Is this Normal

[Red Ryder]

Hey,

 

Had a few deer start to come out in the past, but they always hesitated when they heard the loudness of my Fishtail Pipes. A few weeks back I took off my Fishtail Pipes and put back on the stock pipes, wife like's the quiteness, but now....

 

Yesturday, riding thru heavy wooded area close to road, had a deer jump right out in front of me, did not see it, luckily at an angle going away from me. Going about 65mpr, I immediatly hit full breaks, Rear first, then split second, front. Keept the Handlebars straight forward but the Rear End came sideways a little 6-8" to the right. Still was going about 25-35 I'm guessing when the deer passed by, I left off the breaks, But the bike was already doing a woble side to side, like when you pulled the string on a spinning top. Thought I was going to loose it, had bike's do a little woble before when hitting small animals, but nothing this bad. With that much of a woble side to side, Is this Normal??? Later-

[Sideoftheroad]

Overall I would say based on my experience, this isn't a bike you want to lock the brakes on.

[Carbon_One]

Yep you don't want that rear wheel to lock at all. Two years ago I went down doing pretty much what you did. I couldn't get control of the bike once it started the wobble. Needless to say I spent some serious money rebuilding the bike after that.

You might want to check here for a proportioning valve one of our members, Rick Butler, sell. He has an ad in 2nd gen parts & accessories of the Classified section. I know I would of added one if I hadn't converted my bike to a trike.

Larry

[BuddyRich]

When ever I lock the rear I immediately get off of it and re apply. You let it get too far sideways and let off that locked up rear wheel and you'll get highsided. For emergency stops you should be all over that front brake. that's the one that's gonna make or break your stopping distance. In a curve getting all over that front brake will result in the bike wanting to go straight so you have to steer even harder to stay on you intended path and brake hard at the same time.

[Red Ryder]

Thanks Jerry,Larry and Buddy. I agree Jerry this is not the bike to lock up, but I will now look into Rick Butler's proportioning valve. Yes Buddy, just reacted, held rear too long, thanks for the advise will use if this happens again. Thank goodness I was solo. With that thought, if riding two up, fully loaded would it have helped with the woble effect or made it worse? Later-

Edited July 17, 2009 by Red Ryder
updating commit

[Tom]

Deer are so unpredictable..I live in probably the worst place for deer..On a typical run to town I will see at least 30 deer..7 miles..If I go farther,say 35 miles have seen as many as 100 plus.I dont do anything but pray they will stay still and TRY not to make any excess noise cause as soon as you change the existing noise or change speeds they run like crazy.Ive seen them come out of nowhere and broadside cars. Hope I never have to try and lock it down but I am pretty good at using the front brake for the majority of stopping power.

[SilvrT]

Deer are so unpredictable..I live in probably the worst place for deer..On a typical run to town I will see at least 30 deer..7 miles..If I go farther,say 35 miles have seen as many as 100 plus.I dont do anything but pray they will stay still and TRY not to make any excess noise cause as soon as you change the existing noise or change speeds they run like crazy.Ive seen them come out of nowhere and broadside cars. Hope I never have to try and lock it down but I am pretty good at using the front brake for the majority of stopping power.

 

heh... it's no wonder I got skunked so many times when I used to hunt... you got all the danged deer down there!

[MiCarl]

Thanks Jerry,Larry and Buddy. I agree Jerry this is not the bike to lock up, but I will now look into Rick Butler's proportioning valve. Yes Buddy, just reacted, held rear too long, thanks for the advise will use if this happens again. Thank goodness I was solo. With that thought, if riding two up, fully loaded would it have helped with the woble effect or made it worse? Later-

 

When the rear wheel locked up it lost braking ability. When that happens it tries to pass the front wheel. The wobble was likely caused by you fighting to keep it straight in the loss of stability. Extra load would have made your battle much more difficult and you'd have been more likely to go down - or highside when you let off the rear brake.

 

The other day I was talking to a paramedic. He'd received a call to a motorcycle - deer accident in a park. He was wondering how it was possible to not be able to avoid the deer when the speed limit in the park is 25. Turns out the biker didn't actually hit the deer - the deer ran him over from the side. They're very dangerous, especially when spooked or horny.

[CrazyHorse]

When ever I lock the rear I immediately get off of it and re apply. You let it get too far sideways and let off that locked up rear wheel and you'll get highsided. For emergency stops you should be all over that front brake. that's the one that's gonna make or break your stopping distance. In a curve getting all over that front brake will result in the bike wanting to go straight so you have to steer even harder to stay on you intended path and brake hard at the same time.

