simple oil question

[jasonm.]

I have motorcycle magazines going back 30 years. And one did multiple tests of oils using an independent lab. Both synth and dino. The test was ~15 years ago. Tests were done on the same model of jap-bike.The tests showed ALL 20w50 dino oil was sheared to a 20w30 @1500 miles. As where the synth. oils were sheared down no worse than a 20w40 @1500 miles. So you guys feeling good about going to 2000+ on your dead dinosaur oil changes should reconsider doing it a bit sooner on the Venture. And a 10w40 should only be used in a Venture if you drive less than 10 miles at a clip or the temp does not get above 40F. I have always used synthehics. Most make shifting better and help engine life. PLUS I am not using dead dinos they got from a tanker.

[Yammer Dan]

Plenty of dead Dinos still around. I don't think they are going to run out before I run out of time!!!

[footsie]

Interresting topic, but I want to throw in a question, everyone keeps talking about clutch problems, I use synthetic, change every 5000 to 6000 miles, I ride hard, really hard. and have never had any clutch problems. I have had several honda's with very high mileage, including my 1971 cb 750 with 129,000 miles and it still has the factory clutch.

I did put one clutch in a 83 virago that was burned up by friends we let learn to ride on that bike, new riders tend to ride the clutch.

Is the clutch a problem in the venture, My 2000 had 58,000 miles on it with no problems.

what's the deal.

 

Oh on the oil question, I was fleet maintenance manager for years, and the 3000 miles oil change is bull stuff, we ran oil analysis on all vehicles, the patrol cars and heavy eq too.

We used delo 400 15-40in everything, The results were always the same, samples pull at 3000 miles even in the traffic cars that idled constantly the chased after speeders. always came back with oil life to spare.

We then went to 5000 mile intervals, analysis still showed oil to have safe usable hours.

And when we did start using synthetics, they proved better, not with guess work but with documented and lab tested results.

 

I have a caravan that has 250,000 miles used 10w30 castrol, change every 5000, runs great, Am I going to change it to syn, Nope gonna run on with what it has had since new.

Do what you feel comfortable with, your the one gonna be a long way from home on your bike.

 

 

Gregg

[Yammer Dan]

The clutches do seem weak in the 1st Gens. Clutches don't wear out but usually springs get weak. New springs and good to go most times. Just all that Power. The 2nd Gens don't seem to have that problem!!

[Squeeze]

The clutches do seem weak in the 1st Gens. Clutches don't wear out but usually springs get weak. New springs and good to go most times. Just all that Power. The 2nd Gens don't seem to have that problem!!

 

 

Now, that's Kind of a rude Comment, but nevertheless, it's the Truth ... :whistling:

 

It's the Power and the Torque which makes the Problem more or less prone. On a 1Gen with use of heavy Power, mostl likely, you will have the Clutch slipping soon when using synthetic Oil, M/C specific or not. You may not feel this, because you don't ride it hard enough to feel it slipping right away.

 

With the 2Gen's, having a much longer Gear Ratio in the upper Gears, the Problem is less prone because most Riders very seldom come up in the Revs near red Zone in 4th or 5 th Gear, just because it's dangerous for the License ... But that's where the real Power is.

 

On a Vmax, which uses absolutely the same Parts, you will have Problems with syn. Oil at an Average of 97 Percent. It all depends on the use of the right Wrist and what you make out of it.

 

That all said, i never would have believed the Clutch on my '99 Vmax would slip. But then, i mounted a Lock-up Clutch and i was in Awe about the Difference this made, especially in 4th and 5th Gear under full Throttle. My Clutch slipped for Years of riding, without my Knowledge and without me feeling anything of it. Since then, I strongly believe the Clutch of my '93 VR is slipping also and i will mount a Lock-Up Clutch there also sooner or later.

[Yammer Dan]

Rude, Crude with a attitude!! Couldn't be talking about me!!

 

About what is cost of Lock-up clutch Squeeze?? Not that I would be interested in something like that.

[Squeeze]

Rude, Crude with a attitude!! Couldn't be talking about me!!

 

About what is cost of Lock-up clutch Squeeze?? Not that I would be interested in something like that.

 

Dan, you can buy a genuine OTEC Lock up Clutch from Bill Warner at Wild Bros for about 1000 US$, i think.

 

I use a VERY SIMILAR () Product from here locally for about 300 Euros which modifies your used inner Clutch Hub and your Pressure Plate. That'll be around 420.00 US$ plus something Extra for P+P at the current Exchange Rate.

