Pulls to the left

[SilvrT]

Pretty much since day one that I got this scoot, I've noticed that it seems to want to steer to the left. If I take my hands off the grips on a flat, straightaway (and I've done this on several of them and at different positions in the lane), the bike will sart going to the left and I have to body lean (no hands remember) to the right to keep it straight. I also notice I'm constantly pulling a bit with my left hand and pushing a bit with my right (counter steering) as I feel the pressure on my hands to keep the bike on a straight line. similarly, when I take a right hand corner, it takes more counter steer pressure than it does on a left hand corner.

 

I raised this with the dealer and they road tested it...said it was hardly noticeable and offered no explanation or cure other than to suggest my handle bars were a bit "twisted" (yeahsureright). Said because they are rubber mounted, they can get that way a bit. I chalk that up to the "pull/push" added pressure I am constantly applying to keep it going straight.

 

Any ideas about this guys?

[sarges46]

I'll throw some things out there. Might be not at all what it is but here goes.

 

Fork pressures the same?

Tires original?

Improper alignment? Check by having someone follow behind you.

Sitting crooked? Dont laugh...I had a old riding partner in Vancouver that sat way over on his left side. Said it was most comfortable and he didnt even notice it until I told him.

 

The person following can also tell you this.

Anything heavy in the left saddlebag (shot in the dark)

 

Handle bars are evenly spaced?

[az1103]

Well....If this is a bike you bought new, I would do something about the front tire....

On the other hand, if you bought it used, I would take a real critical look at that fork - perhaps damaged from a front end collision - sometimes it doesn't take much. The handlebar has nothing to do with it since one doesn't judge tracking by the handlebar position.

 

On the other hand, the left lean could just be a political statement....

[BuddyRich]

You riding in a crosswind ? Or is there a higher than normal crown in the road you notice it on.

[E-Fishin-C]

I aggree with Buddyrich RE crown on the road

[saddlebum]

I aggree with Buddyrich RE crown on the road

You amaze me Charlie I never realized you knew about road crown.------I thought all you had up there were RUTS:think::rotfl:

 

On a more serious Note what about a missaligned swing arm

[GeorgeS]

Examine the Fork position mounting in the triple tree. Make sure both forks are mounted exact same height in the triple tree. Check the Torque of the bolts holding the two forks in position.

 

Carfully measure the length of the forks.

 

Drain and refill the forks with exactly the same amount of oil each side.

 

??? A few shots in the dark.

 

Did this condition change, the last time you replaced the front tire ???

[RossKean]

SilverT

 

Don't mean to hijack, but my experience may be relevant, if not particularly helpful.

 

I have the same issue and have looked at a number of things. I bought the bike (2002) last summer and although it is rideable, the pull is always there - slight but persistent to the left.

 

In response to other comments: Road crown would take it to the right (not left), no change with new tires, no loaded saddlebag on one side, never been in an accident (as far as I know), forks are even and fork pressures on both sides are equal, steering neck is tight, forks are at equal height, swingarm bearings are good, not a crosswind situation, I sit straight in the saddle etc.

 

I posted on this subject last year ( See Post ) and I have not had much luck. (Note: Made a mistake in the original posting; pull is to left, not right as per the title.) Yamaha (both dealer and corporate) haven't been any help.

 

On my bike, the front and rear wheels are not perfectly lined up (checked with a straightedge) but someone from Yamaha Corporate says that this is "normal". Also, with the front wheel blocked with the brake rotor perpendicular to the floor, there is a perceptible "tilt" to the rear wheel (top to the right and bottom to the left) checked using a carpenter's square. The forks were "checked" by the dealer and I was told everything was OK but in the absence of specifications, I'm not sure how they could tell.

