The 1stGen fork brace and fork springs

[Condor]

I'd just like to make a few comments about the fork brace and after market fork springs designed for the 1stGen Venture as there’s some misconception about what exactly they will do.

 

Will the brace cure the dreaded high speed ‘Tank Slap’ experienced by some riders? No. The brace is not a cure-all Band-Aid. If your bike is experiencing high speed wobbles or tank slap it’s because the bike has a problem(s). Bad front or rear tire cap, out of round tire, bent rim, out of balance tire, weak fork springs, bent fork(s), bent main frame, worn steering head bearings, worn fork seals, low fork oil, high fork oil, worn axle bearings, etc.

 

What the fork brace will do, along with new springs, is enhance the bike’s handling performance. They will improve the bike’s overall ride and stability. It will make panic stops smoother and more manageable. The effects of pot holes, curve tracking, rough surfaces will be reduced. Side torque due to uneven rough surfaces will be greatly reduced. In some instances a slight rebound wobble from small differences in rebound action due to seal or spring wear, will be reduced or eliminated. However, inevitably they will only continue to wear over time and will need to be addressed.

 

These two mods should be done to every 1stGen on the road today. One is the after market fork brace. The other is improved fork springs. Both parts are relatively inexpensive, and the mods easy to perform, but the improvement in handling is huge. The OEM fork brace is inadequate, and cosmetic at best. All First Generation Ventures are 16 to 25 years old and are going to have weak springs. It’s a given. Improvements in spring technology have basically made the new OEM springs obsolete.

 

If anyone is still riding around with original springs and brace on your bike, you’re short changing yourself, and your ride experience.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Condor

[Yammer Dan]

 

[Rocket]

These two mods should be done to every 1stGen on the road today. One is the after market fork brace. The other is improved fork springs. Both parts are relatively inexpensive, and the mods easy to perform, but the improvement in handling is huge. The OEM fork brace is inadequate, and cosmetic at best. All First Generation Ventures are 16 to 25 years old and are going to have weak springs. It’s a given. Improvements in spring technology have basically made the new OEM springs obsolete.

 

If anyone is still riding around with an original springs and brace on your bike, you’re short changing yourself, and your ride experience.

 

I totally agree.......... I did not give Friesman1, the choice on changing the springs out, when he told me of his forks bottoming out. As I had his scoot here in Wainwright, for repairs, simple enough to add that little job. He already had the new fork brace, but not yet installed. As I grabbed it off of his vehicle dash, the weekend we tore the scoot down.

 

Since he got the scoot back, he has been too busy, out playing on it. :thumbsup2:

So lots of luck in trying to track him down, aside from the meets.

[Jrichard]

I'd just like to make a few comments about the fork brace and after market fork springs designed for the 1stGen Venture as there’s some misconception about what exactly they will do.

 

Will the brace cure the dreaded high speed ‘Tank Slap’ experienced by some riders? No. The brace is not a cure-all Band-Aid. If your bike is experiencing high speed wobbles or tank slap it’s because the bike has a problem(s). Bad front or rear tire cap, out of round tire, bent rim, out of balance tire, weak fork springs, bent fork(s), bent main frame, worn steering head bearings, worn fork seals, low fork oil, high fork oil, worn axle bearings, etc.

 

What the fork brace will do, along with new springs, is enhance the bike’s handling performance. They will improve the bike’s overall ride and stability. It will make panic stops smoother and more manageable. The effects of pot holes, curve tracking, rough surfaces will be reduced. Side torque due to uneven rough surfaces will be greatly reduced. In some instances a slight rebound wobble from small differences in rebound action due to seal or spring wear, will be reduced or eliminated. However, inevitably they will only continue to wear over time and will need to be addressed.

 

These two mods should be done to every 1stGen on the road today. One is the after market fork brace. The other is improved fork springs. Both parts are relatively inexpensive, and the mods easy to perform, but the improvement in handling is huge. The OEM fork brace is inadequate, and cosmetic at best. All First Generation Ventures are 16 to 25 years old and are going to have weak springs. It’s a given. Improvements in spring technology have basically made the new OEM springs obsolete.