 

 

Me 2 get off the rear right then. If it comes aound to far you gotta stay on it. Front brake in a curve to hard and you gonna low side bike cant brake hard and turn hard at same time. Dont ask how I know. Front trail brake with care (lite pressure) in a turn. Rear brake is a little better in turn.

 

Your gonna have to straighten out and brake so as not to let the front wheel washout from underneath you. If you want to have any sense of control.

[CrazyHorse]

Deer are so unpredictable..I live in probably the worst place for deer..On a typical run to town I will see at least 30 deer..7 miles..If I go farther,say 35 miles have seen as many as 100 plus.I dont do anything but pray they will stay still and TRY not to make any excess noise cause as soon as you change the existing noise or change speeds they run like crazy.Ive seen them come out of nowhere and broadside cars. Hope I never have to try and lock it down but I am pretty good at using the front brake for the majority of stopping power.

 

 

Texas deer? They re as big as a cat. Come up this way for some corn fed.

[Red Ryder]

Thanks all, when the bike wobled and I let off the brake, I instinctively gave it gas to straighten it out, which it did straighten out. But it wanted to fight me at first. It took All I could do to keep her upright.

 

But, now that I think about it, was giving the bike more gas the right decision?

or would just letting of the brake, and allow it to straight out itself be right?

 

Heck, I didn't even have time to downshift, not sure why I didn't, I just held in the clutch. But I was watching the deer, we stared eye to eye at each other, sorta hairy feeling. Thought I was hitting that big doe for sure.

 

Trying to learn from this experience, but it happened so fast there really wasn't time to think, just react. If there would have been several deer, and I would have held the brake for a few seconds more, it could have been a bad situation, the wobled or highside was that severe. Thanks for everyones imput. Later-

[BuddyRich]

Texas deer? They re as big as a cat. Come up this way for some corn fed.

That's what I thought and I'm from KY. They is only about 30lbs lighter down here so don't underestimate them. They is corn fed here too. Now the other ones here are the 150 to 250 lb hogs. Them things are everywhere. And while your looking high for the deer eyes in the dark they come running out and you think,oh a raccoon, till you get close enough to lite them up with your headlights then its OH S*^*...

[SteveW]

Another reason to have a sidecar !! Lock up the rear brake all you want ( It stops great with the CT on it )

[dynodon]

Red Ryder,

 

I would think letting up on the front brake and applying a little foot brake might help stabilize it, but if not, then some gas would be my next best guess, but that is all it is, a guess. Need someone that has experimented with THIS bike (Royal Star Venture) in that situation to answer that one! Sounds like you did OK if you didn't go down.

 

As for the deer, I was afraid you were going to conclude that if you had left the loud pipes on, the deer would not have bolted, but you just can't make that assumption. Could be that every deer you saw the last years would have bolted with the loud pipes, you just can't say what motivates these critters.

 

I use a deer whistle that I like, but I am going to stop short of saying it works. Maybe, maybe not. I know that I used it when doing the One Lap of America, driving 5000+ miles in a little over a week, mostly at night. We SAW three or four deer, and they all looked at us and turned away. The car was pretty quiet except for the whistle. But I had one of those on another car recently and collected my first deer in 45 years of driving!

 

Here is one to tell your friends. When they were fixing my car, I called the body shop and asked them to pop the deer whistle off the old bumper cover and put it in the glove box for me to put back on! You could hear the guys in the shop howling over that one, and I was laughing with them, but I paid 3 bucks for that damn thing, and wanted it back! LOL

[frogmaster]

Emergency Braking is something you have to "Practice" to be good at. A Saturday in an empty school parking lot. I even make my 2 Up practice this too. Told her is is OK to fall forward onto my back and shoulders and Hold Tight... might as well close your eyes nothing to see except the back of my neck LOL! She did very well TY.

 

The MSF.Org course has some braking courses... The one that is mind-blowing is in the middle of a curve SNAP handle bars Level then E-Brake. Feels un-natural to pull out of a curve to Brake but they explain several real life senarios that make since and get this IT REALL WORKED. They start with Straight E-Braking and is part of Final Exam and if you lock rear or front you fail that exam. They gave us 45 minutes prior to exam to practice anything we wanted to do better at... Yep I spent all 45 minutes E-braking. Anyways PRACTICE E-Braking the right way. See MSF.Org.

 

Hey Redryder I see ya near TAWAS, MI. MSF.Org $25.00 and use there 250cc if ya like.

