New LOUD gear whine - opinions?

[Squeeze]

Good Job,

 

making Shims sounds pretty much like Job one of our Machinists would be up to ?

 

Maybe Laser Cutting stainless Sheets in different Thicknesses would be the best Solution ?

 

I mean, machining such a big Hole in to a thin Sheet isn't funny and will mostly likely end in multiple Tries until one Piece is done.

[CMIKE]

If anyone is watching this I'm going to keep updating this thread till I'm done.

 

Thanks to Squeeze for mentioning checking the gap with the axle rotated. I guess I had gotten tunnel-vision by the time I got to that point and didn't even think.

I rotated and torqued the axle every 90 degrees and got the gap down to .038"-.039". Now I have to find a source for some .020" shim stock. I made a pattern from a piece of manila folder. I tried to measure and draw it first until I remembered the old fashioned way of making gaskets using a ballpeen hammer. Worked like a charm.

 

 

Try WW Grainger for the Shim stock. My company buys it from then when they need it. They may have some Brass and Stainless steel in stock.

REally interested in what you find out.

[BigBoyinMS]

I did a quick check of Grainger last night and it looks like they sell sheets of shim stock in packs of 10 starting around $80. I'll check them closer today. I'll try some other local suppliers and see if I can find what I need in individual sheets. If not, I've already considered checking the thickness of steel or aluminum license plates. I know road signs are made in .040" and 0.80" so I may check with the city people for old signs. The thickness I need is .038" or .039" and I'll be happy with .040" even if I have to stack 0.10" or .020". The thinner stuff I can probably make using the ball peen method. The thicker I'll probably sandwich between 2 pieces of thin plywood and use a holesaw, jigsaw and drill bits.

As you can see, I would rather use my imagination to keep it inexpensive and do it myself as much as possible. I get as much pleasure tinkering as riding.

[BigBoyinMS]

Well, it's all back together and it's a lot quieter. Some of the noise could have been the pins because they were slightly dry. But the last time I lubed, 3000 miles ago with bearing grease, it didn't get this quiet. As expected, I still have the tiny bit of "George Jetson Car" that I always had but the whine that has always been a bit louder than the chirp is mostly not there now. I haven't put the bags back on and maybe they will reflect the noise up to my ears so if anything changes after I put them back on I'll update this.

[CMIKE]

How much shim did you put in...or did you at all?

Now exactly how did you come up with how much shim you needed?

 

I saw that post where a dealer did a guys bike here but seems he said after a certian point a rear end replacment was in order and done regularly.

 

Good information you have shared so far.

[Marcy]

Could someone with "the noise", that has changed the final drive gear oil to no avail, PLEASE lube their drive shaft splines with Honda Moly60 and report back if it corrected the noise????

 

I think that it was where 90% of the excess noise my bike was making came from, but regrettably I changed the final drive gear oil (That I fortified with some Honda Moly60) at the same time, so I can't be certain.

 

 

 

I had this done and mine isn't any better.

Another issue that affects how much people are complaining of the "whine" is the helmet they wear. When I wear my full- or open-face helmet the "whine" doesn't bother me as much. BUT I prefer to wear my 3/4 helmet that has the foam/leather/insulation-type over the ears and not the fiberglass over the ear area. My 'whine' is deafening.

[FreezyRider]

Well, it's all back together and it's a lot quieter. Some of the noise could have been the pins because they were slightly dry. But the last time I lubed, 3000 miles ago with bearing grease, it didn't get this quiet. As expected, I still have the tiny bit of "George Jetson Car" that I always had but the whine that has always been a bit louder than the chirp is mostly not there now. I haven't put the bags back on and maybe they will reflect the noise up to my ears so if anything changes after I put them back on I'll update this.

 

Any updates on this?

 

Joe

[Bobby G]

The "whine", the "chirp", the "Jetson-mobile", whatever you want to call it, is generated by the clutch. It's provided free of charge on all 1999 - 2009 RSV's, and there is nothing that can be done to completely eradicate it. I just came from a meeting with Yami folks in Cypress (other business related), and they confirmed what most knowledgeable mechanics have been saying for years.....it's the design of the clutch.

 

They said the first one to find a 100% fix for it wins a cookie!

[LilBeaver]

You may be on to something. I've got a 3/4 helmet and when I upgraded my g/f's helmet to also include an intercom the whine that I was hearing got a lot worse. Mostly occurring at high speeds, steep high bank angles or long time periods without a pee break. Before I put the headset in her helmet I could barley hear it -- it was usually just a 'thump' on the back of my helmet.

I suppose other's experience(s) probably differ. :-P

 

...

Another issue that affects how much people are complaining of the "whine" is the helmet they wear. When I wear my full- or open-face helmet the "whine" doesn't bother me as much. BUT I prefer to wear my 3/4 helmet that has the foam/leather/insulation-type over the ears and not the fiberglass over the ear area. My 'whine' is deafening.