 

If anyone is still riding around with an original springs and brace on your bike, you’re short changing yourself, and your ride experience.

:clap2::thumbsup2::usa:---125% improvement---over original--------BRAVO Jack

[rmcclain]

Who are the manufacturers of the springs and brace and where do I find them? Thanks

[Condor]

Who are the manufacturers of the springs and brace and where do I find them? Thanks

 

Progressive Springs

 

Race Tech Springs and suspension

 

Super Brace

 

Bob Myer Brace

 

Group Buy Brace

 

There are many more. This is just a quick sample of what's available.

[GeorgeS]

Ditto, all, well put !!!! The " Condor " knows how to fly, I have flown with him !!

 

I will also add, that the Improvement in handling, is enough to save your life under certain high speed road conditions. ( ie: High speed curves )

 

Also, if anyone buys and Old 1st gen, if you don't know the last time the brake caliper's , and master cylinders, were completly, rebuilt--- Do It !!! This bike is heavy, I have had all 3 calipers litteraly " smoking " while rideing some mountain roads !!

 

If there are 15K on those brake pads, Replace them !!

[Snaggletooth]

And Condor shall lead us through the hills and valleys in the search of the perfect curve to test our machines.

 

Amen.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Jack,

Sometimes, we NEED someone we admire and respect to cut thru the BS and deal it strait off the top of the deck for a change! If you don't have these mods on your First Gen......then you might as well have a Second Gen. cause that's the way your riding your bike!

Again, Very Well Said!

Earl

[Gearhead]

Will the brace cure the dreaded high speed ‘Tank Slap’ experienced by some riders? No. The brace is not a cure-all Band-Aid. If your bike is experiencing high speed wobbles or tank slap it’s because the bike has a problem(s). Bad front or rear tire cap, out of round tire, bent rim, out of balance tire, weak fork springs, bent fork(s), bent main frame, worn steering head bearings, worn fork seals, low fork oil, high fork oil, worn axle bearings, etc.

 

I would add that on my 87 I checked / maintained / replaced all these things (except for the bent frame, but I have no other strange symptoms of a bent frame). I still have just a bit of the mid-speed wobble (only with BOTH hands off the bars) and tiny high-speed weave after a sudden lane-change (it self damps in less than a second). I've read the the weave is helped with solid engine mounts which effectively increases frame stiffness. However, research seems to show that these symptoms are fairly typical for bikes of this size and geometry. Steeper rake (compared to a cruiser, anyway), lots of weight, especially in the trunk area. So even with a fork brace, etc, and all the maintenance in the world, there may still be vestiges of a wobble or weave.

 

Jeremy

[Condor]

I would add that on my 87 I checked / maintained / replaced all these things (except for the bent frame, but I have no other strange symptoms of a bent frame). I still have just a bit of the mid-speed wobble (only with BOTH hands off the bars) and tiny high-speed weave after a sudden lane-change (it self damps in less than a second). I've read the the weave is helped with solid engine mounts which effectively increases frame stiffness. However, research seems to show that these symptoms are fairly typical for bikes of this size and geometry. Steeper rake (compared to a cruiser, anyway), lots of weight, especially in the trunk area. So even with a fork brace, etc, and all the maintenance in the world, there may still be vestiges of a wobble or weave.

 

Jeremy

 

I'd say that right off hand you just haven't located the problem yet Jeremy. There are lots of 1stGens without solid engine mounts that don't have a wobble so I don't think solids are the answer either. As you said they will improve handling characterizes, but there's something else causing the wobble. Just guessing, but maybe worn rubber engine mounts, and new oem mounts might cure the problem, but if you're going to go thru the trouble of replacing the rubbers, you might as well go with the solids....??

[rmcclain]

When I change the springs is there any special fork oil that I shoud use?