 

Good Luck

[midnightventure]

I haven't seen anybody state this yet so I will. When applying the front brake do it quickly but gradually so that the weight gets transferred to the front end before the brake is all the way on. Also if you decide to do any maneuvering you should probably get off the brakes some. Part of this is my experience. When I had my accident I didn't even realize I was sliding. The sound of a bike sliding is different from a car. I left a 76' skidmark straight as a string. It was only when I tried to move to the outside of the lane that I went down. I didn't know I had been sliding until I went back and looked at the accident site. I have slid again since then and recognized the sound and didn't crash. They say once the back locks up to keep it locked up but that is hard to do.

Edited July 17, 2009 by midnightventure
typo

[Marcarl]

I'll have to go back and read my training instuctions, but I remember being taught for E-braking: jam on the rear, don't worry about it, you have enough other things to consetrate on, so lock it up and consetrate on steering balance and the front brake, just don't lock up the front, or you'll high side.

Corner braking was practised as well, when in a curve, hit the brakes, straighten up the scoot and bring the scoot in a straight line, all in one motion as the bike slows.

Everything is done progressively except the rear brake, that goes on and stays on.

Haven't had any real experience with all this except for practice, but this comes from racing riders, I suppose they might have a better understanding of the issue than me. So for now it's just in my brain, and hopefully will be there when reaction is needed.

[frogmaster]

Emergency Braking is something you have to "Practice" to be good at. A Saturday in an empty school parking lot. I even make my 2 Up practice this too. Told her is is OK to fall forward onto my back and shoulders and Hold Tight... might as well close your eyes nothing to see except the back of my neck LOL! She did very well TY.

 

The MSF.Org course has some braking courses... The one that is mind-blowing is in the middle of a curve SNAP handle bars Level then E-Brake. Feels un-natural to pull out of a curve to Brake but they explain several real life senarios that make since and get this IT REALL WORKED. They start with Straight E-Braking and is part of Final Exam and if you lock rear or front you fail that exam. They gave us 45 minutes prior to exam to practice anything we wanted to do better at... Yep I spent all 45 minutes E-braking. Anyways PRACTICE E-Braking the right way. See MSF.Org.

 

Hey Redryder I see ya near TAWAS, MI. MSF.Org $25.00 and use there 250cc if ya like.

 

Good Luck

 

See how E-Braking may have saved injury or maybe worse... [ame=http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38330]Nearly Missed Accident last eve (descriptive details)... - VentureRider.Org[/ame]

[Russ]

Emergency Braking is something you have to "Practice" to be good at. A Saturday in an empty school parking lot. I even make my 2 Up practice this too. Told her is is OK to fall forward onto my back and shoulders and Hold Tight... might as well close your eyes nothing to see except the back of my neck LOL! She did very well TY.

 

The MSF.Org course has some braking courses... The one that is mind-blowing is in the middle of a curve SNAP handle bars Level then E-Brake. Feels un-natural to pull out of a curve to Brake but they explain several real life senarios that make since and get this IT REALL WORKED. They start with Straight E-Braking and is part of Final Exam and if you lock rear or front you fail that exam. They gave us 45 minutes prior to exam to practice anything we wanted to do better at... Yep I spent all 45 minutes E-braking. Anyways PRACTICE E-Braking the right way. See MSF.Org.

 

Hey Redryder I see ya near TAWAS, MI. MSF.Org $25.00 and use there 250cc if ya like.

 

Good Luck

 

Tried looking up this MSF.org... and it looks like MSF.org is Medicins sans Frontieres... this don't look like a motorcycle safety course to me...

[BuddyRich]

http://www.msf-usa.org

[Red Ryder]

Thanks Charlie and all, I will check out that MSF.Org, it will never hurt to learn more, but will hurt if you didn't learn. The truth behind an accident or close call I believe is reaction time and knowing what to do. I did not have time to think, just react. So, just like anything else in life, if you practice, it will be instinctive if something does happen. Thanks for everyones imput. Later-

[Monty]

I hadly ever use the rear brake, even for hard stops. I would say I'm probably 90% front and 10% rear.

 

I ride 40 miles to work every morning, and I have to CONSTANTLY watch out for deer. The ones that worry me, come out of the trees, jump the road, and are back in the trees on the other side in like 1-2 seconds. They never even hesitate or look, they are running full speed. Last year, on Fathers' Day, a guy from my work was riding home on his Harley, and a deer jumped out and knocked him off the bike in mid air. The bike hit him in the side, so he never even saw it. It took him clean off the bike, and into the path of an oncoming car, which killed him. The bike just kept rolling until it lost momentum and fell over. There was hardly a scratch on it. JUst shows you, you can't see them all.

 

I saw one a few weeks ago that flew across the road about 75 yards in front of me, and I think it took it about a second to get from treeline to treeline.....very scary.