2nd Gen Valve Adjustment

[Thistledown]

I just called 4 dealers in the Newport News,Richmond, Fredricksburg , Va area and got the following prices for just valve adjustments: $280,$280.$237.$450. It would seem that for those of us whose bikes are still under warranty that this might be a good thing to have the dealer do. When I look at the cost of the tool and the kit and extra shims and the fact that this is somthing that I will only do lets say now and then again at say 100,00 I may not be worth it. I will admitt though that taking my bike to a dealer scares the crap out of me, i had them do the required 600 mile check but now 48000 I've done everything else myself. As I said in an earleir post, I would like to do it if we could get a group together.

[FreezyRider]

I just called 4 dealers in the Newport News,Richmond, Fredricksburg , Va area and got the following prices for just valve adjustments: $280,$280.$237.$450. It would seem that for those of us whose bikes are still under warranty that this might be a good thing to have the dealer do. When I look at the cost of the tool and the kit and extra shims and the fact that this is somthing that I will only do lets say now and then again at say 100,00 I may not be worth it. I will admitt though that taking my bike to a dealer scares the crap out of me, i had them do the required 600 mile check but now 48000 I've done everything else myself. As I said in an earleir post, I would like to do it if we could get a group together.

 

I may be wrong, but I doubt that this service is a covered warranty item. It's like having to replace tires or change oil.....it is a regularly scheduled maintenance item, not a defect that must be repaired.

Good luck.

 

Joe

[V7Goose]

I may be wrong, but I doubt that this service is a covered warranty item. It's like having to replace tires or change oil.....it is a regularly scheduled maintenance item, not a defect that must be repaired.

Good luck.

Joe

I don't think he was suggesting the service would be covered under warranty, just that it might be a bit safer to keep the warranty is effect; therefore, cost justified.

 

IMHO, considering how much work is involved, anything under $300 is certainly very fair, and I would actually expect the normal cost to be more than that - closer to $400 or even $500.

 

But I also don't think there is any warranty risk to do this yourself. There is very little warranty repair that would ever be related to misadjusted valves, and even then, the burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove that something you did (or did not do) caused the failure. If you have any record at all that you performed the valve check as specified in the service manual, there is almost no way they could ever deny warranty work, even for a burned valve. This record can be something as simple as a note you make on the service record (legally called a "contemporaneous record" if you make the notes when the events actually happen), and it is strengthened by any receipts for supplies needed by that service, such as the valve cover gaskets. Contemporaneous records are legal for the IRS, so they darned tootin' should stand up against Yamahaha!

 

Goose

[Ponch]

IMHO, considering how much work is involved, anything under $300 is certainly very fair, and I would actually expect the normal cost to be more than that - closer to $400 or even $500.

 

When mine was due (14,000 miles ago), I priced the job at three dealers. I also got a wide range (from $200.00 to $400.00). After having done this, I think the job is well worth $400.00, especially at dealer ship per hour rates. I was too cheap to pay it .

Having said this, there is no way I would let my dealer do this as long as I could still twist wrenches. To me this was a lot of fun. The companionship I enjoyed with brother VR.org members and getting to know some I didn't know that well was an added plus.

Get a shim kit, the valve tool, some reference materials and go to it. Better yet, have a valve maintenance party with some folks who have done it before. Just don't tear too many bikes down at one time.

[FreezyRider]

I don't think he was suggesting the service would be covered under warranty, just that it might be a bit safer to keep the warranty is effect; therefore, cost justified.

 

IMHO, considering how much work is involved, anything under $300 is certainly very fair, and I would actually expect the normal cost to be more than that - closer to $400 or even $500.

 

But I also don't think there is any warranty risk to do this yourself. There is very little warranty repair that would ever be related to misadjusted valves, and even then, the burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove that something you did (or did not do) caused the failure. If you have any record at all that you performed the valve check as specified in the service manual, there is almost no way they could ever deny warranty work, even for a burned valve. This record can be something as simple as a note you make on the service record (legally called a "contemporaneous record" if you make the notes when the events actually happen), and it is strengthened by any receipts for supplies needed by that service, such as the valve cover gaskets. Contemporaneous records are legal for the IRS, so they darned tootin' should stand up against Yamahaha!

