2009 RSV Top Heavy Question

[Freebird]

Well heck...I hate to keep hearing about our family here getting in harms way. Glad you are OK and very sorry to hear about the bike.

[cecdoo]

Well hi again everyone. Here I was worried about being top heavy and now I don't have to worry about it for a while.

 

I was on my way back this afternoon from having the initial state inspection done on the bike and I was rear ended at a traffic light. Did quite a bit of damage to the bike but fortunately, I was not hurt. Little shook up, but not hurt.

 

So, looks like I am going to miss some of the nice early summer riding time.

 

Take care everyone.

 

Don

 

 

Really sorry to hear about the crash, hopefully they can get the bike fixed up or replaced quick. Good Luck Craig

[CMIKE]

Ohhh...I hate to hear that.

I am sick for you...I so glad to hear you are alright.

It makes me sick that your brand new bike is busted up. I know you are really disappointed.

I really hope they get you back on the road soon. There is so much pleasure ahead of you with the new bike.

 

Just a thought...You may want to add some lights to the rear of that bike to try to prevent that from happening again. This is the first mod I did to my bike...I did not think there was enough lights on the back end of it at all.... Some here say this may be illegal in some states but I will take my chances if they will not run over me.

This LED tail light and the strobe unit seems to wake them cages up. Kinda of a two stage "wake up cage I am stopping" It may be my imagination but it seems that a quick flash of the strobe unit seems to back off the tailgaters also.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32917

[frogmaster]

Thanks everyone - I need to get to the local park parking lot (where there are very few cars) and spend some hours practicing, practicing, practicing

 

Don,

 

I was a new venture driver last fall 2008. I took MSF.Org class BASIC and Advanced using their 250cc. bought my Venture then trailered it to empty High School parking lot on saturday a.m. and did 42 miles (In parking lot) of all the maneuvers learned at MSF. BEFORE I hit the streets.

Then Sunday a.m. did them same 2-up for another 30-someting miles (in the parking lot) then hit the streets. Top Heavy is a degree of your skills and GRAVITY! Yes I laid it down softly twice on Saturday. I'm 5' 8" 200lbs with 30 inch inseam + 1" Boot heal helps too.

Edited June 11, 2009 by frogmaster
spelling

[DonWood]

Hi Mike - Yep I plan on putting on a brighter stop light. I had installed one that modulates when the running lights are on and flashes constantly when the brake lights are on but had replaced it with the regular bulb when I took it in for inspection. When I got home I was going to put it back in.

 

I had checked at the PA State Police Barracks and they told me it was ok, but I did not want to take a chance on it failing the inspection because of it.

 

Now I am going to do an even brighter one and probably add one of the bar lights to the back also.

 

Maybe a set of air horns pointed behind me that are hooked up to a sensor unit that toot a long blast automatically if someone gets too close too fast! . That would be nice!

Meanwhile I talked with both insurance companies, mine and theirs. If I don't hear back from their insurance soon, I am just going to turn it over to mine. I have GEICO and they were extremely helpful. Said not to worry, even if I turn it over to them, it will not count in any way against me since it was not my fault.

 

I would like to have it repaired at the dealership where I purchased it since I will be taking the bike back there for all maintenance, warranty work, etc. I think that way if something in the future turns up because of the accident, it would be more likely I could get it fixed easily.

 

Take care everyone.

[Maritimer]

I am a short 5' 4" with 29" inseam. Using the leveling links was not an option to me so instead I lowered the front end by 1 1/8". The handleing at parking lot speed is much better and the scoot feels much lighter. If I were taller I would also put on the leveling link and see if that would make it even better.

[V7Goose]

Hi Everyone:

 

I am really in a quandry. I feel like my 2009 RSV is top heavy and have read threads that say to lower the back end, to not lower the back end, to change tires on the front, etc. There seem to be cons and pros for all options. The dealer said that lowering the back end without lowering the front would make it worse. The dealer also said they don't recommend changing tire sizes. The dealer also told me that they had someone come in who had put on the lowering kit and took it back off within a week. Said it made it very unstable in parking lots, etc and made it more top heavy.

 

Thanks everyone for your help.

Don Wood - New Venture owner

Don, I am very sorry to hear about the accident - there is no doubt that the stock tail light is poor - in fact, it is completely unacceptable to me. Additional rear lights, some higher, are a critically needed addition.

 

But to your initial question - I don't know where you saw any advice that said LOWERING the rear of this bike would improve the handling (I don't recall seeing that posted here). More importantly, NOTHING could be further from the truth for this bike. Changing the height of either end of a bike will change both the rake and trail, which absolutely will change the handling. Whether that change is better or worse all depends on how the bike is designed and the change you are looking for. Raising the rear (or lowering the front) generally makes a bike handle faster and feel lighter; lowering the rear improves straight line tracking but makes the handling feel sluggish and the bike heavier.

