Condor Posted June 24, 2009 #1 Posted June 24, 2009 Ok, so I've been pretty lackadaisical about the '91VR since I bought her. After repairing the rear trunk... big project... and replacing a couple of cracked dash boards, it came down to trying to find the leak above the collector without a whole lot of success. I eventually pulled the middle gear cover to see if it might be that. Changed the gasket, and put a new crush washer on the bottom cap screw. Still leaked. That's where I started to loose interest, and also winter was settling in. So it sat. I don't want to pull the collector... Then I picked up the HB camera probe thinking it would help. It did a little bit, but not enough. So pulled the middle gear cover again to see if I could locate the leak. With the help of the camera I checked every possible place it could be leaking oil. It was dry as a bone everywhere I looked. A couple of screws holding the gear indicator were a little loose so I snugged them up a bit. Not because there was evidence of oil coming from the area, but just because. Put the cover back on again making sure. If it still leaks the only place left would be the pan gasket or the pan itself might have a crack in it?? Anyway the search goes on. Now, while I've got stuff somewhat off the bike I decide to check the air cleaner and diaphragms. Other than not wanting to idle real well, the motor was running very solid.. I previously did adjust the idle screws on the two carbs I could get to without removing a bunch of stuff and it did help, so I figured once I get serious about tweeking the carbs the idle would clear up. So pull the air box lid. It's got a K&N. Cool... Weights a ton. Oil soaked. I take a long screw driver and check the slider movement. They're good. So I go ahead and fire up the bike. #4 diaphragm deader than a doornail. 2, 1 , and 3 are perkin' along just fine. Now remember the motors running strong. MOF while I got the lid off the box it's still running great??? I've never had one where the motor didn't run like poop with the lid off. It was like the filter and lid weren't even needed for this thing to perform.... on 3 cylinders to boot... Anyone else had a bike that acted like this?? I bought the bike from a small builder/dealer, who in turn bought it from a private party. I have no history or heresay on this bike. I asked the dealer to get the name of the guy he bought it from so I might get a little history, but he's never gotten back to me. The bike had all sorts of mods done to it externally, but I haven't got a clue as to what's been done internally. I guess it's going to be a discovery as needed thing?? The motor's got me buffalo'd. Could it be a V-Max? Or maybe V cam and heads?? I guess only time will tell. Meanwhile I gotta find this dang leak. I want to ride it to Cody.....
BuddyRich Posted June 24, 2009 #2 Posted June 24, 2009 That's not a drive Jack. That's a very short putt......
Condor Posted June 24, 2009 Author #3 Posted June 24, 2009 That's not a drive Jack. That's a very short putt......
MiCarl Posted June 24, 2009 #4 Posted June 24, 2009 When oil leaks through the wire grommets in the stator cover it runs down the wires and ends up under the middle gear cover - right at the side stand pivot. Then it runs along the frame rail and makes it look like the oil pan is leaking. As far as your slides go - have you synced the carbs? If they're out of sync it's possible one doesn't have any air moving.
Condor Posted June 24, 2009 Author #5 Posted June 24, 2009 When oil leaks through the wire grommets in the stator cover it runs down the wires and ends up under the middle gear cover - right at the side stand pivot. Then it runs along the frame rail and makes it look like the oil pan is leaking. As far as your slides go - have you synced the carbs? If they're out of sync it's possible one doesn't have any air moving. I've checked the wires. Dry. The #4 butterfly is opening, but the slide won't move period. Not even a giggle.... Either the diaphragm is shot, or the slide has come apart, or the 'O' ring for the air orifice is missing??? I'll find it. It's just that the dang thing runs so good from 1200rpm up....
Dano Posted June 24, 2009 #6 Posted June 24, 2009 In your boat with ya, Jack. Haven't looked with the air filter and box top off yet, tho. Gotta get some time to do that. Dan
BuddyRich Posted June 24, 2009 #7 Posted June 24, 2009 Hey Jack, I got this from a reliable source "check behind the collector where the shift mech/cross over comes out".
skydoc_17 Posted June 24, 2009 #8 Posted June 24, 2009 Hey Jack, As far as that oil soaked air filter goes, you may want to try the crankcase vent mod, It worked really well for me. Here's the link: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32356 Are you sure the leak is not the valve cover, they can be a hard one to find sometimes. Good luck on finding it, Earl
Jrichard Posted June 24, 2009 #9 Posted June 24, 2009 I've checked the wires. Dry. The #4 butterfly is opening, but the slide won't move period. Not even a giggle.... Either the diaphragm is shot, or the slide has come apart, or the 'O' ring for the air orifice is missing??? I'll find it. It's just that the dang thing runs so good from 1200rpm up.... Jack----squirt a-bil of earl on the #4slide--and c if you can get it to break loose!!------or pull the #4cover------------winter set in in CA.????????????and ya lost interest!-----w/all the libs and the 'hot air'---should b no-mo winter!!-------at all:sign outstanding::usa:
Condor Posted June 24, 2009 Author #10 Posted June 24, 2009 Hey Jack, I got this from a reliable source "check behind the collector where the shift mech/cross over comes out". I did that Buddy. Everything's dry. No evidence of a leak.... Here's something that's got me scratching my head... It only leaks after I've run the motor for a while. Then it'll drip for a while and then quit. I think it's coming from an area where oil will pool. I thought it might be from the rear valve cover, but the back side of the head is dry and dusty. The other area is the middle gear cover. If this last go around doesn't get it I might try using a form-a-gasket treatment of some sort. It's just that when I do it, it's a PITA getting the cover off in the future....