 

I have not been able to get any alignment-related specifications from Yamaha to find out what the range of "normal" might be. Dealer hasn't been able to get this information either. The only thing that someone at Yamaha (Corporate) suggested was to take it to a motorcycle alignment specialist such as Computrack http://www.gmd-computrack.com/ I guess Yamaha feels their responsibilities do not extend to helping someone after expiration of warranty. (I may yet end out at Computrack but the only Canadian location is in Toronto; 1700 km from where I live. Costs would not be trivial)

 

There is no provision for alignment adjustment in the rear end of this shaft-drive, unlike belt or chain drive bikes. At this stage, my best guess is a problem with the swingarm; either bent from a bad bump or defective from day-one. Either that or there is an issue with the frame and I have no idea how to check that. This would have to have been a manufacturing defect. It might be front end, but the measurements I have made suggest that the problem is with the rear - when the rear rotor is set perpendicular, the chassis seems to have a slight lean to the right.

 

As I mentioned, this handling issue is slight but it isn't "right". I suspect that this may have been the situation from when the bike was new and perhaps I am a little fussier that the previous owner when it comes to performance/handling. Within reason, I would try anything. I would even change out the swingarm at my expense if I knew that would be the solution. Again, no specifications and can't seem to find anyone who can help diagnose or repair.

 

If you get anywhere with this, I would really appreciate finding out. I like the bike and would like to keep it for awhile.

 

Ross

 

Edit: In my original post, I mentioned Metzeler tires - same issues with new Dunlop Elite III. Oscillation of handlebars was eliminated by replacement of front tire and tightening of steering neck.

Edited July 14, 2009 by RossKean
More information

[RandyR]

I think that a bike out of alignment is dangerous. It won't stop properly if you have to jam on the brakes.

 

One way to check rear wheel alignment is to take a long straight edge (meter/yard stick) and lay it along the rear wheel towards the front of the machine. If the rear wheel isn't straight, it will be obvious.

Edited July 14, 2009 by RandyR

[Squeeze]

As i wrote already in the other Thread, it's possible to exchange the fixed Swing Arm Pivot Bolt (left Side is a fixed Bolt) against another one from the right Side, which is adjustable Bolt with Secure Nut. When you're going this Way, you're able to push the Swing Arm more to right Side and even out the Alignment. If you nee to push the Swing Arm to the left, there's a longer Bolt available here from a Suspension Guru. I think, the Bolts are the same for all the V4 Model's, at least at the Thread and Lenght Specs. Swing Arm Bearings are the same as well as the Lock Nut on the right Bolt.

 

This Knowlegde comes from the Vmaxxes, and it's an easy Task there, because the Max has Stereo Dampers on the rear and it's easy to align the Dampers after the Adjustment.

 

I don't know if that's gonna work out on your Bike, because i'm not too familar with the 2Gen Suspension and the Possiblity of adding Spacers and such. But it's worth a Look. This won't help if your rear Wheel is not upright inside the Swing Arm. Then either the Swing Arm is bent or the Frame has an serious Issue.

[V7Goose]

In response to other comments: Road crown would take it to the right (not left), ...

Just wanted to correct a technical point here - road crown causes a bike riding in the right lane to pull to the LEFT. Motorcycles have rounded tires (or at least they are SUPPOSED TO!), and one of the forces that causes a motorcycle to turn is the "coning effect" - like a road cone laid on its side, it cannot roll straight. When a bike is leaned over, the contact patch of the tire is no longer symmetrical in relationship to the road. When leaning to the left, the left side of the contact patch is further up the curve than the right side, which will be closer to the center of the tire. In effect, a leaning motorcycle tire has the shape of a very large but short traffic cone laying on its side, and when it rolls, the smaller end of the cone cannot cover as much ground, forcing the tire to turn in that direction.

 

A road crown causes the identical relationship between the road and the tire as leaning the bike to the left: the center of the road is higher, thus closer to the rider than the right side; therefore, the contact patch will be slightly shifted to the left side of the tire and causing a subtle turning force.

 

Now back to the question of the bike at hand - obviously, the road crown will affect all bikes of the same type (with similar tires) the same way, so the only real way to be certain if it is the road or the bike is to have the same rider take two bikes over the same course. If you sense both of them pull to the left, then maybe it is just you, BUT, if yours pulls to the left and the other "normal" RSV does not, then you are forced to accept the fact something is wrong with your machine.

Goose

[scotty]

When I bought mine it had a pull to the left, not bad but like you describe always there.

