Harbor Freight Torque Wrench...Warning??

[50btripn]

Just changed my oil/filter, put the drain plug back in and, using my "trusty-dusty" Harbor Freight Torque Wrench, torqued the bolt to specification. The result?? I now have a stripped drain plug bolt/oil pan.

 

After I fork out a pretty penny to fix this, I will NOT be using another Harbor Freight tool on my baby.

 

ANy one else ever have an issue with an H.F. Torque Wrench?

[midnightventure]

If there was any oil on the threads it would affect your torque. When my Sears broke a few years ago I didn't replace it with a Harbor Freight. Some of their tools are OK but a torque wrench is just to important to go cheap on.

[Reaney in NH]

I have a Harbor Frieght in pound wrench... when I bought it I clamp a bolt in a vise and practiced with the torque settings. I found after it used for a whilke it broke in and it works great... but when it was new it was sticky.

 

Try clicking it on several diff settings and you will find it will loosen up and work smooth.

[5bikes]

on anything except head bolts and I never strip out or over tighten nuts, bolts. I hate gorillas that think everything has to be overtightened. Use the smallest wrench available and just tighten using your fingers, not hand. Of course the bigger the nut/bolt the tighter it has to be.

Also grease every nut and bolt before reinstalling, so it comes off easier next time. 40+ years doing this. The only loose nuts/bolts I've ever had is forgetting to tighten something to begin with.

[bdyohecomcast.net]

I us theres every day with no problem as does 15 other crews. It has been my xperence to ck all clicker or digital tourque wrenchs with a beam type periodicaly also try a helicor to fix your problem some auto parts store carry the oil plug repair kit cheap Bill

[Stoutman]

I have spent my fair share of dollars at HF. I always look at their tools as more of a kit. I have also seen much more expensive torque wrenches fail. We had boxes of them where I used to work that we took off the factory floor after they failed calibration. Many businesses that use torque wrenches have them calibrated every year or so. I don't know any shade tree mechanics that have had it done (including myself).

 

I suspected my first torque wrench (30 year old JC Penney brand 1/2 inch drive) was not quite right so I bought a new HF one. The JC Penney brand would break at a much lower force. Now you have me wondering which one is right.

[bdyohecomcast.net]

thats why i keep my old beam stlye just to ck. hard for it to go out of calibration. bill

[KeithR]

I torque most everything when working on the bike.....except the oil drain plug...tried that once and didn't like the way it felt. I always torque in stages....eg....50ft/lbs....start at 10ft/lbs and them gradual till I get to 50ft/lbs.

 

Keith

[Condor]

I don't use a torque wrench on most of the smaller fasteners, but when torqueing axels, clutch baskets, etc. I have an old fashioned bar torque wrench. Works every time. Correctly. I just don't trust those 'clickers'.....

[dynodon]

I used to torque everything with a torque rating! No more. I became an adult (did the torque thing when helping my brother-in-law before I was 16!).

 

Those torque ratings are for the FACTORY only for the most part, when bolts and threads are new, and parts are going together with perfect wrenches on an assembly line.

 

The ONLY bolts you should use a torque wrench on older cars/bikes are Big bolts that hold important parts like lug nuts, axle nuts, rod bolts and nuts, head bolts etc.

 

Most anything else and ANYTHING that is small and goes into aluminum or sheet steel, should be tightened by hand and when you feel it getting tight, quit!

 

Many bolts today are designed to bottom out, things like valve covers have thin rubber gaskets or use silicone seals, they do NOT need to be tight. If you feel it bottom out, give it a TINY tug and quit.

 

If you are concerned about it coming lose, use blue loctite (sp?) the red is for major stuff like rod bolts.

 

If you MUST torque stuff a lot, then buy a really good wrench and have it tested from time to time, and don't use it to take OFF stuff.

[Guest curtismiller]

People who know how to use tools will not even go in HF.Junk tool junk job.

[Condor]

People who know how to use tools will not even go in HF.Junk tool junk job.

 

Hmmm?? I guess I don't know tools??

But I did pick up a set of metric combo's for about $16 bucks from HF that are every bit as good, at half the price, of just one of my Snap On's...

[V7Goose]

I used to torque everything with a torque rating! No more. I became an adult (did the torque thing when helping my brother-in-law before I was 16!).