 

Goose

 

 

Ahhhhh......I didn't interpret it that way, but in rereading it I see that it could be. Thanks.

Joe

[N3FOL]

When mine was due (14,000 miles ago), I priced the job at three dealers. I also got a wide range (from $200.00 to $400.00). After having done this, I think the job is well worth $400.00, especially at dealer ship per hour rates. I was too cheap to pay it .

 

Having said this, there is no way I would let my dealer do this as long as I could still twist wrenches. To me this was a lot of fun. The companionship I enjoyed with brother VR.org members and getting to know some I didn't know that well was an added plus.

 

Get a shim kit, the valve tool, some reference materials and go to it. Better yet, have a valve maintenance party with some folks who have done it before. Just don't tear too many bikes down at one time.

 

Adjusting valves on a motorcycle I think is not too difficult, since I have done numerous valve adjustments on a car in my lifetime + lots of help in this forum if you get into a roadblock. I think the key here is to read about it and understand the concept and take your time and have all the parts on hand before starting the project. I also don't think that I can take my bike to a dealership and have them do the adjustment and pay at least $300 + for the work.

 

Acquiring a valve tool is not expensive. What is a waste of money IMO is to buy a complete shim kit and only use certain sizes, if needed. If there is a Venture Rider Shim Kit that can be rented (with a deposit) and if you use certain sizes in that kit and replace them with new ones when finished may be a good approach to this shim kit dilemna. Once the kit has been returned to the rightful caretaker, the deposit can be refunded...the benefit here...members can also throw in their used shims in the kit for other members to use.

[Ponch]

What is a waste of money IMO is to buy a complete shim kit and only use certain sizes, if needed. If there is a Venture Rider Shim Kit that can be rented (with a deposit) and if you use certain sizes in that kit and replace them with new ones when finished may be a good approach to this shim kit dilemna. Once the kit has been returned to the rightful caretaker, the deposit can be refunded...the benefit here...members can also throw in their used shims in the kit for other members to use.

 

If nobody has one near you, I'll send you mine (when I get it). You replace any shims taken w/ the ones you remove and send it back. You won't even need to buy the tool.

Ponch

[N3FOL]

If nobody has one near you, I'll send you mine (when I get it). You replace any shims taken w/ the ones you remove and send it back. You won't even need to buy the tool.

 

Ponch

 

Ponch, I will happily accept that offer. Right now, I don't need to have a valve adjustment soon but I will certainly contact you once I am ready.

[Seaking]

I called the 2 Yamaha'ish dealerships in town here about doing a valve adjustment on my 06 RSV and they couldn't quote me a price right away as they never done one before.. (too busy selling bikes than doing any maintenance training I'm guessing)..

 

There are a lot of jobs I'm not afraid to do on my bike but digging into the engine's guts is something I'm hesitant about..

 

There so many tasks I'm reading that you guys dig into it would be great to learn how with a hands on seminar akin to your Maintenance Days.. unfortunately, we're up here in Nova Scotia.. I'm heading out to see someone in Pennsylvania next month about brakes. Perhaps later or next year I can manage a trip down to Texas to see the group and get some 'learnin' under my belt..

 

I'm currently installing leveling links and synching up carbs for other RSV riders in my area, and showing how to ride the revs up for more fun riding experience.. I'd love to be able to do more but would love the opportunity to learn hands on by some experts..

 

I know them wrench turners at the dealerships are 'certified' but they worry me when they can't answer a simpler question.. =( One looked at me and asked "how many CC's are Ventures??" let alone remembering it has 4 cylindres when I asked to purchase spark plugs.. Erhm could I have 4 of them please.. it's for a Venture after all.. and all I got back was blink blink.. there's light behind them eyes if you look close enough..

[RedRider]

Just called my dealer (and they are a pretty good one) and asked about a valve shim adjustment. With tax, just under $250 - not bad.

 

I also asked about setting the float levels - $350 - ouch!