[Ponch]

You may be on to something. I've got a 3/4 helmet and when I upgraded my g/f's helmet to also include an intercom the whine that I was hearing got a lot worse. Mostly occurring at high speeds, steep high bank angles or long time periods without a pee break. Before I put the headset in her helmet I could barley hear it -- it was usually just a 'thump' on the back of my helmet.

I suppose other's experience(s) probably differ. :-P

 

I've been watching this and similar threads about the "chirp" since I came on the board and I gotta tell ya, I'm not sure too many folks have managed to resolve it. The clutch basket upgrade seems to have resolved it for some, changes in lubrication for others. I think it's kinda like the old BSA motorcycles of the 60's. Some noises are just characterisitc of the machine they come from. Don't get me wrong, I think it should be quiet, but with the design of the straight cut gears, I'm not sure it ever will be w/o redesign.

It helps to know where the noise comes from. There are apparantly several sources with similar noises. Nobody seems to have a definate, one-size-fits-all cure for the gearcase whine or "chirp". Dry splines and other inadequate lubrication issues as well as final drive alignment can explain a lot of final drive noise. I think you just have to check everything and rely on the experts here who are tying to help with their experience.

Thanks to those here who don't mind sharing their findings and knoweledge.

[BigBoyinMS]

After putting a few miles on it, it is quieter. The Chirp has never really been that bad on mine and it really had nothing to do with this issue. It was the gear whine that changed and got louder. After I did the complete Moly lube and shim, it seems that part of the noise is better but I still have a lot of whine on accelleration or decelleration. If I equalize the rpms where the drive line is coasting then it's quiet. The part of the noise that I THINK is better is probably any noise that would come from the drive fingers. I had lubed them with bearing grease 3000 miles previously but since the fingers sit in one spot and do not rotate the grease gets pushed away from where the fingers push against the bushing. The Moly should last a lot longer.

I've been trying to pinpoint where the whine is coming from and it seems to be from the diff. I'm going to try and record each area (diff, tranny left, clutch right) with an mp3 player and see if I can isolate where it's coming from.

I have a theory or at least something we should check. Has anyone that added Moly to their diff oil had any extra gear noise start within 1000 miles? I wouldn't think it would cause it but my noise started a few hundred miles after an oil change where at the same time I changed diff oil and I also added some Moly for the first time. When I did the lube I changed diff oil again and added Moly again so I think my next step is to drain and refill with clean gear oil. Just to be sure. I already changed engine oil back to 15w40 Rotella from 5w40 Rotella Syn.

[FreezyRider]

After putting a few miles on it, it is quieter. The Chirp has never really been that bad on mine and it really had nothing to do with this issue. It was the gear whine that changed and got louder. After I did the complete Moly lube and shim, it seems that part of the noise is better but I still have a lot of whine on accelleration or decelleration. If I equalize the rpms where the drive line is coasting then it's quiet. The part of the noise that I THINK is better is probably any noise that would come from the drive fingers. I had lubed them with bearing grease 3000 miles previously but since the fingers sit in one spot and do not rotate the grease gets pushed away from where the fingers push against the bushing. The Moly should last a lot longer.

I've been trying to pinpoint where the whine is coming from and it seems to be from the diff. I'm going to try and record each area (diff, tranny left, clutch right) with an mp3 player and see if I can isolate where it's coming from.

I have a theory or at least something we should check. Has anyone that added Moly to their diff oil had any extra gear noise start within 1000 miles? I wouldn't think it would cause it but my noise started a few hundred miles after an oil change where at the same time I changed diff oil and I also added some Moly for the first time. When I did the lube I changed diff oil again and added Moly again so I think my next step is to drain and refill with clean gear oil. Just to be sure. I already changed engine oil back to 15w40 Rotella from 5w40 Rotella Syn.

 

I am convinced that every bike, and every "whine" is different. I have also become convinced that the CHIRP is the exact same thing as the whine, only in a magnified form.

When I got my 99, it had Amsoil in it. Not being a fan of synthetics due to my previous experience with Rotella 5w-40 on my Goldwing, I drained the Amsoil and put in Rotella 15w-40 dino oil. A friend had luck getting rid of the whine by switching from synthetic to dino so why not give it a try? Well, let me tell you.....that whine became a literal SCREAM. Couldn't stand it. So, with only about 100 miles on the dino, I drained it and switched to Castrol 20w-50, the oil of choice on my Goldwing. Again, 100 miles later I found myself draining that oil...still screaming like a banshee.

At this point in time I changed the rear drive unit to a VMAX drive. When I pulled the drive pins, they were terrible. Solid rust. No lube at all. Cleaned everything up, lubed with Moly 60, and reinstalled. I also added Rotella 5w-40 Synthetic to the engine. Why not try?

 

The whine is still there. Only now it is bearable. If I wear my modular helmet it is nearly gone unless I am listening for it. At cruising speed all I can hear is my Baron's 4-2-4 Nasty Boys. Just the way it should be!

