Information about Fuel Reformulation and Carb Fouling

[V7Goose]

I came across this information in the April, 2009, issue of Motorcycle Consumer News. I am posting this response in it entirety because I thought it would be useful for just about anyone fighting problems getting a smoothly running carbureted bike.

 

The answer that follows was in response to a question from someone who had several older (carbureted) bikes that do more sitting than riding, and he was having problems with carburetor fouling:

 

Answer (transcribed in full):

"[G]asoline deterioration is indeed a problem, one that has gotten much worse than it once was over the last few years. The most recent fuel reformulation has now resulted in fuel going stale in just a few weeks. As I understand it, the problem is fuel separation. The oxygenating compounds being used in gasoline are the primary culprits and not the alcohol (ethanol or methanol). The oxygenates and octane enhancers either separate or evaporate quickly, leaving the gummy, jet blocking and float sticking residue behind in just a few weeks' time. Traditional fuel stabilizers (as you have experienced) do not work well (if at all) with the current oxygenated fuels. Until a new fuel stabilizer is produced that deals with this new fuel formulation, I do not have a good solution for prevention beyond riding as often as you can and topping off the fuel at every opportunity.

I do have a few suggestions for folks dealing with clogged carbs. If the bike has been sitting, drain the fuel from the float bowls prior to starting. This will help prevent sucking the gunk into the jets. If the jets are clogged or restricted, Yamaha Carb Dip and Cleaner (ACC-CARBC-LE-NR) can be dispensed into the carbs through the fuel line. Crank the engine to draw the cleaner into the jets, then let it sit for several hours and, afterward, drain and refill with fresh fuel. This process will work if the carbs aren't too badly clogged. You can repeat the process, allowing the cleaner more time in the carbs or disassemble the carbs for direct cleaning. (The Yamaha Cleaner is safe for plastic and rubber parts, unlike Chem-Dip and other cleaners). K&L Supply Co. offers a Carb Jet Wire Cleaning tool (35-3498) available online and through most bike shops. The tool helps clear clogged jets, especially non-removable styles found in your Amal and many older Keihin carbs."

 

 

Background: The information was in response to a question in the Downtime Files section of the magazine. The masthead identifies the author as Matthew Wiley, an "AMI Certified mechanic. Since 1985 I’ve specializing in touring bikes, worked as tech, managed various dealerships in southwest Ohio from ’85 to 2000. Served as an instructor and technical trainer for MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute) from 2000–2005, and since 2005 I’ve done Internet sales, motorcycle service, technical writing & powersports business consulting. In 2007, I switched to Operations Manager for a racing suspension company and served as AHRMA Vintage Road Race Support."

 

I personally know nothing more about Matthew Whiley than that, but I have a huge respect for the quality of information published in Motorcycle Consumer News.

 

Goose

[juggler]

 

Answer (transcribed in full):

"[G]asoline deterioration is indeed a problem, one that has gotten much worse than it once was over the last few years. The most recent fuel reformulation has now resulted in fuel going stale in just a few weeks. As I understand it, the problem is fuel separation. The oxygenating compounds being used in gasoline are the primary culprits and not the alcohol (ethanol or methanol). The oxygenates and octane enhancers either separate or evaporate quickly, leaving the gummy, jet blocking and float sticking residue behind in just a few weeks' time. Traditional fuel stabilizers (as you have experienced) do not work well (if at all) with the current oxygenated fuels. Until a new fuel stabilizer is produced that deals with this new fuel formulation, I do not have a good solution for prevention beyond riding as often as you can and topping off the fuel at every opportunity.

 

This has been known for at least a decade and was warned about by the gas refineries. Yet the politicians refused to listen. Refineries have the same problem you do with gasoline in your car or bike tank. It goes stale fast and thus can only produce limited amounts and can not store large tanks full of gasoline anymore. This is a big reason why fuel prices spike faster than they used to when a refinery has production problems or demand suddenly increases like over a big travel weekend.

 

I do have a few suggestions for folks dealing with clogged carbs. If the bike has been sitting, drain the fuel from the float bowls prior to starting. This will help prevent sucking the gunk into the jets. If the jets are clogged or restricted, Yamaha Carb Dip and Cleaner (ACC-CARBC-LE-NR) can be dispensed into the carbs through the fuel line. Crank the engine to draw the cleaner into the jets, then let it sit for several hours and, afterward, drain and refill with fresh fuel. This process will work if the carbs aren't too badly clogged. You can repeat the process, allowing the cleaner more time in the carbs or disassemble the carbs for direct cleaning. (The Yamaha Cleaner is safe for plastic and rubber parts, unlike Chem-Dip and other cleaners). K&L Supply Co. offers a Carb Jet Wire Cleaning tool (35-3498) available online and through most bike shops. The tool helps clear clogged jets, especially non-removable styles found in your Amal and many older Keihin carbs."

 

Black Owl has been telling me about this stuff - he uses it all the time for the work he does.

