After market TCI ?

[6m459]

Here is a question that occurred to me while riding along worrying about my blue '84's intermittent misfire and thinking 25 y.o. TCI.

 

Does anyone make an aftermarket TCI that can be used on the First Gen xvz12 / 13's ?

 

I subscribe to a few classic bike mags and in the small ads at the back there are often outfits that advertise electronic ignition upgrade kits for older, ie 50's 60's and 70's, bikes that originally had points and condenser (British mag) type ignitions.

 

I realize that the first gen xvz12 / 13's would be a small niche market and so on but old bikes from the 50's 60's and 70's can't be that big a market either. I see, or think I see second gen xvz aftermarket TCI's on ebay from time to time. What about Vmax's they share similar engine type and they like to go fast, you'd think some enterprising somebody would have come up with an aftermarket Vmax one by now that would be the cats a$$. So it wouldn't really be that small a niche. Or maybe they exist but cost so much you can buy 10 first gens for the price so no one bothers.

 

What do we know about this folks? Likely I'd have read about such a thing here already if it were a practical solution but, well I had to ask while I procrastinate and generally put off going hunting for my bikes intermittent ignition fault.

 

Thanks,

 

Brian H.

[mbrood]

Those kits are generally for 2 cyliner bikes. I've never heard of a replacement for the Venture. But there were some revisions of that part and the most vital was upgrading from some glass diodes that were prone to go intermittant or just fail...

 

The TCI is definitely the ignition "brain" and has two "handy" vent holes on the mounted top side that LOVE letting water in, so a bake out is definitely in order.

 

While it's out you can check the ignition coil to plug performance... just disconnect the large white plug on the TCI, turn the ignition on and make a MOMENTARY short to ground on the wires located at pins 3,2,6 and 7 (respective) to check out each system... with the appropriate plug out, hooked up to the wire and properly grounded to chassis.

 

Don't expect a bright spark, these systems give a lack-luster blue spark at best.

 

http://www.bergall.org/temp/venture/tci/tciplugs.jpg

 

When and if you get that TCI out... you might want to open it and pull the circuit board. Early TCI units used glass power diodes that are a: fragile and b. prone to failure... there are 8 and can easily be replced with just about anything from the 1N4000 family of ceramic coated power diodes. (1N4001=100v reverse brakdown voltage, 1N4002=200v... )

 

You are looking for the 8 round, gray/blue, diodes near the output power transistors...

 

http://www.bergall.org/temp/venture/tci/tci1.jpg

[Oldgold]

Dyna 3000 #D3K7-7 was for V-Max, but apparently was discontinued as of May 09.

[mbrood]

But an 88 V-Max ignition module is 1FK-82305-10-00 and the Venture is 41R-82305-11-00 I'm pretty sure it's not anything like a direct replacement for the Venture.

 

But there is one of those Syna modules on ebay right now... item 260421372988

[RandyR]

http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm makes a generic (general purpose) unit that is user programmable and is used on a list of about 100 different models of motorcycles.

 

The company fits their ignition units with various types of connectors as required by the motorcycle it is to be used with.

 

The company will provide default spark timing based on the characteristics of the engine. Or you can program it with a home computer or laptop to fine tune your engine to your requirements.

 

 

The units cost about 120Euros or $200 US dollars. They are made in Czech Republic.

Edited July 3, 2009 by RandyR

[RandyR]

The website for Ignitech says they already have made their pre-programmed TCI work with the Venture. It says Ventura but I'm sure it means Venture, they speak limited English.

[Dano]

Here is a question that occurred to me while riding along worrying about my blue '84's intermittent misfire and thinking 25 y.o. TCI.

 

Brian H.

 

 

Your intermittent misfire may be caused by a bad connection in the 8 pin plug going into the TCI. I finally found mine last nite, the 1/4" female plug inside the connector was not touching the blade coming out of the TCI on the orange (#1 cyl) blade. It doesn't contact the flat portion of the female tab, but rather the 2 rounded blades that come down from the top. I stuck a very small finishing nail through the back of the plug to bend those 2 tabs down a little, and voila, it started firing again! Might want to check that out, along with cleaning them very good inside.

 

Dan

[RandyR]

I sent an email to Ignitech specifically asking about the use of their electronics on the first Gen Ventures. Here's their reply:

 

XVZ12 (1983-1985) 1200CC first generation

There are 4 pickups and 4 coils on this bike. We did ignition for it. We

used 2 units TCI.

