OT: New Harley

[tsigwing]

Guy at work just bought a new 2009 Harley Davidson Softail Custom. Was checking it out and it is an ok bike, seems kinda small and plain, but he really likes it so that is cool. Asked him if the dealer was hard to deal with on price and he told be that he got $1500 off of sticker, and I thought that was pretty good...until he told me he paid $19k OTD for it. I was in shock. $19k and it is bone stock, no shield, no bags nothing. Ouch. To each their own.

[Guest seuadr]

yep.

 

don't get me wrong, harleys are fine motorcycles, but you pay a price tag that reflects and image, and get an average bike.

 

when you go to many other dealerships, you get a higher quality bike, but at a lower price, because it doesn't have that image.

 

the harley ad guys are freaking geniuses.

 

you combine that with it being very forgiving and effortless at low speeds, and you've got a bike that sells like mad, regardless of pricetag.

[frogmaster]

What kills me is:

 

Vibration Vibration Vibration

Lack of Power (disguised by loud pipes... HP is NOT equal to Loudness)!!!

Lack of Reliability

Lack of Waranty

Overpriced accessories

Overpriced MSRP.

Comsumer Reports would have HD for Lunch!!!

 

Kind of like a Mini General Motors... So stuck on themselves and not listening to Customers = Bad Business.

 

2 cents

[minnmac]

i believe 10 to 20% of a new harley,s price is the "membership" in a lifestlye, club, mystique, image or whatever you call it. lots of brands figured this out. levi,s jeans, corvette, smith&wesson. good products plus a premium for the name. glad metric bikes never could pull it off.

[Snarley Bill]

in defense of harley, a friend has a softtail heritage classic. he parks it next to my wing at work. he gave over $19,000 for it. i gave $16,750 for my wing. no comparison in value. the wings got it beat hands down for luxury and technology. but the chrome and finish on the harley is impeccable. it has all the asthetic extras as standard equipment. fender tips with lights, inlayed seat. lots of quality chrome, fancy high dollar paint job, etc. all this really adds to the cost. they are well finished beautiful bikes. just a little on the low tech side for the times and the money. the one thing that blows my mind is it has spoked wheels with inner tubes, and a single front disc brake. he asked me what happens if a tire blows out on the highway. i told him you may as well kiss your okole good by, cuz the tire won't stay seated on the rim. been there done that. i recommended he get some good wheels and tubeless tires to be safe. now he's scared to ride it. go figure. oh, it is his first bike and his wife bought it for him as a surprise. he wanted a 1300 v-star.

[midnightventure]

yep.

 

don't get me wrong, harleys are fine motorcycles, but you pay a price tag that reflects and image, and get an average bike.

 

when you go to many other dealerships, you get a higher quality bike, but at a lower price, because it doesn't have that image.

 

the harley ad guys are freaking geniuses.

 

you combine that with it being very forgiving and effortless at low speeds, and you've got a bike that sells like mad, regardless of pricetag.

 

You pay extra money because it is built by Americans.

[Reaney in NH]

But its not.... its only assembled in America ... the parts are made overseas.

 

A few years ago I got in a heated discusion with a guy giving me crap about my GL1500 Goldwing being made in Japan. I looked it up on the net.

 

77% of the Goldwing was made in America and its assembled here.... only 63% of the Harley Ultra was.

 

So much for American made.

 

 

 

You pay extra money because it is built by Americans.

[buddy]

Friend of mine has the new Harley tourer, he has taken it back several times for the over heating problem and wished he kept his older Harley tourer now.

Boy it is a beautiful bike and the paint job is awesome too and it sounds so good... I wont mind having one but then again I do not have that kinda of money either...

[Yammer Dan]

You pay extra money because it is built by Americans.

 

 

 

Just not very smart ones!!:rotfl:

[Guest seuadr]

But its not.... its only assembled in America ... the parts are made overseas.

 

A few years ago I got in a heated discusion with a guy giving me crap about my GL1500 Goldwing being made in Japan. I looked it up on the net.

 

77% of the Goldwing was made in America and its assembled here.... only 63% of the Harley Ultra was.

 

So much for American made.

honda, and yamaha have plants in america, i believe i read somewhere that suzuki do as well.

 

it's just like GM and their "built in america" campaign.. honda,hyunda, and toyotas all have as many, if not more parts from america, and many models are assembled in america.

 

nevermind the fact that many "american" cars are using mitsubishi and toyota motors.

 

 

i have no problem with these brands at all.. just selling an image, and the reality aren't always the same.

[kyle]

:Avatars_Gee_George:i rode an 2009 ultra a couple weeks ago about 15 miles on 2 lane. 1] vibrates to much at idle 2] felt small and kinda cheap. 3] way to much engine heat 4] rode fairly decent 5] $22,000 no flip'n way. i know my stock 2005 rsv would crush it in a straight line and maybe the twisties " tires+ courage". i love the big heavy yammy and pity the rest, for they truly do not know.