Condor Posted June 24, 2009 Author #11 Posted June 24, 2009 Jack----squirt a-bil of earl on the #4slide--and c if you can get it to break loose!!------or pull the #4cover------------winter set in in CA.????????????and ya lost interest!-----w/all the libs and the 'hot air'---should b no-mo winter!!-------at all:sign outstanding::usa: It's not stuck JR... It just ain't moving. No vacuum... or no diaphragm. Usually the slide will move even if there's a few holes in the rubber pham... This thing is just sitting there... Of course it's the #4 carb. Couldn't be #1 or #3... That would make things too easy...
MiCarl Posted June 24, 2009 #12 Posted June 24, 2009 You 100% sure about those wires? They are above the oil level so they don't leak when parked. When the engine is running the alternator rotor throws oil up on them. Oh, for what it's worth, mine wasn't leaking along the wires. The grommets had shrunk and it was leaking between the grommet and the engine.
Jrichard Posted June 24, 2009 #13 Posted June 24, 2009 I did that Buddy. Everything's dry. No evidence of a leak.... Here's something that's got me scratching my head... It only leaks after I've run the motor for a while. Then it'll drip for a while and then quit. I think it's coming from an area where oil will pool. I thought it might be from the rear valve cover, but the back side of the head is dry and dusty. The other area is the middle gear cover. If this last go around doesn't get it I might try using a form-a-gasket treatment of some sort. It's just that when I do it, it's a PITA getting the cover off in the future.... "It'll drip fer a while and then QUIT"----Jack may-b ya been on the left coast tooooo long!--time to VENTURE to the 'land of sanity'----- HEAD EAST YOUNG MAN----or ya can put a drip-bucket and measure the amount!----If'en it was me I'd park over a piece of cardboard and over a period of time {the CANDY MAN will heal it} another shameless plug----------
Condor Posted June 24, 2009 Author #14 Posted June 24, 2009 You 100% sure about those wires? . Yep, that area is drier than a popcorn fart....
BoomerCPO Posted June 24, 2009 #15 Posted June 24, 2009 Boomer......who's still bucking for Sainthood.
SilvrT Posted June 24, 2009 #16 Posted June 24, 2009 Yep, that area is drier than a popcorn fart.... Mother: Um, Junior... do I hear someone passing a series of popcorn farts? Junior: No Mother, that's just a little mouse riding through the house on a motorcycle.
rez Posted June 25, 2009 #17 Posted June 25, 2009 I had a pesky leak and turned out to be at the shift indicator plate (in the transmission). It was leaking between the metal insert(s) and plastic plate/housing. Very difficult to find. Maybe a crack or 'separation' between the inserts and plastic...changed it and leak was gone. It would drop oil on collector...and give a burn't oil odour constantly. Would leak after some running time....had to spray clean and run many times to finally isolate/pinpoint the leak. Good luck.
MasterGuns Posted June 25, 2009 #18 Posted June 25, 2009 Jack, I had a very similiar oil leak with this 86. Would only leak after running for a while and would leak somewhere on top of the collector and stink to high heaven. Seached till I was blue in the face and to no avail. I removed the middle gear cover and cleaned the area in the abyss to check things out better. Still couldn't find the leak. I knew it had to be in there somewhere because the top of the motor was dry as a bone. So, since I had another old middle gear cover, using my dremel I cut the cover down so that while it was attached, I could observe what was going on in the abyss while the motor was running. I refer to the area behind the middle gear cover that contains the clutch slave, gear indicator switch, shift linkage, various seals, and the stator wires as the abyss. Finally, after running it for some time, I observed a very slight leak from behind the gear indicator switch that eventually dripped right down on top of the collector. Just like yours, it would only leak ever so slightly while running and for some time afterward the engine was shut off. Whoalah! Tore that puppy out of there and noticed it had a couple cracks in it as well. Replaced the switch and ran it again with the same cutaway middle gear cover and issue resolved. That was several weeks ago and still dry. This was my experience anyway and I hope you can use some of it. Also, since I did not like the design of the switch which is plastic and held in place by three screws drawing on the plastic, I designed a top cover out of some thin aluminum; sort of like a cover and used longer screws. That way I could really sinch it up tight without worrying about cracking the plastic due to overtightening. I should had taken pics but most of the time I am doing things like that, I one don't have time and think that most would think I am an idiot.