 

I advised the service manager that I will probably be doing these both myself and asked about exchanging shims. He stated that they would just swap shims if they have what I need. Call him when I am doing it and he will check to see if they have the right shim in one of the tech's kits. They will swap them straight up.

 

I am lucky to have a good dealer to work with.

 

RR

[V7Goose]

Just called my dealer (and they are a pretty good one) and asked about a valve shim adjustment. With tax, just under $250 - not bad.

 

I also asked about setting the float levels - $350 - ouch!

 

I advised the service manager that I will probably be doing these both myself and asked about exchanging shims. He stated that they would just swap shims if they have what I need. Call him when I am doing it and he will check to see if they have the right shim in one of the tech's kits. They will swap them straight up.

 

I am lucky to have a good dealer to work with.

RR

That makes me think they didn't really check the book on the estimated time for the valves, and they probably have very little real experience working on these bikes. Setting the floats is much less real work than checking the valves!

Goose

[pktexas]

Goose, what would be some signs of a RSV needing a valve adjustment on a routine maintenance schedule. The reason I ask is that my 05 RSV has over 27500, took it to the dealer last week to get a new Avon rear tire after over 13k on it. So I asked them about the 27k valve check. The service guy at the dealer gave me the price of 450, but he said they would see if it needed it. He later called and told me not to spend the money on it. The bike runs great, sounds fine and I still get around 38-43 mpg depending on riding.

 

Great write up on the procedure, I do my own valve adjustments on my 1100, but the RSV looks a little more involved. But hope to learn it someday. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

[V7Goose]

Goose, what would be some signs of a RSV needing a valve adjustment on a routine maintenance schedule. The reason I ask is that my 05 RSV has over 27500, took it to the dealer last week to get a new Avon rear tire after over 13k on it. So I asked them about the 27k valve check. The service guy at the dealer gave me the price of 450, but he said they would see if it needed it. He later called and told me not to spend the money on it. The bike runs great, sounds fine and I still get around 38-43 mpg depending on riding.

 

Great write up on the procedure, I do my own valve adjustments on my 1100, but the RSV looks a little more involved. But hope to learn it someday. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately, there are generally no signs that a valve adjustment is needed until way past the safe point. Our engine usually has the valves get tighter as they wear, not looser, so there is no noise. At the point your MPG drops dramatically you probably have a valve that is not closing, which can cause a burnt valve and an expensive repair. The only safe route is to check the valves on the schedule provided by Yamaha (every 27,000 miles).

Goose

[g man]

this among carb adjustment i would like to be able to do myself.do not trust dealer.i have tool and manual and your article makes it a lot clearer but not confident enough first time around.are you or know of someone who would teach me on this procedure hands on. ciao g man

[N3FOL]

this among carb adjustment i would like to be able to do myself.do not trust dealer.i have tool and manual and your article makes it a lot clearer but not confident enough first time around.are you or know of someone who would teach me on this procedure hands on. ciao g man

 

I am interested on watching how this Valve Adjustmnet is done on the Venture...will keep an eye on this thread.

[V7Goose]

I'm happy to help anybody, but you're probably gonna have to ride that thing down here to Texas to get me involved.

Goose

[Seaking]

I'm happy to help anybody, but you're probably gonna have to ride that thing down here to Texas to get me involved.

Goose

 

Hi Goose, how much time is involved to get this bit of maintenance done? I'll be down your neck of the woods in May/June and would be interested in having you show me how this is done seeing how my 2006 Midnight has over 55.000 miles on it..

 

Cheers M8

[V7Goose]

The valves are a full day job - 6 to 8 hours.

Goose

[ffjoe]

When I set TDC in the observation hole and try to measure valve clearance on #1 cylinder the cams are facing away from each other at about 5 and 7 o'clock but they are still depressing the shims. When I roll the cam and watch, I can see the shims rise and the cam finally having a clearance on exhaust valves. The bike ran fine so I know it's not out of time. What is the cam lobe's position in relation to the shim supposed to be to measure the clearance?

[Semi-retired]

There is a LOT involved in this job. It needs to be done, but it is probably worth whatever you local shop is charging.

 

I think that is about it. Let me know if you think I have missed something or you have any questions!

