Magnets to make trafic lights turn green.

[Flyinfool]

OK I know that this has been discussed in the past. most recently that I know of, at [ame=http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2536]Turning left on a red when the light won't change. - VentureRider.Org[/ame].

Most of this info is in that thread, but that thread is a discussion on the legality of a left turn on red when the sensor does not see you so this info is kind of lost.

 

While at the WI MD (thanks again Jeff) this subject came up for discussion.

 

First some background.

What got me started on this was a newly built intersection near my house that I need to go through often. I tried every trick that I ever saw for trying to get that light to change for me, since the pickup coils are under the nice new pavement and were put in before the final layer of pavement I have no clue to exactly where they are.

I have tried;

Lining up on where I think the coils are.

Side stand down.

Center stand down

Turn off engine and restart.

I wussed out on the one that says to get off the bike and lay it down on the coils.

I tried all of these in many locations to see if I could find a spot and method that worked. None did.

I tried calling the city to see if it could be adjusted and was told that it is adjusted per spec and that increasing the sensitivity to "see" a motorcycle will cause false triggers from large vehicles in the next lane.

This intersection is so busy that it can take 10 minutes to find a hole in traffic to legally shoot through on the red.

 

I have done some experiments with the concept of adding a magnet to the bottom of the bike.

 

There are some commercial units available for this purpose, and some have tried mining old hard drives for the Rare Earth magnets, or use magnets from the hardware store, none of these have shown much promise or benefit, they are just not strong enough.

 

The magnet that I used is a 2 x 1 x 1/2 inch N52 rare earth magnet.

The magnet that I used is http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BY0X08-N52.

It sounds small but it is rated as capable of lifting 195 lbs. Watch your fingers while handling this and think twice about where you set it down. This magnet will pull the picture on a monitor or TV from 2 feet away VERY possibly doing permanent damage, There are warnings that people with medical implants like pace makers or defibrillators not handle these magnets.

 

I mounted this magnet to the center stand on my 1st gen since that was the lowest point on the bottom of the bike and I wanted to keep it away from all sensors and electronics on the bike. To date I have noticed no ill effects to the bike.

 

I rode to the intersection from hell and as Murphy would have it a cage pulled up on the other side of the intersection to trip the lights for me. I went around the block and tried this 6 more times and every time a cage pulled up at the same time from across the street.

Where the heck were all of these cages when I really wanted the light to change???

Finally I arrived at the intersection alone and within 20 seconds I was looking at my very own green left turn arrow. I did this 5 more times and every time I got a green arrow.

 

So just to be scientific and make sure that there was not some other factor involved, I removed the magnet and left it a good distance from the intersection, and spent the next 20 minutes trying every trick in the book to make that light turn green. Nothing worked, just like before.

The next test was to put the magnet in my sock and walked up to the light and I still got a green arrow, at which point I beat feet before the man in blue showed up and I would have to explain why I was stopping traffic on a busy highway by messing with the lights.

 

I put the magnet back on the bottom of the bike and have not been held up by a signal light anywhere since last April when I got the magnet.

I do still have to line the magnet up with where I think the wires are. If I pull into the center of the coil I still will not be detected.

This is a minor issue that I can live with.

 

I know that there are doubters.

I know that even Snopes says that this will not work.

I am just relating my personal experience.

 

As a possible side benefit to this very strong magnet, I have found nails and screws sticking to it that may have been destined for my back tire.

 

OK that was long, I'll shut up now.

[Venturous Randy]

Thanks Jeff, that was a well written review. It does sound like that with the repeatability that you had, that it does work.

Where on your centerstand did you mount the magnet? I have some magnets that are mounted on a disc and are about 2 1/2 inches in diameter. They are reasonably strong, but not like you are talking about. I have thought about mounting one on each leg of the centerstand just in front of where the first point of contact is when you roll the bike up on it. This would also help in I could use my heel and push the stand down until it touched and the magnets would be real close to the pavement.

RandyA

[SilvrT]

I rode to the intersection from hell and as Murphy would have it a cage pulled up on the other side of the intersection to trip the lights for me. I went around the block and tried this 6 more times and every time a cage pulled up at the same time from across the street.

Where the heck were all of these cages when I really wanted the light to change???

 

 

Is it possible the magnet was pulling the cages up to the light?

 

[Guest Ken8143]

OK Jeff - so you just pop it on your center stand, and I guess it stays put - doesn't vibrate off? On left leg or right leg of center stand or in the middle?