 

Those torque ratings are for the FACTORY only for the most part, when bolts and threads are new, and parts are going together with perfect wrenches on an assembly line.

 

The ONLY bolts you should use a torque wrench on older cars/bikes are Big bolts that hold important parts like lug nuts, axle nuts, rod bolts and nuts, head bolts etc.

 

Most anything else and ANYTHING that is small and goes into aluminum or sheet steel, should be tightened by hand and when you feel it getting tight, quit!

 

Many bolts today are designed to bottom out, things like valve covers have thin rubber gaskets or use silicone seals, they do NOT need to be tight. If you feel it bottom out, give it a TINY tug and quit.

 

If you are concerned about it coming lose, use blue loctite (sp?) the red is for major stuff like rod bolts.

 

If you MUST torque stuff a lot, then buy a really good wrench and have it tested from time to time, and don't use it to take OFF stuff.

Well, you are certainly free to hold onto whatever misguided opinions you desire, but in my book, 99% of your advice in this post is just dead wrong.

 

I don't necessarily use a torque wrench on every bolt or plug, but I would NEVER advise someone not to do it. The fact is, proper torque settings, using published factory values and an accurate torque wrench are an absolute best practice in ALL situations. Imagining that you can somehow do better with dreams and a "calibrated wrist" is just plain foolish (that is as nice as I can put it). In addition, published torque specs are ALWAYS for clean dry threads unless the document specifically states otherwise. Finally, bolts stretch when they are tightened, and the proper torque value is designed to ensure the particular bolt (whatever the specified grade might be) is properly tightened to stretch just the right amount in the designed threads (be they in aluminum, soft steel, or whatever) without weakening the bolt or damaging the threads. ANY bolt that has been over-tightened, either from a mis-calibrated wrist or any other mistake, should be replaced, as it has been damaged.

 

Not all bolts have a published torque spec, but those that do have it for a REASON.

 

Everyone is free to do whatever they want on their own machines, but I just hope that anyone who has not already closed their mind to a particular subject will do a little research to make an informed decision before just blindly accepting any of the stuff they read here, including my stuff!

Goose

[craigatcsi]

People who know how to use tools will not even go in HF.Junk tool junk job.

I used to buy nothing but Craftsman, Snap-on, etc...

Then I discovered Harbor Freight. I really like their hand tools, wrenches, sockets, etc...

But, that being said, I wouldn't try the torque wrenches, I will still pay for the over priced ones and have them calibrated.

I don't torque everything, only the really important things, like head gaskets, oil pans, and such. I just don't want anything leaking.

craigr

[flb_78]

Damn, just how hard did you have to pull to strip out the oil pan?

 

I tighten mine by feel with a 8" 3/8 drive ratchet.

[V7Goose]

Damn, just how hard did you have to pull to strip out the oil pan?

 

I tighten mine by feel with a 8" 3/8 drive ratchet.

Although stripped drain bolt holes on many different engines are not all that rare, the RSV pan seems pretty stout. I helped a guy work on his just last week where the drain plug was soooo tight he couldn't even loosen it with a normal 3/8" drive ratchet. I did manage to get it loose, but from the amount of force I needed, it felt more like an axle nut than a drain plug! And his threads were fine.

 

For a drain plug on this engine to strip out, even with a grossly defective torque wrench (and that is doubtful), I suspect the plug had been cross threaded at one point or another. Sory to hear about that problem, but I doubt it was the tool that did it.

Goose

[Guest seuadr]

you know, it's a pretty easy fix for an oil drain plug, unless i am mistaking which bolt you stripped out. you can get an oversized plug and re-thread for that size pretty easily, or you can get a threaded insert kit and put one of those in there, they are made for sparkplug holes, but they work fantastic in oil drain plugs.

 

can get a kit from napa/carquest etc for aroun 30 dollars, has the tool to cut threads, tool to mushroom the new threaded insert, and from here on out, you can just buy packages of the thread. in my experence, most metric motorcycles are M14 X 1.25.