Now we have prepared solution with one TCIP4 full unit but we haven't tested

it yet.

 

XVZ13 (1986-1993) 1300cc first generation

There are 1 pickups and 4 coils on this bike. We did ignition for it.

 

XVZ13TF (1999-2009) 1300cc second generation

We don't know this bike. You would give us more information.

 

Regards

 

Jan Matous

"IGNITECH - Jan Matouš"

Ignitech s.r.o.

 

 

 

It doesn't appear anyone here is interested in pursuing the aftermarket TCI made by Ignitech in Europe, and I don't have a 1st gen so am merely posting this info since I was aware of the company, and their product for another bike of mine.

[tvking63]

Hey guys. New to the forum but signed up to post here.

 

My 84 has crapped it's second TCI box in less than a year. The first replacement was a used 25 yo piece of crap with the same junk glass diodes. I have replaced the diodes in the second box with no joy.

 

I really hate the idea of installing another used 25 year old box so I've been looking at the Igitech solution.

 

As RandyR state they have a setup that uses 2 of there boxes wire together in order to fire all 4 coils on the Venture (most 4 cyl bike only have 2 coils) But they're working on a single box solution.

 

I've been supplying them with some info they need to build the single box setup. It looks like it will be about $200 including shipping. Every salvage yard that has one wants more than that for used one.

 

I've been swapping e-mails with them and even a phone call but the language barrier is making things really difficult. When I get this all straightened out, I'll let you guys know how it all went down and hopefully they can get a part# so you can just order one.

 

If we're gonna keep these old tugboats on the road, at some point, just putting on different 25 year old parts isn't gong to cut it. It seems like this might be the answer to the TCI problem.

Edited September 3, 2009 by tvking63

[skydoc_17]

Hey Todd,

Welcome to the forum andGood Job, Please keep us posted on what you find out about these TCI's. I am very interested. I have an 87'VR and am on my second TCI myself. I twist a pretty good wrench but am "Electrically Challanged" to say the least.

Thanks for your help on this issue,

Earl

[Venturous Randy]

I want to again note that if your are having poor running, starting and other issues on your bike, check the resistance readings thru your side stand switch. I was ready to start looking for another TCI after I removed the connectors and cleaned and tightened them good. I eventually found my side stand switch had high resistance readings and needed cleaning. I took it loose and sprayed contact cleaner in it several times and quickly operated the plunger and my resistance went to Zero and now my bike is running the best it has in a looooong time.

Not to hijack your thread, but I hope others will do more research before hunting for another TCI and I do hope another source becomes available for us.

RandyA

[tvking63]

RandyA, from what I can see in the wiring diagram, the side stand switch doesn't directly interact with the TCI. It trips the side stand relay which then outputs to the TCI. Not sure how cleaning the switch would make a difference. It should either trip the relay, or not.

 

It's all a moot point for me since with the side stand up or the sides stand down and the trans in neutral, the B/W wire in the 6 pin connector has ∞ (infinite) resistance to ground when the key is on, as it should.

 

Just for giggles, I pulled the B/W wire out of the connector just to be sure and still no start.

[painterman67]

Hey guys. New to the forum but signed up to post here.

 

My 84 has crapped it's second TCI box in less than a year. The first replacement was a used 25 yo piece of crap with the same junk glass diodes. I have replaced the diodes in the second box with no joy.

 

I really hate the idea of installing another used 25 year old box so I've been looking at the Igitech solution.

 

As RandyR state they have a setup that uses 2 of there boxes wire together in order to fire all 4 coils on the Venture (most 4 cyl bike only have 2 coils) But they're working on a single box solution.

 

I've been supplying them with some info they need to build the single box setup. It looks like it will be about $200 including shipping. Every salvage yard that has one wants more than that for used one.

 

I've been swapping e-mails with them and even a phone call but the language barrier is making thinks really difficult. When I get this all straightened out, I'll let you guys know how it all went down and hopefully they can get a part# so you can just order one.

 

If we're gonna keep these old tugboats on the road, at some point, just putting on different 25 year old parts isn't gong to cut it. It seems like this might be the answer to the TCI problem.

 

 

 

 

dont know if this will help but I have a second tci out of a 91 that is dropping #1 cylinder and not operating the tach. I would be glad to send it to them if they think it would give them an idea on where to start.

