fuel pump relay 83 standard

[Guest timshosvt]

Is there anyone out there that knows what number is printed on the fuel pump relay on an 83 standard? I'm not sure I have the right one....

 

Thanks in advance,

Tim

[mini-muffin]

If you're asking which one it is, it's the black plastic one. The rest are all metal. The numbers on the top of the harness we got from Freebird are 25 can't read the last number. There's two red and white wires one blue and white one blue and black. If you need one get in touch with us you can PM myself or hubby muffinman.

 

Margaret

[Guest timshosvt]

I have the plastic fuel pump control unit....facing front of bike it's the one on the far left. Next to it is the plastic start cutout relay, then the fan control relay, then I think the side stand switch relay and then the fuel pump relay?

There is a "new service" area in the Yamaha manual...mine is page 8 for the xvztdk section of the manual that lists the fuel pump relay as being 25g-00, but under the section for the venture standard, it lists fuel pump/emergency cut-off relay (page 7-19) and states disconnect the connector and the remove the side stand relay and or the fuel pump/emergency cut-off relay and then shows a pin-out diagram for

4u8-00 relay which I have hooked up to the side stand. I have another one of these relays hooked up to what my manual says is the fuel pump/emergency cut-off. Are there two of these, with the other one being the fuel pump relay?

To add further confusion, there is a diagram in the manual on page 8-29 that conflicts with the other two pictures.

So is it the 25g-00 or the 4u8-00?

 

My fuel pump isn't acting right and the bike acts as though it's fuel starved, wasn't like that before the fire, can't see any obviously pinched lines and don't know why my fuel filter would have plugged up just sitting in the garage for a the last month. Runs for a long while if I don't give any throttle, give it a lot of short bursts of throttle and it eventually dies, then the fuel pump runs for a long while when you turn the key back on.

 

Thanks in advance,

Tim

 

 

 

 

If you're asking which one it is, it's the black plastic one. The rest are all metal. The numbers on the top of the harness we got from Freebird are 25 can't read the last number. There's two red and white wires one blue and white one blue and black. If you need one get in touch with us you can PM myself or hubby muffinman.

 

Margaret

[muffinman]

Tim with your fuel pump running the way you stated I would say that the electrical side of the pump is probably not a problem.I suggest that you do a fuel pressure check the pump may either be weak or have a clogged inlet line. Looking at the pictures of the bike I also suggest that you check the carb diaphrams and the coils not to mention the tci and boost sensor as the heat would have been on them while you were still moving.You can call me on my cell tonight after 7pm est I can talk while I am working I work till midnight so dont think its to late to call me.9196735095

Jeff

[Guest timshosvt]

Update: Removed subframe and pulled tank to check the lines and filters...all clear. No change in fuel pump behaviour.

I've been wanting to mess with the heat shield on the rear pipes anyway and it's much easier with the subframe off. Fixed that and an exhaust leak.

Since I'm not so smart with my volt/ohm meter I thought I'd play around with checking connections and such. I found the fuel control unit on the 6 inches of harness that was left from the fire and tested the unit per the manual. It was bad per the manual...but I don't know if the "pocket tester" gives different numbers or not. The new/used one from Ebay gave me the same numbers as the one that smells of bacon.

I decided to test the wires leading to the fuel control device and decided to start the bike....The fuel pump behaved the way it did before.

Apparently, the fuel pump control device makes it possible for the fuel pump to run beyond the 5 second time out when there are ignition pulses present. My bike was running out of fuel because of this.

There's a gray wire that goes to the coil and tci and then to the fuel pump control unit. I'm in denial that this control unit is bad so I'd like to test the gray wire. How can I do that?

Jeff, I'll give you a call later but I have to get up at 4:30AM tomorrow to get to work and am working 40 hours in the next 3 days, so I don't think I'm going to work on my bike anymore this evening.

Regards and thanks in advance,

Tim

[muffinman]

As we talked about last night here are the pics from my 83 standard The first 2 pics are of the fuel pump relay the second 2 are the Starting circuit shutoff relay the 3rd 2 are of the side stand relay and the 4th are of the fuel pump relay.