 

At the risk of repeating what is in about 10,000 other threads here, I will briefly recap a couple of other points dealing with tires. The stock Brickstones are the absolute worst possible tires for this bike (LOTS of reasons I won't cover here); the front is so grossly misshapen and overly fat that the bike virtually never runs more than 3/4 of the way past center line, even in spirited cornering. The profile of this tire tries to force the forks to full lock the instant a turn is initiated, and that problem is most evident at slow speeds.

 

The stock Dunlop tires are not near as bad for this, but they still are only a mediocre tire. Any good tire in stock size will greatly improve the low speed handling and make the bike feel MUCH lighter, even without raising the rear. My personal preference is for either the Avon Venom or Dunlop E3.

 

In general, I no longer recommend the change to a narrower front tire. There is a lot of information in other threads about using a narrower front tire, particularly one by me title something like "Recap of front tire size". I suggest you look those up.

Goose

Edited June 12, 2009 by V7Goose

[DonWood]

Thanks so much Goose, I really appreciate the information. I am brand new to the Venture but I understand that the front can be lowered rather easily? Once the bike is back from the repair shop from the rear ender, I think I will give that a try!

[kj4v]

The Venture is a beast! The best money I spent was on Ride like a pro. There was also some free classes here where I live teaching the same riding principals. Using the rear brake along with the clutch friction zone is how I deal with the Beast.........Ken

[Buriner]

I bought the links from Diamond R, I only got to try them out for a short while but there was a world of difference, way better parking lot handling. I did think that the Diamond R ones were a bit expensive, $88.00 plus shipping to Canada ($40.00 is probably a fairer price for them). I saw the link here on making your own, I don't know why I didn't do that, I have access to a machine shop and all the gear required, actually they would have been quite simple to make. Cost would have been $0.00. Oh well, live and learn. Definitely better handling though.

[atlm]

The stock Brickstones are the absolute worst possible tires for this bike ... The profile of this tire tries to force the forks to full lock the instant a turn is initiated, and that problem is most evident at slow speeds.

 

So that's why, when I test rode an '05, I was having to hold the handlebars from cramming themselves into full lock whenever I turned the bike around. I thought something was messed up with the bike, like maybe it had been in an accident or something else I wasn't told about. My '06 doesn't do that, and it's got Dunlops. It's all making more sense now. Thanks!

 

Something that doesn't make sense to me yet, though, is "leveling links" versus lowering the front by sliding up the forks. Won't both do the same thing, as far as tilting the bike forward? Or are the links preferred because they give more cornering clearance, where lowering the front reduces it?

[V7Goose]

So that's why, when I test rode an '05, I was having to hold the handlebars from cramming themselves into full lock whenever I turned the bike around. I thought something was messed up with the bike, like maybe it had been in an accident or something else I wasn't told about. My '06 doesn't do that, and it's got Dunlops. It's all making more sense now. Thanks!

 

Something that doesn't make sense to me yet, though, is "leveling links" versus lowering the front by sliding up the forks. Won't both do the same thing, as far as tilting the bike forward? Or are the links preferred because they give more cornering clearance, where lowering the front reduces it?

All stock RSVs with stock tires have a heavy feel at low speed and some tendency to fall into slow turns by exhibiting very progressive steering (that is the tendency to force the forks to full-lock that I originally described), but only that horrible Brickstone front tire is REALLY REALLY REALLY bad for that. Any narrower front tire improves that, and ALL brands of tires I have found in stock 150/80-16 size are materially more narrow than that terrible Brickstone.

[ATTACH]38285[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]38286[/ATTACH]

Just to illustrate my point, the top five tires in the attached pix are all 150/80-16 front tires taken off RSVs - from top down: Metzeler, Dunlop 404, Brickstone, Brickstone, Pirelli. Notice the huge difference in width, diameter, and shape (some much more rounded) for these different tires! That alone accounts for much of the very different handling that they each exhibit on the same bike. If you look for my old posts on tires, you will find this information is much detail.

 

On the 2nd question - yes, raising the rear or lowering the front by equal amounts does provide the same change to rake and trail, so the handling changes will be the same. Raising the rear is preferred when the rider is tall enough because it increases cornering clearance and maintains easy access to the front fork air valves. In addition, it is easy to get the actual position of the forks slightly different in the triple trees when they are not simply positioned flush with the top bracket, and that would make a NASTY change in handling.

Goose

[wngrr]

All big bikes are hard to ride in confined spaces. I bought a new 1800 goldwing in 2003 and put 65,000 miles on it before it was sold. It got much easier to ride in confined spaces the more I did it, but it still requried my full attention. My 2009 RSV, in my opinion, is not any harder to ride in parking lots than the goldwing with its lower center of gravity. I keep hearing people talk about the high center of gravity of the RSV but I believe the bike is very well balanced and very easy to ride. To me the key is giving yourself time to get used to what you are riding.

 

 

I love this bike and look forward to putting 65000 on it...