 

 

Background: The information was in response to a question in the Downtime Files section of the magazine. The masthead identifies the author as Matthew Wiley, an "AMI Certified mechanic. Since 1985 I’ve specializing in touring bikes, worked as tech, managed various dealerships in southwest Ohio from ’85 to 2000. Served as an instructor and technical trainer for MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute) from 2000–2005, and since 2005 I’ve done Internet sales, motorcycle service, technical writing & powersports business consulting. In 2007, I switched to Operations Manager for a racing suspension company and served as AHRMA Vintage Road Race Support."

 

I personally know nothing more about Matthew Whiley than that, but I have a huge respect for the quality of information published in Motorcycle Consumer News.

 

Goose

 

We've had this sort of gasoline in MN since about 1998 or 1999. We've been reading and reporting all sorts of these problems with these fuel mixes since then, but the politicians ignore us.

 

In addition to the new gasoline formulations going bad faster, these formulations reduce the overall BTU rating of the gasoline thus producing less power when burned. This means you will get lower MPG. I've tested this in a car back in 2001 when I drove across several mid-west states. I took careful notes and behaved myself on the gas pedal. My MPG always fell dramatically when running the various oxygenated fuel mixes. In the end my MPG was reduced so much I burned more raw gasoline when running the mixed gasoline than if I had just used pure gasoline.

[V7Goose]

Juggler, you are right that oxygenated fuels have been around for more than a decade, but there was another big change about two or three years ago. That's when they got really clued in to the fouling of our ground water with MTBE (or something like that - I'm not taking the time to look it up). Thankfully, several states have banned MTBE, but none of the alternatives are good choices either. And it isn't just MTBE - the feds have made more stringent CO air quality standards, so all big cities with smog problems are forced to run oxygenated fuels trying to hit it. That was the biggest driver to the reformulation two years ago.

 

I just published that bit from MCN 'cause I thought seeing the info from someone else might give more credence that me just spewing forth myself!

Goose

[FuzzyRSTD]

Good stuff to know about Goose. Dag nabbit thier going to get us either way, we can not win the gas war. Or maybe we can ? All about the almighty BUCK I quess .

:mo money::mo money::mo money:

[FuzzyRSTD]

Juggler, you are right that oxygenated fuels have been around for more than a decade, but there was another big change about two or three years ago. That's when they got really clued in to the fouling of our ground water with MTBE (or something like that - I'm not taking the time to look it up). Thankfully, several states have banned MTBE, but none of the alternatives are good choices either. And it isn't just MTBE - the feds have made more stringent CO air quality standards, so all big cities with smog problems are forced to run oxygenated fuels trying to hit it. That was the biggest driver to the reformulation two years ago.

 

I just published that bit from MCN 'cause I thought seeing the info from someone else might give more credence that me just spewing forth myself!

Goose

Spew On my fellow biker, Please Spew on.

James

[juggler]

Juggler, you are right that oxygenated fuels have been around for more than a decade, but there was another big change about two or three years ago. That's when they got really clued in to the fouling of our ground water with MTBE (or something like that - I'm not taking the time to look it up). Thankfully, several states have banned MTBE, but none of the alternatives are good choices either. And it isn't just MTBE - the feds have made more stringent CO air quality standards, so all big cities with smog problems are forced to run oxygenated fuels trying to hit it. That was the biggest driver to the reformulation two years ago.

 

I just published that bit from MCN 'cause I thought seeing the info from someone else might give more credence that me just spewing forth myself!

Goose

 

We never had MTBE in Minnesota. We've only had the corn ethanol (big farm state) here and it will wick up water faster than normal gas.

 

E10 will gum things up faster, can't be stored long and costs far more to produce than they make selling it.

 

I wrote a piece about this on my political blog (Warning - It is political!)

[GaryZ]

Last year I was forced to remove and clean the carbs on my ZX11D7 after a tank of really bad gas had sat for a week. The symptom was very poor idle and blubbering at light throttle. One, possibly two, of the idle circuits were blocked.

 

This past week it started to go bad again. This time a slightly less severe problem of rough running at idle or light throttle. I successfully cleared the idle circuits by adding about 4 ounces of Sea Foam to a 2/3rd tank of fuel. I rode about 10 miles to get the tank mixed, and parked it overnight. The next morning all was good!

[RSTDdog]

I have been using the marine grade stabil in my bike. Its more money than regular stabil (go figure) says its specially formulated for use with ethanol and helps to reduce effects of water absorbtion in fuel due ot ethanol (according to the label). I use it at the storage rate (1 oz to 5 gallons) all the time. I have let the bike sit several weeks with no problems.

 

Ethanol is a scam and that's all I got to say about that.

 

RSTDdog

[wizard]

The first time I used this 10% ethanol was on the way back from Sturgis in Idaho. My mileage went to hell and the bike lacked power. What kinda of savings does this ethanol offer?