Goose

 

Hey, Kent......thanks for the magnificent post! I LOVE being able to review all the things MY DEALER will be doing for me, to prevent cussing a blue streak, taking my bike out of commission for two weeks.......and ripping the skin off three or four knuckles!! :-) As you say, it's WORTH paying him to do it.

 

I already phoned the dealer and got the quote...2.5 shop hours at $86 per hr......so it works out to just about the cost you mention. However, I'm curious to know how in heck these guys do it in that short a timeframe IF, in fact, they do everything YOU'VE listed here.

 

I know they're good.......but are they as THOROUGH as "we" would be?

 

Are there NO shortcuts they take that you may not be aware of? I'd love to hang around the shop and watch them do my job, but of course the chances of that happening are one in a thousand......or worse!

 

New subject:

You mention doing a coolant change at the same time. (It only makes sense if you've got things torn down this far.)

 

Is there anything else that SHOULD be done at the same time.....given the state of dis-assembly?

It would be interesting to know this ahead of time so that a) I can INSTRUCT them to do things I WANT, so I can economize with regard to THEIR shoptime and my bike's DOWNTIME.......and b) so I can anticipate the list of things they'll SUGGEST I have them do "while they're in there"!

 

Thanks for any tips.

 

Michael

Edited March 10, 2015 by Semi-retired
typo

[Semi-retired]

Hi Goose, how much time is involved to get this bit of maintenance done? I'll be down your neck of the woods in May/June and would be interested in having you show me how this is done seeing how my 2006 Midnight has over 55.000 miles on it..

 

Cheers M8

 

That's the OTHER thing I meant to ask in my post to Goose: How DEADLY CRITICAL is it to check the valve shims on the manufacturer's recommended schedule?

 

I ask because: I haven't had this done in 55,000 kilometers........but Seaking (and I know OTHERS) haven't had it done in 55,000 MILES!!!.......and I don't hear many stories about burned valves.

 

So, on a scale of 1 to 10........where's this fall?

 

Also, given that it IS such an "intrusive" maintenance item, is there no way other than DOING IT.......to determine whether you actually NEED IT?? i.e. WITHOUT spending the $300 at the shop?

 

Seems like a crazy question, I know......but to me, it sounds sort of like doing a heart transplant.......just IN CASE you might have a heart attack.

 

I think of it as being (somewhat) analogous to tearing your engine right down to the crankshaft in order to check your mainbearing clearances. You'd NEVER do that, however.

 

So, what are the "possible" consequences of not chequing valve clearances?

 

Burned valve face. Burned valve seat. Both. Resulting compression loss. Out-of-balance combustion.

 

So, how would the cost of replacing a burned valve compare? Anybody BURNED a valve or two on their Venture by NOT checking clearances?

 

Just askin.

[djh3]

I would say a definate 8-10. Partially because you need some special tools, and definate mechanical skills that will make it more tollarable.

I would ask your dealer what all is included in his check. Because I cant think of a way to really "cheat" anything time wise. Also he should state he is going to put new gaskets, anti freeze etc. I would go ahead and put a set of plugs in it.

[Semi-retired]

Good response, Dion, thanks! I appreciate your getting back to me......AND I appreciate what you're saying. (I was WONDERING if anyone would make the "sparkplug comment"; it's a DEFINITE must-do......normally......and I WOULD do it except that I just replaced them last summer! Thanks, though.)

 

And, yes, the dealer says they would normally do a coolant flush at the same time.

 

I guess I'll let them go ahead and do it THIS TIME. (I rode the bike over yesterday during our first 7 deg Celsius day since last November. That's 44 for you folks! Speaking of which......I understand you set record temperatures down your way yesterday!?! Why couldn't you do that when I was down there........two weeks ago! :-) )

 

Cheers,

Michael

[djh3]

We did !!! Only It was the other way I think, cold for that time of year. LOL Go figure.

[V7Goose]

I have entered some answers and comments in your quotes below (see the blue text).