[Snaggletooth]

Regular old 10 wt will do. Some try 15 wt but I found it a little stiff. You can use hydraulic oil and some use transmission fluid.

[Smitty161]

I recently replaced my fork brace with a Bob Meyers one. Wow....I can not reccomend Bob's brace enough. Handling is tight. Follow the advice above and get one. NOW!!!!!!!!

 

Also replaced the springs at the same time. Wow, wow and double wow. Enough said. Oem bad, bad, bad.....I decided to try 15wt oil. I seem to be a little stiff and ocassionaly bounce a bit at low speed. I run zero air in the forks and 35psi in the rear. I did use the 3/4 spacer. I believe the simple fix would be to go back to 10wt oil. What do ya think?

[Snaggletooth]

Give it a little time and a some miles before you change the fork oil over to something else. The Progressives felt pretty stiff themselves when new but after a couple of thousand miles they seemed to loosen up a bit. I added a little extra to the preload this spring.

[Squidley]

When replacing the front springs they need 1 to 2000 miles before they are properly broke in and seated where they want to be. Give it some time and if it's still harsh go to 10 wt oil

[Bob Myers]

Progressive Springs

 

Race Tech Springs and suspension

 

Super Brace

 

Bob Myer Brace

 

Group Buy Brace

 

There are many more. This is just a quick sample of what's available.

I put "progressive" springs in the 86 last summer, $100.00+- a couple. Probably one of the best things I ever did for the bike, just over 3k miles on them and I need to change oil. I now need to address the rear spring. It has just as much, actually now more mileage than the front did.

If replacing both springs at same time I'm sure it would be a totally different bike

[Smitty161]

I will give it a little more time. Just got back from a trip that added 500 miles to the springs. They'r not too stiff....I mean not unbearable. Thanks for the info...

[NewfoundlandVenture]

The fork brace is an upgrade I would definitely recommend. I did mine last year, and there is no doubt about the improvement in handling. I haven't considered springs yet, simply because I haven't noticed any issues when driving... maybe it will be a winter upgrade, then I can what I'm missing.

 

I know the discussion is about suspension upgrades here, but I'd also say that if anyone has a 1st gen and hasn't upgrades the stock battery cables, it has to go on the list of must upgrades. Since replacing my cables this year with much heavier cables from lonestarmedic / JB, starting is dramatically improved. When hot, my VR barely wanted to turn over, now there is no hesitation. I can't sing the praises of this upgrade enough!

[RedRocket]

Time for me to chime in here. I have a recently purchased, low mile 88 Royale. In addition to riding and owning a dozen plus other (mostly sporty-type) bikes.

This is my first time owning a heavyweight touring bike. My first impression was terrible. Just pulling over the curb towards my house was an episode of shaking and quivering, along with a big, healthy KLUNK!

I put some fresh fluid, along with the Progressive springs.

The springs made a BIG difference. The Klunk was gone, and the bike's behavior sharpened up a measurable amount. I still looked for more. I added some fresh brake pads, and new Dunlop Elite 3 tire. I was hesitant to make a post complaining that when hitting the ramps at 75 mph and up I was getting a DEATH WOBBLE. I had already repacked/and/or/replaced my steering head bearings, and replaced thew rubber washer. The Death Wobble was still there. At times when I was heeled over in a corner and hit a bump, or even decellerated I would get the shake, at times enough to get fearful.

I got one of Condor's Fork Braces, and installed in last night. Tonight I got to take a spin around the neighborhood where there are many roundabouts, some of them with potholes. I went banging around these roundabouts, hitting it pretty hard, and where I normally would've felt that big, heavy front wheel wobbling at least 5 or 6 times, I only got the shake ONCE!!!!! That makes me happy. I can't wait to take it to work and see how great it is in the real world for me.

 

I think that if I wouldn't have made these improvements I would've really REALLY hated this bike.

Edited June 24, 2009 by RedRocket