clutch friction zone

[Seaking]

2006 Midnight Venture (no warranty)

 

Hi guys, I wonder if someone could shed some light on this for me.. I hadn't realized till recently that my Venture had a hydraulic clutch vs cable like on my VStar.. On the VStar I can adjust where the friction zone is within the clutch lever application so that it's comfortable on my hand, the zone itself is narrow, meaning how much travel of the lever keeps you in the friction zone of the clutch.. For people doing a lot of slow speed manouvering on such a large bike, you'll understand where I'm going with this..

 

On the Venture I find my friction zone is extremely narrow and all the way to the release point of the clutch lever.. it take a very deft hand to stay within the zone smoothly.. On the VStar, the zone was more so into the middle than towards the full release point..

 

I'm wondering if my clutch is actually full engaged when I release the lever, because as soon as I pull it in I'm immediately in the friction zone.. If this can be adjusted, how so..

 

If it can't be adjusted, is mine more or less normal?

 

I'm teaching motorcycle safety and though students do the course on 125 Maurauders, we're somewhat expected to be able to do the excercise courses on our own bikes.. When you see a RoadKing or a GoldWing able to do it, it makes me wonder how come my Venture can't do it (oh I know there are a lot of reasons apart from the rider's abilities lol) but the one thing I noticed was the clutch's friction zone wasn't quite what I was used to on other bikes..

 

Any thoughts or comments?

[TEW47]

I am a MSF instructor also and I teach the ERC on my RSV. You can do the offset weaves and the 24 ft. x 70 ft box it just takes practice! Keep the clutch in the friction zone and use a slite amount of rear brake and lock handle bars to left or right and lean opposite the direction of the turn. Keep a steady throttle. Hope this helps. With alot of practice you can do the 20ft. box. Try going around in a circle for a while in each direction.

 

tew47

[Tom]

How many miles are on the bike? Did you buy it new? Before I replaced the clutch I would flush the fluid. ( I am suspecting the clutch). I found out the hard way to flush those fluids every so often.I thought I was loosing my clutch but flushed the entire system and its better that ever. It should not be at the release point.Tom

[Seaking]

I am a MSF instructor also and I teach the ERC on my RSV. You can do the offset weaves and the 24 ft. x 70 ft box it just takes practice! Keep the clutch in the friction zone and use a slite amount of rear brake and lock handle bars to left or right and lean opposite the direction of the turn. Keep a steady throttle. Hope this helps. With alot of practice you can do the 20ft. box. Try going around in a circle for a while in each direction.

 

tew47

 

Thanks Tew, the MOSTII test isn't hard to do, but the friction zone on the bike is what I'm concerned about..

[Seaking]

How many miles are on the bike? Did you buy it new? Before I replaced the clutch I would flush the fluid. ( I am suspecting the clutch). I found out the hard way to flush those fluids every so often.I thought I was loosing my clutch but flushed the entire system and its better that ever. It should not be at the release point.Tom

 

it's an 06 with 36,000 miles on it.. I'm the 3rd owner.. the previous owner also didn't have warranty on it as he bought from a yank down south. After seeing how bad the fuel filter was, I doubt much had been done to it.. I'll see about booking some time to get the fluid flushed and see how that works.. Is this something that can be done 'easily' at home or best left to the experts?

 

Thanks

[KiteSquid]

Your bike DOES have a warranty, just not in Canada... you have to take it south of the border...

 

 

 

The good thing about hydraulic clutch linkages is they are self adjusting, less maintenance.

 

The bad thing about hydraulic clutch linkages is they are self adjusting, you cant control where the friction zone is.

 

 

The clutch in these bikes takes a little more finesse than some, so do what you tell your students to do and practice learning the friction zone of your unique bike.

 

It will be easy!!!!!! and FUN!!!!!

[Tom]

it's an 06 with 36,000 miles on it.. I'm the 3rd owner.. the previous owner also didn't have warranty on it as he bought from a yank down south. After seeing how bad the fuel filter was, I doubt much had been done to it.. I'll see about booking some time to get the fluid flushed and see how that works.. Is this something that can be done 'easily' at home or best left to the experts?

 

Thanks

 

It is a simple job,I knew nothing of how to do it but I searched the tech forum and found out about speed bleeders and followed those in structions.I will try and find and post the link..Squid has the part #s for the bleeders once you get those its EASY! If you have a 2nd person and bleed it just like bleeding brakes it is simple. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7820&highlight=speed+bleeders

Edited June 15, 2009 by Tom
added link

[pegscraper]

They're not designed to be adjustable. But one thing you might do is grind a little off of the pushrod between the lever and the piston. That would bring the lever in some. The only other thing you could do is let a little air bubble in the line...

[Seaking]

It is a simple job,I knew nothing of how to do it but I searched the tech forum and found out about speed bleeders and followed those in structions.I will try and find and post the link..Squid has the part #s for the bleeders once you get those its EASY! If you have a 2nd person and bleed it just like bleeding brakes it is simple. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7820&highlight=speed+bleeders

 

Thanks M8.. I'll have a boo at it..

 

generally speaking, is the clutch fluid much darker than the brake fluid?

[GeorgeS]

2 year old bike, Yamaha used DOT - 3 most likley.

 

Replace ALL the fluid !! Clutch, and Brakes systems, Its the right thing to do !!