Goose

Hey, Kent......thanks for the magnificent post! I LOVE being able to review all the things MY DEALER will be doing for me, to prevent cussing a blue streak, taking my bike out of commission for two weeks.......and ripping the skin off three or four knuckles!! :-) As you say, it's WORTH paying him to do it.

 

I already phoned the dealer and got the quote...2.5 shop hours at $86 per hr......so it works out to just about the cost you mention. However, I'm curious to know how in heck these guys do it in that short a timeframe IF, in fact, they do everything YOU'VE listed here.

 

I have my doubts about their estimate of 2.5 hours (see similar comments in post #86 above). Remember that there aren't really many of these bikes around, so some shops either never see them, or maybe less than 1 per year. The valve check on MOST other bikes is much less involved than the RSV, so they might just be giving you and estimated guess instead of actually looking up the Yamaha time spec for this job. There really isn't much involved to just removing a valve cover and sticking in a feeler gauge on each valve - our problem is how much stuff has to be done BEFORE you can remove the valve cover!

 

I am not a professional mechanic, and I have never raced through this job to see just how fast I could actually do it - I prefer to take my time and think about what I am doing. But I have a very hard time imagining any way they could do it right in such a short time even if they do not change a single shim.

I know they're good.......but are they as THOROUGH as "we" would be?

 

Are there NO shortcuts they take that you may not be aware of? I'd love to hang around the shop and watch them do my job, but of course the chances of that happening are one in a thousand......or worse!

 

New subject:

You mention doing a coolant change at the same time. (It only makes sense if you've got things torn down this far.)

 

Is there anything else that SHOULD be done at the same time.....given the state of dis-assembly?

It would be interesting to know this ahead of time so that a) I can INSTRUCT them to do things I WANT, so I can economize with regard to THEIR shoptime and my bike's DOWNTIME.......and b) so I can anticipate the list of things they'll SUGGEST I have them do "while they're in there"!

 

Unfortunately, most shops will not "economize" their time for multiple jobs - if you find one that does, then hang on to them! The majority of non-independent mechanics these days use the manufacturer's time and materials estimates for each job, no matter if they are doing one or twelve at the same time.

 

As for other things to do, the most important is to set the carb floats correctly and properly cleaning the jets while they are opened up. To me this is a no-brainier if the carbs are already removed, and it requires very little additional effort, but if they use the separate job pricing method, it will be several hundreds more bucks!

 

Thanks for any tips.

 

Michael

 

That's the OTHER thing I meant to ask in my post to Goose: How DEADLY CRITICAL is it to check the valve shims on the manufacturer's recommended schedule?

 

I ask because: I haven't had this done in 55,000 kilometers........but Seaking (and I know OTHERS) haven't had it done in 55,000 MILES!!!.......and I don't hear many stories about burned valves.

 

So, on a scale of 1 to 10........where's this fall?

 

Very tough to answer this. I think it is important to be somewhere near the estimated miles, but there is no magical critical number. Look at it this way, the maintenance spec for any item is the time when the factory is pretty darned sure that no damage will ever happen if you wait that long, but every mile after the spec adds some minor increased risk. A lot of miles changes that "minor" to "major". The idea of checking valves is to catch any that are drifting out of the clearance spec BEFORE they change so much that they actually do cause damage. Also note that our spec of 27,000 miles is already close to double what many other bikes call for!

 

Also, given that it IS such an "intrusive" maintenance item, is there no way other than DOING IT.......to determine whether you actually NEED IT?? i.e. WITHOUT spending the $300 at the shop?

 

No, absolutely no way. Any test that shows a problem, such as a compression or leak-down test, is showing you that it is already way too late!

 

Seems like a crazy question, I know......but to me, it sounds sort of like doing a heart transplant.......just IN CASE you might have a heart attack.

 

I think of it as being (somewhat) analogous to tearing your engine right down to the crankshaft in order to check your mainbearing clearances. You'd NEVER do that, however.

 

So, what are the "possible" consequences of not chequing valve clearances?

 

Burned valve face. Burned valve seat. Both. Resulting compression loss. Out-of-balance combustion.

 

So, how would the cost of replacing a burned valve compare? Anybody BURNED a valve or two on their Venture by NOT checking clearances?

 

Just askin.