 

You may be on to a good thing - I get frustrated when the doggone light won't change.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

The next test was to put the magnet in my sock and walked up to the light and I still got a green arrow, at which point I beat feet before the man in blue showed up and I would have to explain why I was stopping traffic on a busy highway by messing with the lights.

 

 

Well this one test seems to be the defining proof. I gotta wonder about people who wear copper bracelets...I mean, dont tell them about THIS!!!

 

Hey..can you imagine the scene?

 

• Officer on radio: Car 15 calling dispatch.
   
  
• Dispatch: Go ahead 15.
   
  
• Officer: I have an un-tagged pedestrian mobile in the left turn bay at tenth and main. Unit in question seems to be overweight...tripping the lite here repeatedly.
   
  
• Dispatch: Say again 15?
   
  
• Officer: Uh. Disregard.
   
  
• Dispatch: 10-4.
  

 

 

BTW...since you already KNOW the trigger is picky, why cant you use the thru lane, and then just turn left when you get the green and traffic is clear?

 

2nd BTW. In Texas, it is a state LAW that the sensors MUST detect motorcycles. It can be used as a defense against a traffic ticket for running the red with a bike (after a proper wait!). You might do some research where you live. But, I guess you have it solved.

 

Cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[a1bummer]

Here in the Wi. Motorcyclists' Handbook, (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/docs/cycle-handbook.pdf on page 8 & 9), it states, When facing a red light, you may proceed CAUTIOUSLY through the intersection when the light is still red if ALL of the following conditions are present:

You reasonably believe the signal is vehicle activated (if the signal is timed, you may not proceed through a red light no matter how long it takes to change to green);

No other vehicles are present to activate the signal;

You have stopped at the signal for at least 45 seconds;

and,You yield right-of-way to vehicles proceeding through on a green signal and to pedestrians and bicycles in the crosswalk or intersection.

[Flyinfool]

Where on your centerstand did you mount the magnet? I have some magnets that are mounted on a disc and are about 2 1/2 inches in diameter. They are reasonably strong, but not like you are talking about. I have thought about mounting one on each leg of the centerstand just in front of where the first point of contact is when you roll the bike up on it. This would also help in I could use my heel and push the stand down until it touched and the magnets would be real close to the pavement.

RandyA

 

That is where I have the magnet mounted.

 

OK Jeff - so you just pop it on your center stand, and I guess it stays put - doesn't vibrate off? On left leg or right leg of center stand or in the middle?

 

For the initial testing I just let it hold itself there and it stayed. Just for peace of mind I added a strip of the gray 3M double sided foam tape that is used to hold trim on a cage. Available at most auto parts places.

 

A1

I understand that that is legal but I would rather the light changed for me.

[Dave77459]

To all, where would one mount this on an RSTD / 2nd Gen? On the oil pan?

 

The magnet that I used is a 2 x 1 x 1/2 inch N52 rare earth magnet.

The magnet that I used is http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BY0X08-N52.

 

Thanks Jeff, for the great post and product link. I have a reluctant left turn detector coming out of the HOV lane that I go through every time I ride the bike to work. And, last weekend, I was on a group ride where we had 15 bikes stacked in the left turn lane, and the light still didn't trip.

 

2nd BTW. In Texas, it is a state LAW that the sensors MUST detect motorcycles. It can be used as a defense against a traffic ticket for running the red with a bike (after a proper wait!). You might do some research where you live. But, I guess you have it solved.

 

I've looked in the past and cannot find where this is referenced in Texas code. Can you point it to me? I've not gotten stopped for running red lights (or turning right with a shallow U-turn), but I'd like to have a printout of chapter and verse for when I am.

 

Dave

[Flyinfool]

To all, where would one mount this on an RSTD / 2nd Gen? On the oil pan?

 

Dave

 

If the oil pan is aluminum like a 1st gen then the magnet will not stick.

This magnet is not rated for Aluminum.

Sorry, couldn't help myself......

 

I have not looked at a 2nd gen close but I would think that the same place would work as I used, on the center stand just above the pad that hits the ground.

[Dave77459]

If the oil pan is aluminum like a 1st gen then the magnet will not stick.

This magnet is not rated for Aluminum.

Sorry, couldn't help myself......

 

I have not looked at a 2nd gen close but I would think that the same place would work as I used, on the center stand just above the pad that hits the ground.

 

I don't think I have a center stand? Just two holes where it would go, and that I use to connect my lift adapter.

 

There's a lot of aluminum on this bike.

 

Dave

[99silver]

I have an intersection like that ! most times if I center the bike over the loop and give the engine a good rev it will trigger the light.