 

I don't think you can ever totally get rid of the whine or chirp on a bike that has a serious case of it. You can change the frequency, the volume, the rpm point at which it appears and disappears....but it will still be there. The key for me is getting it to where it doesn't remove all the joy from riding.

 

 

Joe

[ediddy]

The whine can be the rear diff. The type of helmet you wear shouldn't have anything to do with the sound. I had the whine/chirp and had the I basket installed before the 16,000 mile service. The whine/chirp went completely away. I had no noticeable noise no matter what kind of helmet I wore. At 24,000 miles I had the fifth rear diff installed by a yamaha factory rep. I thought the noise was from the clutch basket again but it was the rear diff. It would start as a slight whine and get worse until it would be a screaming whine that I couldn't drown out with ear plugs and loud music. People riding next to me could hear the scream. The factory rep said that yamaha had gotten some bad diffs from the manufacturer and had replaced some diffs three times but I was the first to have to be replaced five times. I was as the rep said "chewing up a rear end every 5,000 miles." I now have 43,000 miles and haven't had any problems since. At 30,000 miles I started getting a clicking noise in the rear and I thought it was the diff again so I contacted yamaha and told them I wanted a new bike. They asked me to let a factory rep look at my bike first. A different rep came up from Florida and said the rear end was fine and that the splines were dry. He is the rep that recommended using honda moly 60. He went to the honda dealer and bought some moly 60 and greased the read end and I haven't had any problems since. Yamaha didn't charge me then and has never charged me for any of the rear diffs or drive shaft. With the last rear diff they installed a new drive shaft and swing arm. Of course they shouldn't.

[LilBeaver]

After reading a few more posts I wanted to clarify. My implication is that the whine was coming from the backseat passenger/driver - and I could hear her better because of the intercom.

 

As far as the bike whine I get... Well, I keep up with my periodic/routine maintenance (complete fluid changes including oil, final drive oil, grease where needed, clutch/brake fluid, etc.) and I have just accepted the noises that the bike makes. I have a similar whine on my truck (02 F-250) that has been the same on almost every heavy duty pickup I have driven - so I just deal with it. Annoying yes - at times, but I am not going to trade my bike in for something else because of it. None the less I am definitely watching to see if/when someone comes up with a way to diminish it to satisfy my curiosity.

 

You may be on to something. I've got a 3/4 helmet and when I upgraded my g/f's helmet to also include a headset the whine that I was hearing got a lot worse. Mostly occurring at high speeds, steep high bank angles or long time periods without a pee break. Before I put the headset in her helmet I could barley hear it -- it was usually just a 'thump' on the back of my helmet.

I suppose other's experience(s) probably differ. :-P

[Freebird]

I agree that the noise is much worse with the headsets on the mic hot. I have a mic-mute on my bike and when I kill the mics....everything gets a LOT quieter. The mic picks up and really attenuates any whine.

[davecb]

I agree that the noise is much worse with the headsets on the mic hot. I have a mic-mute on my bike and when I kill the mics....everything gets a LOT quieter. The mic picks up and really attenuates any whine.

 

 

 

Yup, I turn my mike to face up. This alleviates a lot of the noises....

[CrazyHorse]

If anyone is watching this I'm going to keep updating this thread till I'm done.

 

Thanks to Squeeze for mentioning checking the gap with the axle rotated. I guess I had gotten tunnel-vision by the time I got to that point and didn't even think.

I rotated and torqued the axle every 90 degrees and got the gap down to .038"-.039". Now I have to find a source for some .020" shim stock. I made a pattern from a piece of manila folder. I tried to measure and draw it first until I remembered the old fashioned way of making gaskets using a ballpeen hammer. Worked like a charm.

 

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww202/BigBoyinMS/DSC01155.jpg

Where are you measuring for this? Do you have a photo measuring the gap and where to do it?

[BigBoyinMS]

Where are you measuring for this? Do you have a photo measuring the gap and where to do it?

Here you go... This is between the diff and driveshaft tube. There is a link to a bulletin on how to torque everything somewhere on the site. (I'll find it and post it here when I have another minute) Just follow the bulletin then loosen the 4 nuts showing in the pic and bump the diff with a rubber mallet. Then measure the gap.

 

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww202/BigBoyinMS/DSC01133.jpg

[CrazyHorse]

Here you go... This is between the diff and driveshaft tube. There is a link to a bulletin on how to torque everything somewhere on the site. (I'll find it and post it here when I have another minute) Just follow the bulletin then loosen the 4 nuts showing in the pic and bump the diff with a rubber mallet. Then measure the gap.

 

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww202/BigBoyinMS/DSC01133.jpg

How do know how far to bump it? I guess I'll try and find the instructions.

[BigBoyinMS]

How do know how far to bump it? I guess I'll try and find the instructions.

 

The bulletin just tells how to set up the rear before you put the wheel on. The shim check is something a Yamaha tech came up with. After you follow the TSB then fully loosen the 4 acorn nuts and just bump the diff a few times to make sure it isn't binding and is floating free. Then measure the gap if there is any.

Link to thread with TSB