I need electrical help again......

[1BigDog]

Well, after all the electric problems I have had and thought had overcome, a new one popped up last night. Most recall that I had upgraded the stator, rectifier/regulator, battery, ignition switch is new and all connections are tight and all plugs were seperated, cleaned and dialectrically greased. Bike was running better than ever. Last night as I was getting ready to leave for work, I went to fire the bike up. I disconnected the battery tender, turned the key on, waited a few seconds for the fuel pump to finish clicking then hit the starter button. Got half a whirr out of it then all went dark. Nothing, Nada....I turned it to accessory and the radio backlight light started pulsing for about 30 seconds then the radio came on. Nothing else came on, not even the signals. I tried going back to the on position but nothing still. I switched back to the acc and once again the radio backlight began a series of pulses before the radio came on. No presets were lost so the battery hasnt run down. A check today of the battery off the battery tender all night showed just under 13.00. I tried the switch and everything came on. Now I did hit the started switch while the DMM was connected and it went dark again. Went back to acc and the radio backlight started its pulsing dance again. If I hit the started button while the radio is on it goes dark until I let the button go, then the pulsing starts and a few seconds later the radio comes back on.

 

So, since Im no electrical genius I would really appreciate some thorough advice here is laymans terms, before I start a bonfire in the middle of my driveway....

[FreezyRider]

First thing I'd check is the battery voltage with the start button depressed. It may be good with no load, but possible that it has no capacity to deliver starting voltage. I've seen it happen on brand new batteries.

 

Joe

[flb_78]

Are you using an actual "Battery Tender" brand charger, or another brand?

 

Im wondering if maybe the charger isn't trickling once the battery is fully charged and it's boiling or sulfating the battery?

 

If you don't fix it today, put the batter back on the tender and check the voltage while it's charging, then in 8 hours or later, recheck the voltage and post up the results.

[Herb In Texas]

Sounds like poor battery connections. Start by Cleaning the battery terminals and cables. Now you said that your relitivly inexperienced with electrical stuff so I will go elementary. To do a good job of cleaning the cables and posts you must disconect them. Negative first then positive. Once you have them removed it is just as easy to take the battery out and get it up on the bench where you can really get at it to clean it. You want to remove any and all crud that does not look like shiney metal from the posts. some goes for the terminals on the wires going to the battery. Use a wire brush for both operations. since you have the battery on the bench time for a load test. Find a friend who has a battery load tester. Connect it to the battery, red to positive and black to negitive. take note of the voltage. Should be 12 to 12.5 or so. engage the switch to apply load. this will simulate the action of the starter motor. hold the switch for about fifteen seconds, note voltage. Now if the voltage drops to 10 or 11 and holds the battery is most likley ok. If the needle goes down slowly and continues to fall time for a new one. second part of the test is recovery voltage, Once you release the load the battery should on its own rebuild to right around 12v. This is not to say it is recharging itself it is mearly recovering to normal voltage. If it does not then you likley have a weak or dead cell. when your reinstall this battery or a new one depending on test results, lightley coat your reconnected terminals and posts with plain old #2 grease.

This will help prevent corrosion in the future. Now to stir the pot. Battery tenders are ok for storage but every day use IMHO will destroy your battery. Ride everyday and let the charging system do its job.

[1BigDog]

Let me clarify. Im not inexperienced in working on the electrics, just sometimes the jargon gets too technical for me. My connections are all clean and tight. I have had weak battery issues in the past and it usually just cranked slowly or not at all but I still had full power to all areas (lights, dash, etc) If the battery does run down that low then I would lose all radio presets, which I havent. I just never had it act this way before. Somehow I feel that it might be either a bad switch or something similar. I probably wont have the time to fully check into this until this weekend, but keep those ideas coming. Im listening to all your suggestions......

[Herb In Texas]

Check the main connection at the starter motor. I don't have a diagram in front of me and my bike is half a mile away. But seems to me the positive lead goes to the starter motor and splits off from there to provide power to the other circuits. Heat vibration and road grime can sometimes make this a poor connection. Sometimes loosening and then retightening this will correctlow power issues. Also check the termination of the ground lead for the same reasons. And I appoligize for my previous thread only took literal what i read.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Herb In Texas
Added ground comment

[1BigDog]

And I appoligize for my previous thread only took literal what i read.

 

No problem there. I was looking for simple..LOL.

Since I have been up since 1 am I just took a 1/2 hr nap and hit the garage again. I took off the battery connections and wire brushed them (they were clean but I did it anyway). Once I bolted them back on I had full power. I hit the starter button and heard what sounded like a bad electrical click if you know what I mean. Kinda like a quick elec short sound and I lost all power. This time nothing is coming on except for the button lights on the radio and only on Acc.

I also took some DMM readings:

With the (real) Battery Tender on it showed 14.29

 

After removing the Battery tender and with ign switch on, DMM is fluctuating quickly between 1.42 and 2.47

 

key off and unplugged from Tender: 12.76

 

On ACC No Radio but it fluctuated between 9.40 and 10.50

 

After cleaning battery and getting full power and after hitting start button and losing everything I now get with the switch on ign it drops to 0.57. Sounds like something blew at this point.

 

now with everything off the battery is back up to 12.75

 

OK, im ready for ya's...... Any of this makes sense?