 

just my

[50btripn]

Thanks all for all the replies. On a side-note, while I am not a certified mechanic, I am also not completely lost around a motorcycle engine. I do stick by specifications stated in the owner's and/or service manual. I am also very meticulous and cautious, as I, like all of you, take great pride in my RSV. When it calls for 31 ft-lbs, I set my torque wrench at 31 ft-lbs and trust that it is working properly. I have used several different H.F tools over the years. Some are worth their weight in gold, while others have been a waste of money. As far as the amount of force I used to tighten the bolt, I finger tighten first, then set my torque wrench at the specification outlined in the service manual. In lieu of forking out several hundred $$$ to a stealership/mechanic, I am going to place the bike on a stand and try to fix it with a heli-coil. I hope to have it fixed by the end of the week.

 

Hope ya'll had a happy 4th.

[flb_78]

AutoZone carries oversized drain plugs that are self tapping. You may have to drill the old threads out of the pan first though. I've repaired a couple of aluminum oil pans like this on big trucks.

 

Can you post a picture of the drain plug?

 

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/accessories/accessoriesShelf.jsp?categoryDisplayName=Oil+and+Fluid+Change&fromType=accessories&fromString=search&parentId=cat30089&filterByKeyWord=oversize+drain+plugs&currentPage=1&navValue=100773&categoryNValue=101311&fromWhere=&subPartId=prod63152&itemId=prod63152&displayName=Oil+Drain+Plug

[Guest seuadr]

http://base0.googlehosted.com/base_media?q=http://www.acetogo.com/photo/product/85880.jpg&size=2&dhm=a349830c&hl=en

as somone who has tried the actual brand "helicoil" inserts(the wire ones) to fix my oil pan, i strongly suggest that you use a solid threaded insert instead of the wire insert. i had lots of leaking issues with them. the one i used was a helicoil Sav-A-Thread m14X1.25( or time sert m14X1.25 )

 

http://www.locknstitch.com/IMG_1276A.jpg

something like this is a good deal more solid ( in my opinion ) and between the tool that mushrooms it into place, and red loctite, it won't come back out easily.

 

i got mine from a local napa, which was a bit pricy, at 40 dollars, then found the same thing at advanced auto for 29. it comes with a whole kit, including insert, die for retapping the hole for the insert, red loc-tite, and a tool for mushrooming the insert once it is fully inserted. Then any m14X1.25 plug will fit it, i found one for a car with a magnet in the end for picking up all the metal shavings in the bottom of the pan for 2 dollars.

 

again, just my , feels tougher than a helicoil.

 

- Jared

 

(p.s. if this is what you were talking about, ignore all this i've seen many people refer to these:

 

 

and i've never had good luck with them )

Edited July 5, 2009 by seuadr
broken picture

[juggler]

Last year when working on my bike with Black Owl I was able to compare my HF click type torque wrench with his fancy digital one. I saw no difference in performance and my HF did the job just the same as the digital one. We did one bolt with the digital one then I used my HF one and it click out right away meaning the bolt was torque equally with both tools.

 

ALL torque wrenches can go out of calibration. The amount of use they get and the way they are stored affects life span and accuracy. Even the old bar types can get out of calibration with use or damage by banging or bending. The click types can not be stored with the adjust screw set to ANY weight. You have to unscrew the adjuster all the way when storing the wrench.

 

 

[Squeeze]

I also would recommend a Time-Sert over a Heli-Coil on the Oil Plug Thread. A Time-Sert is better when i comes to seal Fluids or Gases, whereas a Heli-Coil it better when it comes to Strenght of the renewed Thread.

 

P.S. both Systems origin from the same Company

 

P.P.S. the orignal Thread Size is M14x1.5

[V7Goose]

I have spent my fair share of dollars at HF. I always look at their tools as more of a kit. I have also seen much more expensive torque wrenches fail. We had boxes of them where I used to work that we took off the factory floor after they failed calibration. Many businesses that use torque wrenches have them calibrated every year or so. I don't know any shade tree mechanics that have had it done (including myself).

 

I suspected my first torque wrench (30 year old JC Penney brand 1/2 inch drive) was not quite right so I bought a new HF one. The JC Penney brand would break at a much lower force. Now you have me wondering which one is right.

Beam-type torque wrenches are very imprecise, but much better than nothing. Clicker wrenches should be periodically calibrated, but virtually none of us go to the expense and effort to have that done. But you CAN check them yourself.

