceleration. Not to bad so I'm going to ride it as is. I'm also running with no washers (shims) on the carburetors.

Was it worth the effort? Don't know but it's always nice to have everything adjusted to the specs it was designed for.

BOO

[1sttenor]

It lives, it lives.

When I do anything major to the bike (yes to me this is major) I'm always concerned if the bike will actually run.

Okay after adjusting the floats, I went on a little test run, of course not near long enough to know for sure what to expect. 100.8 miles on about half secondary roads and the other half on interstates. Used 2.45 gals of gas so if I use someones math from another post then I must have got around 50 MPG but with my calculator it appears to be more like 41.1 MPG. About what I have been getting.

We are headed to Arkansas on Saturday so that should tell a little more about the gas mileage except we will be two up and loaded (the bike).

 

Hey you better watch that loaded operation. Some local "shiners" might think you found their still in AR!

[N3FOL]

I may need an 'Idiot's Guide Book on Float Adjustment'. Not sure how one can tell that your bike needs the float adjusted or not. Is there any decrease in performance?

[V7Goose]

I may need an 'Idiot's Guide Book on Float Adjustment'. Not sure how one can tell that your bike needs the float adjusted or not. Is there any decrease in performance?

Well, you only get symptoms if they are WAY out of adjustment, to the extreme. If they are WAY low, the engine can starve for fuel under high RPM and hard acceleration. If they are WAY high, you get gas from the overflow vents. In between those two extremes, a higher float level generally results is somewhat richer running at speed and lower fuel mileage.

 

The good news is that floats virtually never just go out of adjustment - the setting never changes unless the float is damaged - potentially cracked with age or gets fuel soaked and looses flotation (only happens with older cork-type floats). So if the float or float needle valve is not damaged, the fuel level will always be at whatever level the float was last set at.

 

So checking the float levels on most vehicles is rarely a concern - they are set properly from the factory and stay that way.

 

The bad news is that if it is set wrong at the factory, it will stay wrong, as it is never checked under normal maintenance. And THAT IS THE PROBLEM with the 2nd gens - it seems that NONE of them are set properly from the factory! I have done about 15 bikes now, and only ONE had the floats fairly close to the right setting on all carbs. Out of the other 50+ carburetors, only TWO of them were even close to factory spec on the float level. That's two carbs, not two bikes! Virtually all RSV and RSTD carbs are set way high from the factory - close to the overflow level (about 1.5 times as high as they should be). I suspect that this is what causes so many of these bikes to smell like gas in the garage after you shut it down.

 

So, the bottom line is this - if your bike runs good, the plugs never show black soot on the ceramic, you are happy with your fuel mileage, and you don't have a problem with the smell of gas, then forget about your carb floats - just ride and be happy. But if you have problems with any of the above, then I'd start by setting the floats correctly.

Goose

Edited July 29, 2009 by V7Goose

[N3FOL]

V7Goose,

 

I somewhat understand now, how significant a properly adjusted float is to our bikes. This really calls for some concern for the 2nd generation Ventures. What if I call a Yamaha dealer and tell them that my float may be out of spec? Will they say bring it in and we'll charge you for the work or should this be covered under warranty?

 

When I just got my bike, it smelled gas for the first 2000 miles while parked inside the garage. Now I'm at 7000+ miles and I no longer smell gas or perhaps I just don't notice it that much. My mpg averages about 40 mpg.

 

Thanks for your response.

[V7Goose]

Well, it SHOULD be covered under warranty, but a lot of lousy dealers decline warranty work on even more obvious items. They have a tool that allows them to check the float level without removing the carbs, so that is the first thing they would do. But I have my doubts about the accuracy of that check anyway. I suspect that 99% of the shops would look at it, and even if it showed the floats high, they'd think it was close enough and say it was OK.

 

More significantly, even if they agree to do it, I'd only give it about a 30% chance they even pull the carbs. They'll say they "fixed" it but do nothing at all.

 

Finally, I don't think I'd want one of them messing with my floats! Fewer young mechanics have carb experience these days, and if they try to follow the Yamahaha shop manual, they will set them all WAY TOO LOW - that section has some major errors in it.

 

This is one job, like the valve adjustment, that I would MUCH rather do myself unless I have a mechanic that I personally know and trust.

Goose

Edited July 29, 2009 by V7Goose

[N3FOL]

I agree 100%. I'm the same way with my cars and more picky with my Venture when it comes to dealer work. I know a dealership 50 miles west of me and they sometimes let me in their shop when my Vulcan went in for some scheduled pre-paid maintenance.

 

Perhaps I'll have to talk to the shop manager first and find out exactly how they are going to do the work...down the road.

 

Right now my bike runs excellent and with lots of power whenever I need it. After another 1000 miles, I am going to replace my plugs and take a close look at them and determine whether a float adjustment is justified or not (I am sure the dealer will be asking questions as well).

 

As far as Spark Plugs are concerned, I picked up 4 NGK plugs (DPR8EA-9) from Advance Auto for $1.99 each. I thought I was going to pay premium price for Venture plugs....