 

Sounds not too cheap, but you can save Part of the Money in Clutch Plates. You most likely never will buy them again. This Clutch works with Weights inside, which are moved through the Circumference Speed and lock the Clutch Package together at about 2000 RpM. This Lock Mechanism is unlocked by the Clutch Lever/Push Rod Movement. So when you pull the Clutch Lever, the Weights are forced into unlocking Position and you can operate the Clutch as you're used to. Another added Benefit is, You need only minimum Force at the Clutch Lever, even the weakest Spring you can find is good enough for this Clutch.

[dksmith196958]

I have turned a wrench for years, synthentic oils are not good news in a old engine, I have had many people try changing over, does not interact well with

old gaskets or valve seals if your willing to spend $2500. to remove teardown,rebuild, To reseal just so u you can run a oil that may be better for your engine, but NOT for the enviermont. GO to the yamaha dealer buy the oil that was desinged for your engine ! ! And rotella oil was made for use in cat engines in a big truck . .not a bike ,:255:if u use ,OE parts ,SPARK PLUGS,OILS,FILTERS,and so on IT WILL RUN LIKE IT SHOULD AND LAST,IF the parts store says well this should work ok??OK BUBBA WHO DOSENT KNOW A WING NUT FROM A LUGNUT! IT WILL NOT WORK AS GOOD AS THE PART THAT WAS DESINGED FOR THAT ENGINE ! FACT.

[jasonm.]

because I pulled a trailer sometimes, I had installed an '83 clutch assy. w/6 heavy springs like the Barnett kit, only cheaper $$, at 20k . But it still slipped at 58k under full throttle in 3rd-5th gears.I changed plates @60k..all good. Doing the dual diaphragm spring on a 1300 makes it WAY stiff. Mine is a good compromise. ALso NEVER fill your clutch resevoir. You need room for fluid expansion.

[rpep1982]

When I bought my 83VR in December I had no idea what oil was being used in it. I changed it using 20w50 Valvoline regular motorcycle oil. I would like to chance to synthetic oil. In the past when I tried to use synthetic oil in cars that had some miles on them they leaked oil quite badly. My 83 has 48000 miles in it. Do you think it would be safe to go to synthetic?

 

Just to clarify, all oil is a product of refined petroleum, conventional or synthetic. Synthetic is merely synthesized-hydrocarbon molecular chains (Hot Rod magazine April 1, 2000)

[CaseyJ955]

Rotella 15-40 sure works nicely in the max, shifts well too so Ill use it in the Venture. I use it in everything except my old lexus which calls for synthetic so it gets Mobile 1, with 200k it still runs like new. No question synthetics have advantages but I think about things in a risk vs benefit way and with early engines I dont believe its worth the risk even though it may work. I would agree with the rationale that modern synthetics can attack old rubber and gaskets. It might work and it might not but I dont feel compelled to roll the dice when the Rotella works so very well. If I knew I could use synthetics with no risk or ill effects I would do it but I remain unconvinced that this is the case. Normally its hard to go wrong by using what is OEM recommended. When it all comes down to how much more engine life, added hp and fuel savings you get with synthetic oils the perks might fall a bit short of what some would like you to believe.

 

I change bike oil about as often as conventional cage oil because there are plenty of open roads here, I can knock out 3000 miles in a short week if im touring I feel comfortable gauging oil breakdown on a bike by the shifting characteristics. I will change usually 2-3 times a season if I ride a lot. I change oil more frequently for vehicles w/o fuel injection Because unburned fuel can get past rings into the crankcase. I say use any conventional oil you like that is bike clutch friendly and enjoy life.

 

Just my .02

[BlueSky]

I reread this entire discussion and there seems to be lots of folk comparing auto oil change intervals to bikes. Big difference because of the bike's clutch being immersed in the engine oil shortening the life of the oil. I think that in general we are wasting money buying "synthetic" oil. But, we like to waste money on our vehicles. I put "synthetic" in parenthesis because we really don't know what's in the "synthetic". Synthetic used to be PAO, polyalphaolefin. Now it's Group III dino oil or something made from dino oil or the latest, made from natural gas.

[bongobobny]

Just to clarify, all oil is a product of refined petroleum, conventional or synthetic. Synthetic is merely synthesized-hydrocarbon molecular chains (Hot Rod magazine April 1, 2000)

Not quite true, here's a link...

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

 

Special emphasis on the opening statement, "Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially made. Synthetic lubricants can be manufactured using chemically modified petroleum components rather than whole crude oil, but can also be synthesized from other raw materials"

 

More info:

 

http://www.synthetic-oil-technology.info/

 

And now to add fuel to the fire, here's some opinions on dino oil vs synthetic...

 

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/23715/conventional-vs-synthetic-oil

 

http://towprofessional.com/article/synthetic-vs-petroleum/

 

And here's a few opinions on whether or not synthetic is good or bad for older engines...