OR !!!!! at 3:00 am when the world is asleep, with a cordless drill and a hole saw about the size of the magnet, install your own personal yet permenant TRIGGER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you do that ????

[BuddyRich]

Have you tried removing the magnet now and go back to the same light ?

[timgray]

you can get those magnets free out of a dead hard drive. They are under the head mechanism pivot.

[Sylvester]

I have never wasted the time at a light that does not give me a signal to go. After one cycle of the light I go no matter what. Did this in front of a city police cruiser and nothing happened. I will go to court to fight the charge if I ever get a ticket. The court system does not like to argue with persons in the right.

[GuthDaddy17]

I sit through One cycle...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest tx2sturgis]

 

I've looked in the past and cannot find where this is referenced in Texas code. Can you point it to me? I've not gotten stopped for running red lights (or turning right with a shallow U-turn), but I'd like to have a printout of chapter and verse for when I am.

 

Dave

 

Dave, Texas Transportation Code is not the same as what a city or county may or may not enforce...but here ya go:

 

First go to this link:

 

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/tn.toc.htm

 

Scroll down to section 544.0075 ( you may need to click 'chapter 544' first)

 

Once youve done that, you should get a dropin showing 544.0075.

 

Click that and within the document you will find these paragraphs:

 

 

 

 

Sec. 544.0075. CERTAIN TRAFFIC-ACTUATED ELECTRIC TRAFFIC-CONTROL SIGNALS.

 

(a) This section applies only to a traffic-actuated electric traffic-control signal that consists of a traffic-control signal for which the intervals vary according to the demands of vehicular traffic as registered by a detector and that is installed and operating at an intersection.

 

(b) In addition to any other type of vehicle the presence of which the detector for the traffic-actuated electric traffic-control signal may register, the detector for a traffic-actuated electric traffic-control device to which this section applies must be capable of registering the presence of a motorcycle.

 

 

Within that document you will see a link to '219'...be sure to read that also.

 

You can also do a google search on the web for 'Texas Transportation Code 544.0075" to confirm that this code is valid on several sites including the Texas DOT website....some are just easier to use than others. This one has it all.

 

 

Here is some other info:

 

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/msb/msbfaqs.htm

 

Click question number 19, which references the above document.

 

The long and short of it is, you cant LEGALLY run the redlight, but they cant LEGALLY install a sensor that does not pick up the presence of a bike.

 

Catch-22. We win.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2009 by tx2sturgis

[Flyinfool]

I have never wasted the time at a light that does not give me a signal to go. After one cycle of the light I go no matter what. Did this in front of a city police cruiser and nothing happened. I will go to court to fight the charge if I ever get a ticket. The court system does not like to argue with persons in the right.

 

At this intersection "going no matter what" will turn you into a road pizza. As I mentioned in the original post it can take 10 minuets or more to find a hole in traffic to go through.

 

Why not just have the light change and all of the cages stop to let you go through safely? But then I have talked to some people that enjoy the drama and excitement of "running" a red light.

 

Buddy

On the day I did my testing I went 5 for five runs thru the intersection with the magnet and got the light, I also went 5 for 5 without the magnet and did not get the light. I have not and do not plan to due further testing, I'm convinced. I can not guaranty that this will work for all intersections or all bikes, but I have not had to "run" a red since I put on the magnet.

[Dave77459]

Dave, Texas Transportation Code is not the same as what a city or county may or may not enforce...but here ya go:

 

*snip*

 

The long and short of it is, you cant LEGALLY run the redlight, but they cant LEGALLY install a sensor that does not pick up the presence of a bike.

 

Catch-22. We win.

Thank you for the link. I see there is a PDF, so I can print an olde timey courier version.

 

I also saw this text:

Sec. 544.0055. TRAFFIC-CONTROL SIGNAL PREEMPTION DEVICE; OFFENSE.

(a) In this section, "traffic-control signal preemption device" means a device designed, intended, or used to interfere with or alter the operation of a traffic-control signal.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (e), a person commits an offense if the person uses, sells, offers for sale, purchases, or possesses for use or sale a traffic-control signal preemption device.

© The possession of a traffic-control signal preemption device creates the presumption that the person possessed the device for use or sale.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

(e) This section does not apply to:

(1) a person who provides fire-fighting, law enforcement, ambulance, medical, or other emergency services in the course of providing those services;

(2) a manufacturer, wholesaler, or retailer of traffic-control signal preemption devices in the course of manufacturing, selling, providing, or transporting a traffic-control signal preemption device to a person described by Subdivision (1); or

(3) a transit vehicle operated by an authority under Chapter 451 or 452 or a transit department under Chapter 453.