Here was my thinking.

If there is just a misalignment between the front and rear wheel the bike would dog track but not pull.

The front wheel has a lot of caster (keeps wheel straight), both wheels should have 0 camber. Camber was only thing that I could think of that would create a pull.

I found all pins and bushing in the swing arm had a lot of wear. Replaced them all and now it rolls just fine.

I wouldn't expect to see a bunch of wear in yours but it might not hurt to check the preload on the swing arm bearings.

I never could figure out a way to accurately measure camber. Just a thought.

[RossKean]

Goose

Interesting... I had not really considered the dynamics of the "crown effect" but (in my case) this is not the explaination. I have experienced the pull on flat roads and while riding the crown.

 

Squeeze

Whether its swingarm, forks, axle or frame (or other) I don't want to start just trying stuff. I would like to find the root cause and repair or replace as necessary. Moving the swingarm to one side might make the front and rear tires track more in line but may not affect the pull. I think it has more to do with the apparent "tilt" of the rear wheel vs. the front.

 

Again, I don't mean to hijack SilverT's thread, but this issue has been somewhat frustrating for me in terms of not being able to get any sort of definitive answer from Yamaha.

 

Ross

[Squeeze]

... I think it has more to do with the apparent "tilt" of the rear wheel vs. the front...

 

 

Well, i you don't mind tinkering a Bit, you could take out some of that Tilt by adding Spacers between Swing Arm and final Drive on the upper two Bolts of the final Drive Casing. This will cause the final Drive to lower and thereby lowering the Differential Height between left and right Side.

 

I think you could add about 1/4 Inch up to 1/3 Inch at max for a short Ride, just to see it this makes a Difference. Of Course, you need to undo rear Wheel and final Drive for doing so. This won't cause any harm at the final Drive or Drive Shaft Splines, but you can't ride for a Lenght of Time or Distance with such a Setup because Force Distribution between Swing Arm and Final Drive isn't right. If this works out, you could go forward and find a better Solution.

[usnmustang]

I wanted to chime in because my 07 RSTD has the exact same issue. Pulls to the left. Not a lot, just enough to be irritating on a longer ride. This has happened since day one and I bought it off the show room floor. Checked this on several roads, emptied saddle bags, checks fork pressure, etc. Still does it.

 

However, since the weather is warm, I went for a ride on Sunday and removed my windshield. The pull was hardly noticable then. Still there, but not nearly as bad. I am am going to carefully measure my windshield this weekend and see if maybe it's off center a little.

 

Just my .

 

I will keep following this thread, wondering how many others have had this issue.

[SilvrT]

WOW! ... lots of input... thanks guys and it's good to know I'm not just imagining it.

 

Regarding the "road crown" scenario ... as I mentioned originally, this extra "pressure" I feel in my hands is there all the time regardless of the road or where I am on the road, including when I make right-hand turns at any speed above, let's say, 20-30km/h. So, I highly doubt it's a "road crown" thing.

 

Regarding all the other possible fixes, This bike was virtually new when I got it (had 1300 km on it) last Nov. Everything is completely stock (tires, etc) and it's still under warranty so, I'm certainly not going to be the one to invest ton's of time and effort checking all those possible "fixes", albeit they are good suggestions. I think Yamaha should be doing all that under a warranty claim. However, and thanks RossKean for your "hijack":D, it appears Yamaha has no solution to this "not so uncommon issue". Along with the clutch whine (no solution) this appears to be yet another "flaw" that there is no solution provided by Yamaha.

 

Guess I'll just have to learn to live with it. I'm wondering if anyone who has had this problem noticed a change when you got rid of the stock tires and put something else on.

 

Speaking of tires, I now have 13,400 km's on the scoot and the front tire is cupping. When I had it in for the clutch basket swap, the mechanic noticed that and questioned about air pressure. I told him I am running the tires at mfg spec (36 front) so he told me to add 2 lbs. I did that to both front and rear and I immediately noticed that the bike did not try to go with the various cracks and grooves and parallel high/low spots in the road surface as badly anymore. In fact, it hardly does it at all now ... but the pull to the left is still there.