[muffinman]

Ok this pic did not want to load it is the wiring for the side stand relay

[Guest timshosvt]

Jeff, thanks again for doing this for me. Believe it or not, I've been losing sleep over this. (must be more than a hobby)

I had all those relays installed correctly based on what I found in my manual that was copyright 1984 and your pictures.

Confusion arose in my mind when I found a supplement that listed troubleshooting the fuel system and found a 25g relay for the fuel pump. Then I went to the Yamaha parts fiche and found even more relays for the 83 standard. I suppose the relays have been updated/upgraded throughout the years, which is why there are different numbers.

The fuel pump control device is what is bad on my bike at the moment. The original one that smells of bacon and also the one that I got from ebay. I get 0 ohms resistance when checking the coils. The bike runs well without it. I wonder if it is really needed. If anyone one knows the answer to this, feel free to chime in.

 

Thanks again,

 

Tim

[mini-muffin]

Yes you do need it. Let us know which one it is in the picture and we should be able to send you one.

 

 

Margaret

[Guest timshosvt]

Here is the fuel control unit that I'm talking about. The bike runs well without it. All the other relays and the bank angle/tipover sensor seems to function. Does this thing tell the fuel pump to turn off after 5 seconds if it doesn't have spark? I think I answered my own question. My daughter has the good camera at university...sorry for quality.

[Squeeze]

... Does this thing tell the fuel pump to turn off after 5 seconds if it doesn't have spark? ....

 

Yes, this is the basic Description of the Relay Function.

 

Can you measure a Voltage (AC!! Setting on the DMM) ?? That would be one Post of the DMM to Battery Plus, the other End to the grey Wire ?

 

AC Setting because the DC-Signal is intermitting and could be seen as a AC with rectangled Shape of the Signal. The AC setting will give you a better Sensivity.

[Guest timshosvt]

I am reading 27 volts with the bike not running and key on. 40 volts with bike running and when I plug the fuel control unit in...it makes the fuel pump relay click....apparently off.

 

Yes, this is the basic Description of the Relay Function.

 

Can you measure a Voltage (AC!! Setting on the DMM) ?? That would be one Post of the DMM to Battery Plus, the other End to the grey Wire ?

 

AC Setting because the DC-Signal is intermitting and could be seen as a AC with rectangled Shape of the Signal. The AC setting will give you a better Sensivity.

[Squeeze]

Hi Tim,

 

those Voltages seem to be right. Biggest good News is that the Voltage changes and this is how the they're supposed to.

 

Did you try to measure the other Wires, if there are the Voltages/Restistance is like they should be ?

 

 

R/W Wire to Ground - System(Battery)-Voltage (some 12Volts DC)

B black Wire to the Battery Positive Post - System Voltage

L/B Wire Blue/Black is the Output of the Relay - should bring System Voltage when Relay is connected and Enigine is running or 5 Seconds after setting the Ignition Switch in ON-Position.

 

 

What bugs me, is, according to the Wireing Diagram i have, the Fuel Pump can not run if the Relay is not in Place. That's a common Function, on all Bikes with electric Fuel-Pump for Safety Reason.

 

Did i understand that right, that your Pump is working fine until you connect the Relay ?

[Guest timshosvt]

Lutz,

I had measured all wires before and they are appropriate. The gray one had me puzzled though.

Did i understand that right, that your Pump is working fine until you connect the Relay ?

Yes. That is correct. When the bike is running and I plug the fuel control unit in, it clicks the fuel pump relay off. I'll check all my other connections, perhaps something is backwards?

Tim

Hi Tim,

 

those Voltages seem to be right. Biggest good News is that the Voltage changes and this is how the they're supposed to.

 

Did you try to measure the other Wires, if there are the Voltages/Restistance is like they should be ?

 

 

R/W Wire to Ground - System(Battery)-Voltage (some 12Volts DC)

B black Wire to the Battery Positive Post - System Voltage

L/B Wire Blue/Black is the Output of the Relay - should bring System Voltage when Relay is connected and Enigine is running or 5 Seconds after setting the Ignition Switch in ON-Position.

 

 

What bugs me, is, according to the Wireing Diagram i have, the Fuel Pump can not run if the Relay is not in Place. That's a common Function, on all Bikes with electric Fuel-Pump for Safety Reason.