Use DOT - 4, or Valvoline Synthectic Fluid.

[saddlebum]

The easist way I know of getting a feel for the friction zone and (and I use this when teaching people to drive standard caras as well ) is with the vehicle parked, in gear and brakes applied slowily let the clutch out until you feel the engine rpm drop or the engine about to stall then pull the clutch back in ( with a car push it back down) Do this over and over again and each time try to do it a little quicker. After awhile your mind and hand just seem to instinctivly know were to expect this transition to take place, and you dont even have to think about it.

[Tom]

Thanks M8.. I'll have a boo at it..

 

generally speaking, is the clutch fluid much darker than the brake fluid?

 

It should be the same color unless the fluid is getting ol..Mine turned almost black looking . Uses same fluid.

[saddlebum]

It should be the same color unless the fluid is getting ol..Mine turned almost black looking . Uses same fluid.

Clutch fluid as does brake fluid absorbs moisture over time. As this occures the fluid gets darker. Also though I have seen this occur rarely some people think brake fluid hydraulic fluid and trans mission fluid are the same thing, and will sometimes substitute one for the other. This is defifnitly a NO NO. Any fluid that is petrolium based will ruin (usually swell ) the rubber parts in the system. another thing that will darken the fluid is the natural wear of internal compnents in the system not usually something to worry about just change the fluid.

[Tom]

Here is an article that may help..I use DOT4 Brake fluid,called Yamaha to verify. Here is an article that helps explain. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0306_hydraulic_clutch_service/index.html

[rod]

I am a rider coach as well and have done all of the BRC and ERC on the Venture. Practice the friction zone and you will get it. Fluching the fluid might help. Good luck Rod

[SteveW]

I just flushed all the fluids on my 2005 RSV this weekend. Its been a year and they needed it. It was getting alittle hard to down shift now its smooth again.

 

I picked up a one man bleeder at Auto Zone for 6.00 and it works great. Easy to use with the collection bottle. It does a great job at cleaning the system.

 

Steve

[Seaking]

I just flushed all the fluids on my 2005 RSV this weekend. Its been a year and they needed it. It was getting alittle hard to down shift now its smooth again.

 

I picked up a one man bleeder at Auto Zone for 6.00 and it works great. Easy to use with the collection bottle. It does a great job at cleaning the system.

 

Steve

 

Thanks Steve, I just had the bike for a safety inspection (requirement here) and asked them about it.. They say it's a 30 man minute job.. so might as well have them do it now and learn from them how it's done for next time..

 

What's the one man bleeder thing?

 

Thanks

[Seaking]

The easist way I know of getting a feel for the friction zone and (and I use this when teaching people to drive standard caras as well ) is with the vehicle parked, in gear and brakes applied slowily let the clutch out until you feel the engine rpm drop or the engine about to stall then pull the clutch back in ( with a car push it back down) Do this over and over again and each time try to do it a little quicker. After awhile your mind and hand just seem to instinctivly know were to expect this transition to take place, and you dont even have to think about it.

 

Thanks guys, I know about how to practice it as I teach it also.. I'm asking about the Venture specifically as it is different than any cable clutch bike I've ridden before.. it's the hydraulic clutch system that I'm having difficulty finessing, might be because I need to change the black fluid out of it for some nice clean stuff, ya know?

 

But I can hold the bike at a stand still with the clutch, brake and throttle.. friction zone yeah..

[Seaking]

Here is an article that may help..I use DOT4 Brake fluid,called Yamaha to verify. Here is an article that helps explain. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/122_0306_hydraulic_clutch_service/index.html

 

Oooh compared to the fluid shown in this demo, mine pitch black lol.. ouch.. time to get THAT taken care of.. quick!!

[Tom]

Seaking,Let me know the outcome.I know after I did mine it seemed better than when new.Probably because it took awhile to get to that point!

[midnightventure]

I replaced my clutch spring with one of the heavy duty PCW springs. Doing that decreased the distance from the handlebar for the clutch to start engaging.

[wes0778]

I picked up a one man bleeder at Auto Zone for 6.00 and it works great. Easy to use with the collection bottle. It does a great job at cleaning the system.

 

Steve

 

:backinmyday:One thing no one has mentioned here is to remind those who have never done this before is to lay the cover back on the reservoir, so that little "water pistol stream" does not get on the bike, the floor or in your eyes (yes safety glasses are a PLUS, but don't ask me how I know that!) when you pull the lever.

It is probably a good idea to lay a heavy towel over the tank too.

[BigBoyinMS]

And here is a great article explaining why DOT 4 is the best to use. Best brake fluid type

[Seaking]

Seaking,Let me know the outcome.I know after I did mine it seemed better than when new.Probably because it took awhile to get to that point!

 

I should hope to be able to let you know after thursday when I get back from a ride.. got a bunch of stuff I need to get done and run before anything else gets going.. ; )

[RJD]

I have never been real happy with the way my clutch worked. I am getting ready for a 7000 mile trip so I order and installed a rebuild kit for the master cylinder. It shifts better and the clutch starts to engage sooner than before. Also the lever returns all the way out now where as before it wouldn't. Of course it has all new fluid as part of the process but I usually change the fluid yearly and changing the fluid did not make that much difference in the past.