 

Checking the accuracy of a torque wrench is not too difficult IF you have at least two wrenches with overlapping ranges. Here's how:

 

 

• You need a high grade bolt and nut - I prefer grade 8 (six radial lines on the head) where a 7/16-14 bolt would allow you to test up to around 70 ft lbs. Make sure the threads on the bolt go all the way to the head, and put at least one large washer on the bolt.
  
• Now clamp the nut in a vise with the top side flush with surface of the vice, then screw the bolt all the way in.
  
• Set your first torque wrench to a low setting in the range that is covered by your second wrench. For example, if both wrenches go from 10-100 ft*lbs, I would start at 15 ft*lbs.
  
• Carefully tighten the bolt in the vise until the wrench clicks.
  
• Now switch to the second wrench, set to the same torque, and see if it clicks BEFORE the bolt turns at all. If so, that is good, but you are only 1/2 done!
  

What you have just shown is that the first wrench did not tighten the bolt any LESS than the same setting on the second wrench, but it MAY have tightened it more. So to complete the check, you need to loosen the bolt, then repeat the above steps starting with wrench #2. If this test also shows the second wrench clicks before the bolt turns any more, then you can be confident that both wrenches are setting the same torque, so they are almost certainly both correct.

 

Now increase the setting on both wrenches up to something in the middle of the range and re-do the whole test. The only thing you need to be careful about is to make sure the max torque setting you test is within what the bolt grade and size can handle.

 

If the two wrenches you are testing do not both click at the same setting, no matter which one you start with, then at least one of them is bad. To find out which one, you will have to find a third wrench to test. When you have two wrenches that both click the same when you do the entire test above, then you can use either one of those as a baseline to compare other wrenches.

 

Just an FYI to anyone who brashly wants to claim all Harbor Freight torque wrenches are junk - I have a total of 5 torque wrenches here - two from HF (a 1/4" drive clicker and a 3/8" drive clicker), an old beam type wrench in in*lbs, and two very high quality 1/2" drive clickers that were calibrated by a USAF test lab. ALL of those wrenches test the same in every point where the ranges overlap, so the HF wrenches are dead accurate within a reasonable tolerance. The only complaint I have at all against one of the HF wrenches (the 1/4" drive) is that the gradations on the handle are a bit more difficult to use when setting the torque value - I had to compare it to the other wrenches to be sure I was reading it correctly.

 

So if anyone in the North Texas area wants to check their torque wrenches, we can compare them to mine.

Goose

Edited July 20, 2009 by V7Goose

[SilvrT]

Lots of interesting stuff in this thread. Gotta put my 2 cents in...

 

Not sure how many who've replied have worked in the vehicle servicing or repair industry or how many have just done your own servicing but I've been/done both since I was 15 yrs old. I've changed oil on so many different vehicles so many times over the years ... well, I'm sure you get the idea... anywayzzzz.... I've never torqued an oil drain plug...ever. Finger tight plus about 1/8 - 1/4 turn (depending on what kind of washer) with whatever wrench/socket-ratchet I'm using. Never had one strip, never had one leak, never had any problems ... ever.

 

Why torque it I ask? (I'm sure I'll get someone's teknikal eggsplanashun)

 

Anyway, that's just me... not suggesting anyone should do what I do LOL

[V7Goose]

Lots of interesting stuff in this thread. Gotta put my 2 cents in...

 

Not sure how many who've replied have worked in the vehicle servicing or repair industry or how many have just done your own servicing but I've been/done both since I was 15 yrs old. I've changed oil on so many different vehicles so many times over the years ... well, I'm sure you get the idea... anywayzzzz.... I've never torqued an oil drain plug...ever. Finger tight plus about 1/8 - 1/4 turn (depending on what kind of washer) with whatever wrench/socket-ratchet I'm using. Never had one strip, never had one leak, never had any problems ... ever.

 

Why torque it I ask? (I'm sure I'll get someone's teknikal eggsplanashun)

 

Anyway, that's just me... not suggesting anyone should do what I do LOL

Why torque it? That's pretty obvious to me - because YOUR calibrated wrist may not be the same as Joe's, and if Joe uses a torque wrench set the the value in the manual, he can't screw it up.

 

Is that "teknikal" enough for you?

Goose