[BuckShot]

in defense of harley, a friend has a softtail heritage classic. he parks it next to my wing at work. he gave over $19,000 for it. i gave $16,750 for my wing. no comparison in value. the wings got it beat hands down for luxury and technology. but the chrome and finish on the harley is impeccable. it has all the asthetic extras as standard equipment. fender tips with lights, inlayed seat. lots of quality chrome, fancy high dollar paint job, etc. all this really adds to the cost. they are well finished beautiful bikes. just a little on the low tech side for the times and the money. the one thing that blows my mind is it has spoked wheels with inner tubes, and a single front disc brake. he asked me what happens if a tire blows out on the highway. i told him you may as well kiss your okole good by, cuz the tire won't stay seated on the rim. been there done that. i recommended he get some good wheels and tubeless tires to be safe. now he's scared to ride it. go figure. oh, it is his first bike and his wife bought it for him as a surprise. he wanted a 1300 v-star.

 

Son just had a flat on the front of his 05 sportster Sunday. No problem---took him the portable air tank, added air, got half way home and added air again. Tire stayed on rim.

[Terry Richardson]

I would trust my 87 Venture Royale across the country way before trusting an 09 Ultra. I have several friends with Ultras and softails and they all seem to spend time in the shop far more often than any rice burners I know. Not to mention, I enjoy the quiet smooth ride of my 87 over the loud headache pipes of the Harleys. Just my 1.2 (inflation) cents worth.

[midnightventure]

There are no Goldwings being built in the US anymore. There used to be a Kawasaki plant in Neb. I had an American made Kawasaki. Never heard of a American made Yamaha or Suzuki motorcycle. Those guys putting together the Harleys are doing a lot more for the economy than Honda of Japan selling cars and motorcycles to Honda of America and Honda of America never shows a profit. All the profit goes overseas. Even the Japanese car plants here in the states are just a drop in the bucket compared to the imported vehicles they sell. Some of the same people that complain about high Harley prices will go pay 10000 more dollars for a Japanese vehicle than a comparable American vehicle.

Bill Madole who drives a 2003 GMC Sonoma that only cost 12,300 brand new.

[jfoster]

One thing I do like about the HD's is their fuel mileage...On our last outing my 06 RSTD avg 37 mpg and an 02 HD RK avg 47 mpg and an 06 HD EG avg 40 mpg.

[OldBear]

The new Harley tourers aren't "bad" bikes, but they are (1) EXPENSIVE, (2) HOT, and (3) slow. I looked pretty hard at an Ultra and it was OK, but I couldn't get past they above issues. I'm not into dressing like a pirate, so the whole "lifestyle" thing doesn't matter to me.

 

Bought the RSV and haven't looked back ('cept when I passed a guy on a new Ultra the day before yesterday:innocent-emoticon:)

[ArcsSparks]

But its not.... its only assembled in America ... the parts are made overseas.

 

A few years ago I got in a heated discusion with a guy giving me crap about my GL1500 Goldwing being made in Japan. I looked it up on the net.

 

77% of the Goldwing was made in America and its assembled here.... only 63% of the Harley Ultra was.

 

So much for American made.

 

But where do the profits go?

[Snarley Bill]

You pay extra money because it is built by Americans.

so was my goldwing, built in ohio.

[sdive]

What kills me is:

 

Vibration Vibration Vibration

Lack of Power (disguised by loud pipes... HP is NOT equal to Loudness)!!!

Lack of Reliability

Lack of Waranty

Overpriced accessories

Overpriced MSRP.

Comsumer Reports would have HD for Lunch!!!

 

Kind of like a Mini General Motors... So stuck on themselves and not listening to Customers = Bad Business.

 

2 cents

 

Cmon now 95% of all Harley's made are still on the road today, the rest made it home LOL:whistling:

[Snarley Bill]

honda is building a new plant in japan and the all new 2011 wing will be built there. i think all the 09 and 2010 wings are being built in ohio. besides if we are so up on bikes being made with american labor ,why are we riding rice burners? i will tell you why i ride them. because there is no american owned manufacturer that builds any thing i would be interested in. i wish they did. harley sold alot of foreign bikes over the years alot of them were made by armachi. harley just bought an italian motorcycle company and will be selling sportbikes in the usa. the v-rod engine was designed by porch. harley uses keihen carbs and injection and showi suspension. i have never owned a foreign car although my ford ranger is a mazda. and i accidently bought my last escort before i found out it was made in mexico. i swore i would never buy a car made in a foreign country.bill

[Guest seuadr]

Never heard of a American made Yamaha or Suzuki motorcycle.