 

David

[RandyR]

dont know if this will help but I have a second tci out of a 91 that is dropping #1 cylinder and not operating the tach. I would be glad to send it to them if they think it would give them an idea on where to start.

 

David

 

I think Ignitech has a working unit for the 1st gen xvz13's with a single pickup coil.

 

Its their xvz12 solution that they are re-enginering so only one box is required.

[Venturous Randy]

RandyA, from what I can see in the wiring diagram, the side stand switch doesn't directly interact with the TCI. It trips the side stand relay which then outputs to the TCI. Not sure how cleaning the switch would make a difference. It should either trip the relay, or not.

 

I had enough resistance in the side stand switch that it was causing the side stand relay to be intermittent, causing the bike to stop running and have poor starting or if the resistance would drop and the side stand relay would work properly, the bike would run ok.

What I am trying to stress here is before someone automatically assumes the TCI is bad, check for resistance in the side stand switch to make sure the side stand relay is working as it should, therefore providing correct output to the TCI. This should also apply to resistance in the kill switch. If there is no resistance in the side stand switch, that area for a problem can be eliminated.

It may not be directly connected to the TCI, but it is directly connected to the side stand switch relay, which alway has to work correctly for the TCI to work.

RandyA

[6m459]

Thanks Todd / tvking63, for pursuing this and for sharing the info with us. Please keep us updated.

 

I think its the way to go, 25 y.o. eletronics aren't a long term solution as you so astutely observe.

 

I, and my two old tugboats, thank you for your efforts!

 

Cheers.

 

Brian H.

 

Hey guys. New to the forum but signed up to post here.

 

My 84 has crapped it's second TCI box in less than a year. The first replacement was a used 25 yo piece of crap with the same junk glass diodes. I have replaced the diodes in the second box with no joy.

 

I really hate the idea of installing another used 25 year old box so I've been looking at the Igitech solution.

 

If we're gonna keep these old tugboats on the road, at some point, just putting on different 25 year old parts isn't gong to cut it. It seems like this might be the answer to the TCI problem.

Edited July 16, 2009 by 6m459
clarity

[Yammer Dan]

Thanks Todd / tvking63, for pursuing this and for sharing the info with us. Please keep us updated.

 

I think its the way to go, 25 y.o. eletronics aren't a long term solution as you so astutely observe.

 

I, and my two old tugboats, thank you for your efforts!

 

Cheers.

 

Brian H.

:sign yeah that:

 

 

I'll second all that. Let us know what you come up with.

[tvking63]

Well, they say that they have it all figured out. They needed the order in which the pistons come to TDC, ......not the firing order. It took a lot of head scratching, looking a the manual and running it by other guys to make sure I got it right. It's 1-2-3-4 FWIW. I think they needed to know where to throw the waste spark. It looks like they will combine 2 coils at the box, making them fire together.

 

We will connect two pick ups together because our ignition has only two inputs. We have to connect pickups that work one after another.

We need to know order how cylinder go to TDC. Order how cyliners are in high postions not order how they works.

 

Anyway, the guy who does "custom clearance" is on vacation so it will be next week until I get a invoice with final pricing.

[Yammer Dan]

Lost me on that one I would have thought firing order. But that is not right.

[tvking63]

Good news! It was shipped Tuesday. No clue how long it will take to get here by pack mule from the Czech Republic.

 

It came to €157.14 which at the current exchange rate is $229.45.

 

I'll post up details after I get it.

[6m459]

Thanks Tod,

 

I'll be watching this space to see how it goes!

 

I had to install my spare TCI this week and I'm feeling a bit exposed with no more spare.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

Brian H.

[tvking63]

I started a new thread with much more info [ame=http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?p=381016#post381016]here[/ame].

[theportunionkid]

want to replace diodes how do i get board out of plastic box. got screws out and small nuts loose do I have to unsolder connection at the connector tab end? Doesn't seem to want to come out with screws and nuts removed

[van avery]

See post http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=76443

there is a picture that is showing where to cut the top of the box off carefully with a hacksaw.

[Wizard765]

The screws come out but the nuts stay put. The nuts hold a heat sink onto the board. I unsoldered at the connectors to get the board out and it worked fine. Using a wick worked well for me. This way I didn't have to chew up the box.