 

Oh, just to mention it, I don't run any air in the front shocks. I did try running it with 5lbs each side (and I do have the hand pump which I got from the Harley shop) but I didn't notice any difference as it pertains to this issue.

 

Don't get me wrong tho when I speak of "flaws" ... I love the bike, I think it's awesome and I enjoy riding it.

[Condor]

Pretty much since day one that I got this scoot, I've noticed that it seems to want to steer to the left. If I take my hands off the grips on a flat, straightaway (and I've done this on several of them and at different positions in the lane), the bike will sart going to the left and I have to body lean (no hands remember) to the right to keep it straight. I also notice I'm constantly pulling a bit with my left hand and pushing a bit with my right (counter steering) as I feel the pressure on my hands to keep the bike on a straight line. similarly, when I take a right hand corner, it takes more counter steer pressure than it does on a left hand corner.

 

I raised this with the dealer and they road tested it...said it was hardly noticeable and offered no explanation or cure other than to suggest my handle bars were a bit "twisted" (yeahsureright). Said because they are rubber mounted, they can get that way a bit. I chalk that up to the "pull/push" added pressure I am constantly applying to keep it going straight.

 

Any ideas about this guys?

 

Rick, any chance you have the saddle overloaded on the left side and have to compensate?? Since it's a new2U bike, could it possibly have a 'worst case senerio' bent frame??? It shouldn't pull!!!

[RossKean]

SilverT

I am also enjoying the bike but I really want to get things fixed. I replaced the front (Metzeler) when I first got the bike with no improvement in "pull". I just replaced both tires with Dunlop Elite IIIs. I am running 40 psi front and 42 rear. Nice tires but no improvement. I have also messed with air in the front shocks - anything from 0-7lb; making sure both are equal - no difference.

 

...Guess I'll just have to learn to live with it. I'm wondering if anyone who has had this problem noticed a change when you got rid of the stock tires and put something else on.

 

Speaking of tires, I now have 13,400 km's on the scoot and the front tire is cupping. When I had it in for the clutch basket swap, the mechanic noticed that and questioned about air pressure. I told him I am running the tires at mfg spec (36 front) so he told me to add 2 lbs. I did that to both front and rear and I immediately noticed that the bike did not try to go with the various cracks and grooves and parallel high/low spots in the road surface as badly anymore. In fact, it hardly does it at all now ... but the pull to the left is still there.

 

Oh, just to mention it, I don't run any air in the front shocks. I did try running it with 5lbs each side (and I do have the hand pump which I got from the Harley shop) but I didn't notice any difference as it pertains to this issue.

 

Don't get me wrong tho when I speak of "flaws" ... I love the bike, I think it's awesome and I enjoy riding it.

[SilvrT]

Rick, any chance you have the saddle overloaded on the left side and have to compensate?? Since it's a new2U bike, could it possibly have a 'worst case senerio' bent frame??? It shouldn't pull!!!

 

Well, about all I have in the left saddle is a few "emergency" tools. Not a lot of weight there. As for the "bent frame", I am hard pressed to believe that this scoot has been in an accident or has come from factory with such a flaw. Having said that tho, I suppose there is a remote chance (even with only 1300 kms when I bought it) that the PO did smack it up and it was repaired but I've done some pretty close inspecting of this bike, had the fairing off several times, gas tank off, side bags off, rear wheel off, seats off .... absolutely no sign of any damage or repairs of any kind. Other than a bit of dust, it looks very "factory" to me.

 

Let me clarify; however, just in case some are hearing more than what I'm saying ... the pull to the left is VERY SLIGHT ... but it is there and it is noticeable. Come to think of it tho (and I just now remembered this) .... neither my '85 or my '87 would track straight when I took my hands off the bars but I never felt any need to compensate while driving them.

 

This may just be one of those "natures of the beast" things that a person has to get used to. It appears I'm not the only one who is experiencing it.

[CrazyHorse]

Mine goes slightly left also not sure if its from my crash though. I also readd somewhere that our rear tire is offset from the front. I cant remember where I saw this though.