 

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/what-are-the-risks-of-switching-to-synthetic-oil-in-older-cars

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/07/when-should-you-consider-synthetic-oil/index.htm

 

And the list goes on and on and on! Do a little research by web searching the topic of synthetic oils. I tried to avoid linking to specific oil manufacturer's websites as they may or may not be biased...

[BlueSky]

Not quite true, here's a link...

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

 

Special emphasis on the opening statement, "Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially made. Synthetic lubricants can be manufactured using chemically modified petroleum components rather than whole crude oil, but can also be synthesized from other raw materials"

 

More info:

 

http://www.synthetic-oil-technology.info/

 

And now to add fuel to the fire, here's some opinions on dino oil vs synthetic...

 

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/23715/conventional-vs-synthetic-oil

 

http://towprofessional.com/article/synthetic-vs-petroleum/

 

And here's a few opinions on whether or not synthetic is good or bad for older engines...

 

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/what-are-the-risks-of-switching-to-synthetic-oil-in-older-cars

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/07/when-should-you-consider-synthetic-oil/index.htm

 

And the list goes on and on and on! Do a little research by web searching the topic of synthetic oils. I tried to avoid linking to specific oil manufacturer's websites as they may or may not be biased...

 

Most of those articles are confusing because they compare "synthetic" to regular oil without telling you what synthetic they are talking about. Almost all, if not all of the auto "synthetic" oils on the store shelves is Group III dino oil. Even Amsoil is mostly Group III now. I don't know what Motorcycle "synthetic" is. But with a price of $10 or so a bottle, maybe it is PAO. I doubt it.

[rpep1982]

Most of those articles are confusing because they compare "synthetic" to regular oil without telling you what synthetic they are talking about. Almost all, if not all of the auto "synthetic" oils on the store shelves is Group III dino oil. Even Amsoil is mostly Group III now. I don't know what Motorcycle "synthetic" is. But with a price of $10 or so a bottle, maybe it is PAO. I doubt it.

 

Thanks for helping to make me smarter, I think!

[BlueSky]

Thanks for helping to make me smarter, I think!

 

Now, Group III dino oil is called "synthetic". Group IV, PAO polyalphaolifen is called "synthetic". (Most oils that were first called synthetic were PAO, Mobil 1 and Amsoil for example, but not any more) Group V, Ester, is called "synthetic". So, the term synthetic only tells you it isn't Group II, "regular oil".

 

Mobil 1 and Amsoil were PAO at first. Castrol started marketing a Group III dino oil that they called "synthetic". Mobil sued Castrol and a judge in his infinite wisdom decided that since the lubrication properties of both oils were similar that Castrol could continue to market their oil as synthetic. Since Group III was much cheaper to produce that PAO, Mobil 1 switched to Group III and eventually, so did Amsoil. It's all good oil I think. Whether it's worth the extra cost to use "synthetic" is debatable.

[revks]

I was considering using a synthetic in my 83 standard next change.

The wife's 2012 can am spyder rt calls for a synthetic blend or full synthetic and can am oil is outrageously priced with no API information so if you need to add some you have to get their oil.

According to the owners manual "To avoid damaging the clutch, do not use a motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSACGF-4 classification. Clutch slippage will occur."

I found that Car Quest full synthetic oil meets the qualifications for the can am so going to use the same for the 83 venture.

[bongobobny]

Yup! No issue there! the main thing with motorcycle "WET" clutches is you do NOT want to use any motor oil that has friction inhibitors in them as they WILL make your clutch slip!!! That is pretty much the difference in "Motorcycle" oils and in certain "Auto" oils.

 

Myself I have been using Diesel oils in both my 1st gen and my 2nd gen with no issues at all...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i know , another can of worms and several of you will disagree with everything I've said, to each their own!

[Du-Rron]

I was considering using a synthetic in my 83 standard next change.

The wife's 2012 can am spyder rt calls for a synthetic blend or full synthetic and can am oil is outrageously priced with no API information so if you need to add some you have to get their oil.

According to the owners manual "To avoid damaging the clutch, do not use a motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSACGF-4 classification. Clutch slippage will occur."

I found that Car Quest full synthetic oil meets the qualifications for the can am so going to use the same for the 83 venture.

 

Get an oil that is JASO MA rated on the label and your clutch will not slip.

[BlueSky]

It seems rather strange to me that the modern day auto oils have the energy conserving stamps because they are supposed to be so slick, slick enough to cause a motorcycle clutch to slip. However, if you put the same oil in an old styled pushrod engine that has lifters that slide on the camshaft during break-in, the camshaft will be ruined. I think it is due to the fact that new auto oil has very little zinc in it. I understand that motorcycle oils do have zinc because many motorcycle engines are high performance engines and that is a reason for using motorcycle oils.