Condor Posted June 25, 2009 Author #19 Posted June 25, 2009 What a great idea. I think I have an extra middle gear cover around here somewhere. Just cut the cosmetic flap off. What you discribed is exactely what I'm experiencing. Rocket clue'd me in on the plastic gear selector so I really looked at that area, but it's tough to tell when the oil is so damn clean... Maybe snugging up those two screws on the indicator might have stopped the leak??? I didn't see any evidence of cracking on the plastic. I haven't had a chance to check on it today, but will a little later. Like your's the 'abyss' is clean as a whistle. I've never seen a new abyss, but I bet this one comes close. Thanks for the info.....
MasterGuns Posted June 25, 2009 #20 Posted June 25, 2009 Jack, Three screws; tighten all three. These screws have a tendency to loosen on their own. So I recommend you remove them one at a time, spray some carb cleaner into the screw hole, then use a little locktight before replacing the screw. Thats what was recommended to me by Rocket up there in the Canada and I did it and so far so good. Attach your modified middle gear cover, add oil, grab a pillow and a couple beers and have a good long observation period. Kinda fun I thought. What a great idea. I think I have an extra middle gear cover around here somewhere. Just cut the cosmetic flap off. What you discribed is exactely what I'm experiencing. Rocket clue'd me in on the plastic gear selector so I really looked at that area, but it's tough to tell when the oil is so damn clean... Maybe snugging up those two screws on the indicator might have stopped the leak??? I didn't see any evidence of cracking on the plastic. I haven't had a chance to check on it today, but will a little later. Like your's the 'abyss' is clean as a whistle. I've never seen a new abyss, but I bet this one comes close. Thanks for the info.....
Condor Posted June 25, 2009 Author #21 Posted June 25, 2009 Jack, Three screws; tighten all three. These screws have a tendency to loosen on their own. So I recommend you remove them one at a time, spray some carb cleaner into the screw hole, then use a little locktight before replacing the screw. Thats what was recommended to me by Rocket up there in the Canada and I did it and so far so good. Attach your modified middle gear cover, add oil, grab a pillow and a couple beers and have a good long observation period. Kinda fun I thought. Well, I went out and fired the beast up. Didn't see much evidence of drips under the center stand, so let it sit and idle for a while. Eventually it started to smoke up a storm. Mosquito Abatement time.... Worse than it was before. I even started to get smoke out the exhaust which it never did before. . I wonder if the air filter has anything to do with it. It was oil soaked, and I wonder if it's causing oil to be sucked up into the air box?? The foam seal on the base of the filter had slipped around a bit and when I put it back in I tucked the edges in the make a good seal. But I digress.... I'm going to take a look to see if I have an extra cover to slice and dice.... I'm really starting to get pissed.....
friesman Posted June 25, 2009 #22 Posted June 25, 2009 Well, I went out and fired the beast up. Didn't see much evidence of drips under the center stand, so let it sit and idle for a while. Eventually it started to smoke up a storm. Mosquito Abatement time.... Worse than it was before. I even started to get smoke out the exhaust which it never did before. . I wonder if the air filter has anything to do with it. It was oil soaked, and I wonder if it's causing oil to be sucked up into the air box?? The foam seal on the base of the filter had slipped around a bit and when I put it back in I tucked the edges in the make a good seal. But I digress.... I'm going to take a look to see if I have an extra cover to slice and dice.... I'm really starting to get pissed..... Hey Herb, Would it be ok if I sent Jack your cover and then he could forward it to you after he is done? Brian
MasterGuns Posted June 25, 2009 #23 Posted June 25, 2009 Brian, Absolutely, that is if he can wait for it. Let's ask him. The last time he posted he said he was going to look for his extra middle gear cover. Hey Jack, want Brian to send you the middle gear cover I sent him; the one that has the cosmetic portions removed? Hey Herb, Would it be ok if I sent Jack your cover and then he could forward it to you after he is done? Brian
Condor Posted June 25, 2009 Author #24 Posted June 25, 2009 Brian, Absolutely, that is if he can wait for it. Let's ask him. The last time he posted he said he was going to look for his extra middle gear cover. Hey Jack, want Brian to send you the middle gear cover I sent him; the one that has the cosmetic portions removed? That'll work for me Herb. Haven't started to look just yet, so I'll put it on the back burner. I'll fiddle with a couple of other things until it arrives. Thanks Herb... and you too Brian...
friesman Posted June 25, 2009 #25 Posted June 25, 2009 OK Guys , I will try and get it gone today,... I hate to see Jack without a project to ponder over. Thanks for the use of it Herb, I will send some cash your way for the postage, I really appreciate it. I still got a leak, but its not my gear indicator anymore, it looks like the shifter pass through and the stator grommet. That is a handy tool to have kicking around! Brian
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