[V7Goose]

SilverT

I am also enjoying the bike but I really want to get things fixed. I replaced the front (Metzeler) when I first got the bike with no improvement in "pull". I just replaced both tires with Dunlop Elite IIIs. I am running 40 psi front and 42 rear. Nice tires but no improvement. I have also messed with air in the front shocks - anything from 0-7lb; making sure both are equal - no difference.

If you are running an E3 in the back, that is too much air - the sidewall on that tire shows a MAX pressure of 40 lbs.

 

I don't think that will affect the pulling issue (I'm sure you have something else wrong with the bike), but I know from personal experience that too much pressure in the rear tire WILL negatively affect the handling of an RSV. This is especially noticeable in long curves when loaded. It was very noticeable with Avon Venoms at 50 lbs (not over inflated by tire max, but handling improved at 48 and below) and with Pirelli MT66 at anything over the sidewall max of 40 (just like the E3). I didn't deliberately over-inflate the Pirelli, just forgot to check the sidewall when I first installed it and put in the same pressure I normally ran on Venoms. Poor handling clued me it.

Goose

[RossKean]

Goose

 

Thanks for the heads-up on the Elite III pressure. I may have read it but obviously forgot and aired the rear up to what I used to run. Will fix it but I'm sure it has nothing to do with my problem.

 

Ross

[saddlebum]

After my bike was in an accident I checked my alignment as follows

1. I stood the bike up on its center stand with a thin wooden tapered shim under each leg
   
2. using an accurate level on the rear wheel i adjusted the shims under the centerstand until the rear wheel was dead plumb (check from both side of the wheel for accuracy)
   
3. Run a string line around the back of the rear tire up along both sides pulled tite and make sure it only just lightly touches or brushes against the front of the rear wheel (you can also use two straight edges one on each side or two laser pointers)
   
4. Set the front wheel straight ahead it should be dead center between the two striaght lines coming from the back wheel
   
5. using the level check to see if it is verticaly plumb to the rear wheel.
   

this may be somewhat crude but it works just take your time

 

In my opinion (and I could be wrong) if both wheels are not blumb to each other the rear wheel will once spinning under power will want to become dead vertical. the front wheel if not verticaly true to the rear wheel will lean and whichever way the top of the wheel leans is the way the bike will want to pull or steer itself. as mentioned earlier the cone effect takes control.

[SilvrT]

After my bike was in an accident I checked my alignment as follows

1. I stood the bike up on its center stand with a thin wooden tapered shim under each leg
   
2. using an accurate level on the rear wheel i adjusted the shims under the centerstand until the rear wheel was dead plumb (check from both side of the wheel for accuracy)
   
3. Run a string line around the back of the rear tire up along both sides pulled tite and make sure it only just lightly touches or brushes against the front of the rear wheel (you can also use two straight edges one on each side or two laser pointers)
   
4. Set the front wheel straight ahead it should be dead center between the two striaght lines coming from the back wheel
   
5. using the level check to see if it is verticaly plumb to the rear wheel.
   

this may be somewhat crude but it works just take your time

 

In my opinion (and I could be wrong) if both wheels are not blumb to each other the rear wheel will once spinning under power will want to become dead vertical. the front wheel if not verticaly true to the rear wheel will lean and whichever way the top of the wheel leans is the way the bike will want to pull or steer itself. as mentioned earlier the cone effect takes control.

 

Good input... now how do you fix it?

[SilvrT]

I didn't re-read all the posts to see who mentioned this but thanks for the suggestion. I did a bit of testing of where I was positioned on the seat and to my surprise, a slight adjustment of my butt to the right which changes where my body weight is centred and holy crap!! ... I no longer felt that the bike wanted to steer to the left. I even noticed a difference doing a right hand corner. I was in somewhat disbelief initially so I moved back on the seat to where I originally was and there was that left pull sensation I was feeling in my hands which forced me to apply counter-steer pressure. Moved back to the right a bit on the seat and counter steer pressure was no longer needed.

 

So, seems the problem is solved and I didn't even take anything apart LOL. I've never felt this on other scoots before and it surprised me that such a slight adjustment in seating position would have such an effect.