[Squeeze]

Hey Tim,

 

the Fuel Pump's two Wires are Ground and Plus. If the Pump is a working while the Relay is not in Place, the Voltage has to come from somewhere else.

 

I think the 'new' Wireing Harness you mounted is rewired to get the Pump running without the Relay in Place. This could be done nearly everywhere in the Harness between both Ends. But anyway, wherever it has been done, there is access into the Harness Harness needed. So if you inspect the Harness you will find the Point the Bridge has been made.

 

I think you checked the L/B Wire from the Relay Connector to the Pump's end if there is zero Resistance ?

 

Also, you can the Relay outside the existing Harness, if you put Ground and +12 Volts from a Battery to the Relay, you should be able to measure 12 Volts on the Output of the Relay for 5 Seconds when the Plus Contact is attached.

 

So this outside Checking of the Relay needs a Wire from +12 Volts to the Contact where the R/W Wire goes, a Wire from negative Battery Post to the Contact where the black Wires plugs and the DMM one Side to the L/B Contact of the Relay, the other End of the DMM on the negative BatteryPost. Then hold the R/W Wire to the positive Battery Post and read the DMM, setted on DC-20 Volts Range. You should read 12 Volts for some 5 Seconds.

 

As i was thinking about the Possibilities, why the Pump can stop when you attach the Relay, i came to a very minor Conclusion, that maybe, you connected the Pump in wrong Position of the Connector. The Pump will possibly work, even when there is Plus on the Ground lead and nothing on the other End. The Pump could find something like Ground Potential inside and start to run. Not good but, run. So, once you bring up Plus on the End where really Ground should be, there is Plus on one End and ghost Ground on the other, the Pump works. If you plug the Relay, there is Plus on both Ends and the Pump stops. Just a wild Thought and way out the Box, but nevertheless a very small Possibility.

[Guest timshosvt]

The pump shuts down, as verified with dmm reading 0 volts at relay and at pump, when the fuel control unit is plugged in. The fuel control unit is bad per the manual. The picture of the fuel pump relay contacts is upside down in the manual. Discovered this before I hooked the relay up to battery to check function and double checked wires on the harness. The manual is wrong. Also, look at what I found in the schematics. (see picture) There is no fuel control unit listed.

Then I discovered that there are different relay numbers depending upon where you look. I wonder if the relay that works with the fuel control unit is a push or pull relay? Is there such a thing?

All I wanted to know was if anyone had measured voltage of the gray wire before so I would know what to look for. I didn't want to get a new fuel control unit and then burn it up.

I have no idea why the pump runs the way it's wired with the fuel control unit...but it looks like it will run just fine per the schematics in this picture. It shuts off per the pressure switch switch in the pump and turns on via that switch, as well. GeorgeS suggests that this switch/pump is bad which was my original concern until I discovered that the blasted pump behaved normally with the control unit unhooked...

Any ideas?

 

Tim

 

 

Hey Tim,

 

the Fuel Pump's two Wires are Ground and Plus. If the Pump is a working while the Relay is not in Place, the Voltage has to come from somewhere else.

 

I think the 'new' Wireing Harness you mounted is rewired to get the Pump running without the Relay in Place. This could be done nearly everywhere in the Harness between both Ends. But anyway, wherever it has been done, there is access into the Harness Harness needed. So if you inspect the Harness you will find the Point the Bridge has been made.

 

I think you checked the L/B Wire from the Relay Connector to the Pump's end if there is zero Resistance ?

 

Also, you can the Relay outside the existing Harness, if you put Ground and +12 Volts from a Battery to the Relay, you should be able to measure 12 Volts on the Output of the Relay for 5 Seconds when the Plus Contact is attached.

 

So this outside Checking of the Relay needs a Wire from +12 Volts to the Contact where the R/W Wire goes, a Wire from negative Battery Post to the Contact where the black Wires plugs and the DMM one Side to the L/B Contact of the Relay, the other End of the DMM on the negative BatteryPost. Then hold the R/W Wire to the positive Battery Post and read the DMM, setted on DC-20 Volts Range. You should read 12 Volts for some 5 Seconds.