I didn't dig deep enough on this, turns out yamaha builds musical insturments, and small engines, including outboards in the US, but not motorcycles.

 

Suzuki builds trucks, along with mazda in america, but not motorcycles.

 

Some of the same people that complain about high Harley prices will go pay 10000 more dollars for a Japanese vehicle than a comparable American vehicle.

Bill Madole who drives a 2003 GMC Sonoma that only cost 12,300 brand new.

 

i dunno about other people, but i ended up buying a foreign car because it was cheaper than the comparable US made car, with more features, better gas mileage, and a 20 year drivetrain warranty, as well as a 6 year bumper to bumper unlimited mileage warranty.

 

I wanted a cobalt. I went to get a cobalt. 3 year limited warranty, dealer told me i had to pay extra for it. i'm sure that was probably the dealer being a greedy guy, though. 22,000 dollars for the base cobalt i was interested in. an extra 1200 dollars to match the features of the mitsubishi i looked at. plus the mitsu handled better, and got better gas mileage rated under the new stricter epa regulations, while the cobalt was rated under the old. had a 5 star crash test rating, and 9 total airbags. all while costing 18,000 dollars.

 

while i have nothing against the big three, infact, i've been a buick man most of my life, they just aren't offering competitivly priced and optioned cars in some catagories. It's a very complicated problem, the blame doesn't fall on any one specific body, gm's leaders are at fault. Their selection occasionally of parts suppliers, the UAW sure didn't help the situation, and Us as the american public and what we seemed to want and need not really matching up with eachother. there is obviously no simple solution, but offering competitive cars with competitive features and toss in a big warranty will do a hell of alot to inspire more buyer confidence.

 

i swore i would never buy a car made in a foreign country.bill

My buick was assembled in canada, from parts from all over the world, my wife's tarus has parts fro mall over the world, and says some assembly may have occured in mexico. My buddy's sonoma was actually assembled in the US, but he gets rebranded parts from mexico and tawian when he orders delco parts. there ARE no 100% american cars.

 

even these cars assembled in america.. the parts are comming from low paid unskilled labor around the world.. which does nothing to support our economy.

[Freebird]

This is a complicated subject. It can be argued many different ways. Somebody asked "where do the profits go"...well...I'm sure that much of the profit goes to the country where the company is based. What do they do with those profits though? That is the real question. At least some of those profits end up being invested in new plants and equipment in the USA. What is better? If you buy a Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler, etc. that is made in Mexico, South Korea, etc.....then it's the workers in those countries that have jobs, pay taxes, spend money in the local economies. If you buy a Toyota, Nissan, etc. that is made in the USA. Then it's the American worker who has a job, pays taxes, pumps money back into the economy.

 

I'm not really arguing one side or the other but simply saying that this is not a black and white issue. I consider a lot of different issues when I am deciding what to purchase. We each have to decide where our priorities lie.

[Guest seuadr]

 

I'm not really arguing one side or the other but simply saying that this is not a black and white issue..

you are absolutely right, it's NOT a black and white issue. people want to turn it into, if you don't buy XXX brand, you are (pick one: unamerican/destroying the economy/stupid/ don't support XXX brand workers, who are your brothers.. etc etc etc.)

 

it's simply much more complicated at that. i AM impressed that everyone here is willing to share their opinions, and not start calling names.

 

[Reaney in NH]

But where do the profits go?

 

Well... lets look at your question..

 

If 77% of the bike and its parts are MADE IN USA... then I would say a significant amount would go to the AMERICAN owned companies that made the parts.

 

I would also say a Significant amount would go to the AMERICAN employees that make those parts and assemble the bike.

 

Yes... the final profit on the bike goes to Mother Honda in Japan... but a HUGE portion of the money spent on that HONDA stays right here in the USA.

[Squeeze]

Where does the Profit go ??

 

Well, some of will end up in the shareholders Pocket and some will end up in in Uncle Sam's, Uncle Fritz's or Tomito San's Goverment Pocket(in Form of Taxes). Global Economy is a global Field, the Money makes its Way around the World.

 

 

Well... lets look at your question..

 

If 77% of the bike and its parts are MADE IN USA... then I would say a significant amount would go to the AMERICAN owned companies that made the parts.

 

I would also say a Significant amount would go to the AMERICAN employees that make those parts and assemble the bike.

 

Yes... the final profit on the bike goes to Mother Honda in Japan... but a HUGE portion of the money spent on that HONDA stays right here in the USA.

 

You're right. As long as a Company doesn't earn more Money per Employee than each Employee earns in Wages and Benefits from the Company he works for, the Answer is, the Earnings stay mostly where the Job is actually done and the Wages are paid.