Edited July 16, 2009 by Ruffy

[Herb In Texas]

Small posibility starter motor is at fault. With the voltages you are describing apears to be a dead short. my first thought would be to remove it and bench test it.

[tsigwing]

No problem there. I was looking for simple..LOL.

Since I have been up since 1 am I just took a 1/2 hr nap and hit the garage again. I took off the battery connections and wire brushed them (they were clean but I did it anyway). Once I bolted them back on I had full power. I hit the starter button and heard what sounded like a bad electrical click if you know what I mean. Kinda like a quick elec short sound and I lost all power. This time nothing is coming on except for the button lights on the radio and only on Acc.

I also took some DMM readings:

With the (real) Battery Tender on it showed 14.29

 

After removing the Battery tender and with ign switch on, DMM is fluctuating quickly between 1.42 and 2.47

 

key off and unplugged from Tender: 12.76

 

On ACC No Radio but it fluctuated between 9.40 and 10.50

 

After cleaning battery and getting full power and after hitting start button and losing everything I now get with the switch on ign it drops to 0.57. Sounds like something blew at this point.

 

now with everything off the battery is back up to 12.75

 

OK, im ready for ya's...... Any of this makes sense?

 

 

sounds like a bad battery to me, have you tried to jump it yet?

[Herb In Texas]

Because you had full voltage before the switch was engaged that tells me the start circuit is ok. But with the voltage down after the start switch kinda leads me to believe the start relay is held in after the start switch is released. But with out the start motor turning this would be a constant drain on the battery. But the 0.5 thing also has me conserned. If you were pulling enough amperage to drop the voltage that low you should see smoke from some where. sorry this sounds ramblely but it is developing as I type. I still think a battery load test is in order to rule out dead cell. If your sure the battery is good. Run a heavy gauge jumper from the + terminal on the batery down to the big post on the start motor. key on or off the start motor should turn. be sure your in neutral. If it turns then need to back track. I don't think in will. my opinion is battery or starter motor. batery most probible.

[V7Goose]

98.72658% chance it is a bad battery. Take it to just about any auto parts store and have them load test it. Won't cost you a thing, and you will know for sure.

Goose

[Freebird]

I agree with Mr. Goose. Bad battery was my first thought also.

[Herb In Texas]

I didn't think to take it to a store to have it load tested. Good point. Probably cause I own one. I some times have to go around the barn the long way to get to the out house. But I usually get there without incident.:rotfl::rotfl:

[1BigDog]

Ill give the load test a shot. I still have a few months left on the battery warranty. I got it from batteries plus and they have a full year free replacement on their batteries.

 

OK, that being said, I went back out to the garage and tried the key again. I had full power, meaning when I turned the key full on everything lit up. I hit the starter button and this time, paying closer attention I heard an audible click which sounds like it came from the inside the left side battery cover, where the starter relay lives. Once again it lost all power. It sat for about 1/2 hour, maybe long enough to cool down and reset. It possibly moved and is grounding out too. That switch was jostled around quite a bit when I relocated the stator wires up that side of the bike. Maybe some new thicker battery cables are in order too. Tomorrow ill pull off the cover and check and test the starter relay for continuity. I will say that after all of this the battery immediately goes back to 12.76 NOT connected to the Battery Tender. But at this point ill give anything a try.

 

Thanks for the quick responses. I guess its not unreasonable that after 10 years some electrical components will fail. Im just glad that I was at home when it happened and not at 2 am on top of the two lane Mathews bridge here in town.....that would have been really bad.

 

Thanks guys....updates will follow..

 

Sneaky update: I just tried the key again after sitting for 1 hour. Turned it to start and everything lit up like it should. I didnt hit the starter button this time because I know the results but I did disconnect the battery. I dont need that bonfire in my garage......

But it does seem like its the starter relay. Once it cools down it lets power through until it gets a jolt from the start button, then it dies. If it is the relay at least its only a 35.00 part.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Ruffy

[Herb In Texas]

Just curious if you found out what the problem was.

[1BigDog]

Just curious if you found out what the problem was.

 

Ill be heading over to Batteries Plus soon for that load test. I did a resistance test on the cables and it read 0.001 so theyre good. I have the starter relay on order. Ill post what the battery did later tonight.

 

Thanks, Herb

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Relay: Good.

 

Battery: Bad.

 

Replace with known good.

 

Your welcome.

[1BigDog]

OK, OK, so its a bad battery....It failed the load test....I still had 3 months of a 1 year warranty on it so it was replaced without question. But im still going to go ahead and replace the starter relay even though I suspect that the old one is still good. For a bike thats 10 years old and already had most of its electrical components replaced already, another 35 bucks aint gonna break me. Just to be safe, ya know.....

[Herb In Texas]

Glad to hear all is well again. I know when your bike is broke it is like having a sick friend you just want them well and going again as fast as possible.

Herb

[1BigDog]

Glad to hear all is well again. I know when your bike is broke it is like having a sick friend you just want them well and going again as fast as possible.

Herb

 

Yea, but sometimes you just want to put that sick friend out of its misery......

 

Thanks for all the help. And George, once again, I do really appreciate all the info you sent me.

[1BigDog]

Relay came in last night and I got it in today. Bike fired right up like it was new. All connections are clean and dialectrically greased and tight. DMM showed 13.86 at 2000 rpm and 13.35 with the bike off.

 

Thanks again for all the input....