 

As i was thinking about the Possibilities, why the Pump can stop when you attach the Relay, i came to a very minor Conclusion, that maybe, you connected the Pump in wrong Position of the Connector. The Pump will possibly work, even when there is Plus on the Ground lead and nothing on the other End. The Pump could find something like Ground Potential inside and start to run. Not good but, run. So, once you bring up Plus on the End where really Ground should be, there is Plus on one End and ghost Ground on the other, the Pump works. If you plug the Relay, there is Plus on both Ends and the Pump stops. Just a wild Thought and way out the Box, but nevertheless a very small Possibility.

[Squeeze]

Hi Tim,

 

i don't know what you mean with Pusher or Puller Relay. Pusher could be a Closer Contact that closes the Connection when the Relay is on Power. A Puller might be a Opener Contact which means the Contact is closed without Power, when Power is supplied, the Contact opens the Circuit.

 

All i want to say is, this damned Pump should not run without the Relay in Place. Puller, Pusher, Opener, Closer, whatever, the Current should go through the Relay. If the Relay i not in Place, there should be no Voltage on the Pump. If your Bike is basically without this Relay, why the Heck is there a Connecting Place for Relay that does not exist in the Wireing Diagram ?

 

If there is Voltage on the Pump without the Relay in Place, there is something false in the Harness or anywhere else near. Period.

 

As for the Manuals and the Inconsisticies. I don't give a damn on those stupid, freaking Guys who are trying to do their Best, which is, in some Cases, not so much ... A Friend of mine teared his Vmax completely apart, and find his TCI not working anymore after the rebuild. According to his Chilton or Clymer, the TCI was bad. But after i looked after it, the Motor fired up at once: It cost me not more than 10 Minutes, i just pluged the right Handlebar Switch firmly togehter and there it goes ....

 

Back to your Hassle. You have to decide what to do. Forget about the Safety the Relay should provide and leave the Function as it is. Or check your Harness and the Relay for bare Funktion out of the Bike, like i described before.

 

 

P.S.

my Tongue may sound a bit different, please disregard this. It is not meant against you in any Way, but nevertheless it is the plain Truth. I can imagine why the Pump is running without the Relay, but i can not imagine why the Pump stops when you connect it. If i where closer, you sure could put one or two Michelob's in your Fridge, you definatly would need them ....

[Guest timshosvt]

Hi Tim,

.........

 

P.S.

my Tongue may sound a bit different, please disregard this. It is not meant against you in any Way, but nevertheless it is the plain Truth. I can imagine why the Pump is running without the Relay, but i can not imagine why the Pump stops when you connect it. If i where closer, you sure could put one or two Michelob's in your Fridge, you definatly would need them ....

 

None taken. I studied German and lived in Germany briefly 3 decades ago. Once in awhile I run into someone from the Amish community that speaks German and not a mixture of dutch/German/English, but not very often and even then we can only exchange but a few words. Your 'tongue' is not that foreign and your posts are well written.

This on line community is curiously impersonal, despite it's public nature, it's as though you are writing a personal letter to a number of friends. For a large portion of people writing messages here, this is not their natural method of communication; only a proportion are able to write fluently and posses the vocabulary necessary to express shades of emotion and attitude. It seems that there are members dispersed throughout the world with cultural and language differences, add to that the impersonal nature of this form of communication, and the potential for embarrassment, misunderstanding, irritation or anger is huge. I find it very interesting that one might arrive at some preconceived notion about one's intelligence level by the way they write messages here, but I've never noted anyone here to judge anyone by the way they write. Content is what matters here most. It's a level playing field. All contributions are welcome.

It's interesting as I write this as I look to my right and see the catalog of smiley items available for use here. I may be behind times, but I really didn't consider the use of a smile to show the emotional colorant of my writing intentions.

My bike seems to be operating normally. Except I have no idea how much voltage I should see on the gray wire. The fuel pump relay is energized and lets the current flow to the pump per the schematic I posted a few posts ago. The fuel control relay, as I said before, is bad and I was just curious as to how badly I needed this thing in place. The pump is currently operating off the pressure switch, as it's designed to do.

I'm taking a break from it for a few days. Right now I am trying to fix our clothes dryer. We bought all new appliances 4 years ago and one by one they are breaking. I cannot recommend Maytag appliances to anyone.

Perhaps I'll have a beer anyway!

 

Tschüs!

 

 

Tim