Added by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 244, Sec. 1, eff. May 30, 2005.

I just bet some annoyed policeman will consider a magnet to be tampering with the traffic control signal.

 

Anyways, this is going to be part of arsenal if ever I am stopped for turning left against the signal. Thanks for the pointers.

 

Dave

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Thank you for the link. I see there is a PDF, so I can print an olde timey courier version.

 

 

I also saw this text:

I just bet some annoyed policeman will consider a magnet to be tampering with the traffic control signal.

 

Anyways, this is going to be part of arsenal if ever I am stopped for turning left against the signal. Thanks for the pointers.

 

Dave

 

You bet....I've never had to use this defense, but I understand from rumour that it CAN be used as a defense...of course, I'm not a lawyer.

 

As far as the device thats being used for tampering with a signal...for a short time, it was not illegal in most states to use a MIRT if you were just a common citizen...of course, now most states, I'm guessing ALL of them where a MIRT will work, have made it illegal to use one ( or even possess one!) unless you qualify as 'emergency personnel'.

 

For those who dont know what a MIRT is, click here:

 

http://www.themirt.com/

 

Youre welcome!

 

 

Edited July 22, 2009 by tx2sturgis

[dynodon]

Jeff,

 

thanks for your very well written and researched article. I especially found the comment about the magnet picking up nails and such as a good laugh.

 

I wonder though, if sometimes, the magnet might pull nails or other sharp objects over some as you drive by, and leave them in the path? My wife has horses, and if they have shoes, they pull them and leave nails in the pasture all the time. The wife has a magnet "trolly" or sweeper, on wheels that we use from time to time to find the shoes and nails.

 

when I had the roof on my garage replaced, we used them to sweep the yard for screws (metal roof) and got hundreds left in the grass by the crew! I use them on my gravel parking area under a carport and am surprised at how much metal I get from year to year, that I have no idea how it gets there!

 

I do have one question. how do they ship these? I would imagine they are in a huge box to reduce the magnetic effect, or they would arrive attached to a few extra packages with metal in them for other people?

[eagleeye]

This is how Wisconsin deals with this issue:

 

2005 Wisconsin Act 466

 

S

ECTION 15.

ECTION 16.

346.37 (1) © 4. of the statutes is created

to read:

346.37

(1) © 4. Notwithstanding subd. 1., a motorcycle,

moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle facing a red signal

at an intersection may, after stopping as required

under subd. 1. for not less than 45 seconds, proceed cautiously

through the intersection before the signal turns

green if no other vehicles are present at the intersection

to actuate the signal and the operator of the motorcycle,

moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle reasonably believes the

signal is vehicle actuated. The operator of a motorcycle,

moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle proceeding through a

red signal under this subdivision shall yield the right−of−

way to any vehicular traffic, pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider

of an electric personal assistive mobility device proceeding

through a green signal at the intersection or lawfully

within a crosswalk or using the intersection. This subdivision

does not affect any authorization for a bicyclist

under subd. 2.

 

Steve

Edited July 22, 2009 by eagleeye

[Venturous Randy]

I have never wasted the time at a light that does not give me a signal to go. After one cycle of the light I go no matter what. Did this in front of a city police cruiser and nothing happened. I will go to court to fight the charge if I ever get a ticket. The court system does not like to argue with persons in the right.

 

It is my understanding that NC, just like TN, now allows motorcycles to go thru a red light under proper conditions.

RandyA

[Flyinfool]

Dave

I doubt that an officer would ever even consider crawling under a bike to look for a magnet, since it is not "controlling" the light but merely allowing it to work as designed and programed. Besides even though you know where the magnet is on my bike, you might be hard pressed to find it.

 

Don

My magnet arrived in a cardboard box that was approximately a 6 inch cube. I would hate to be owner of any computer equipment that was anywhere near this box on the truck. It could easily wipe out a hard drive or crt monitor from 6 inches away.

I guess the magnet could pull a nail over that you would have missed otherwise.

 

Tim

Yes you can get Rare earth magnets out of a hard drive, but they are very tiny and weak compared to what I am using.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Dave

I doubt that an officer would ever even consider crawling under a bike to look for a magnet, since it is not "controlling" the light but merely allowing it to work as designed and programed. Besides even though you know where the magnet is on my bike, you might be hard pressed to find it.

 

Well, unless when he approached the bike his gun jumped out of the holster and 'clanged' onto your bike's frame!!! THAT would get his attention!!!

 

 

[Flyinfool]

But that would be funny.