New LOUD gear whine - opinions?

[BigBoyinMS]

I'm going to reference oil but I don't know yet if this has anything to do with the issue. I did an oil change about 900 miles ago and used Rotella 5w40 Synthetic. The light weight did concern me but most auto engines run 5w now and my Cummins actually gained 2.5 mpg using it.

About 500 miles ago I went on a 300 mile ride. During the last 50 miles of the ride I noticed that I wasn't hearing the normal gear whine; it sounded different. The new sound was with me for the last 100 miles until yesterday. I was just getting up to cruising speed (about 70-75 mph) when I at first thought an ambulance was coming around me. I quickly realized that it was a whine coming from the bike. It was suddenly louder and higher pitched that it had been. Loud enough that I heard it at that speed and over the radio. It seems to be in the tranny as the pitch changes as I shift.

I'm going to change oil again and either use Rotella Dino oil 15w40 or a 20w40/50 just to see if that helps.

I have also been planning to do a Moly60 lube on the drive train. I did the last lube (before I knew of Moly60) about 4k miles ago using H-D bearing grease.

 

So, any thoughts as to the new whine?

[BoomerCPO]

For me it has been difficult to ascertain just where that darn "whine" is coming from. I have run the scoot with the bags off and it sounds like the sound comes from the tranny. With the bags on the sound appears to come from the engine!

 

I have learned to live with the sound.....Using 10W40 Synthetic oil,Baron's 4-2-4 pipes, and the Ipod volume cranked up pretty much kills off the "whine".

 

Boomer.....who is still blowing Harleys off the road and hitting every Dairy Queen in sight.

Edited June 4, 2009 by BoomerCPO
darn spelling!

[cecdoo]

Seems to be hot topic lately, I used the Rotella Synth. for the first time in my bike this year 06 with 24K I definetly hear the whine alot more and it seems to get worse the hotter the engine gets. I am gonna switch back to dino after MD. I had the "I" basket put in last year it helped some, It will be interesting to hear what others have to say. Craig

[frogmaster]

Just reporting my facts and no opinions...

 

Last Fall bought 2008 RSV came with Yamalube in it and I have the CHIRP from Mileage 000001. 600 miles later replaced Oil & Filter with Shell Rotella-T 5w-40. Now from mileage 0000600 thru 0003750-ish I have the EXACT SAME CHIRP not worse not better.

 

Also changed the Final Drive Hub at 600 miles with Mobil-1 Syn 75-90. Again EXACT SAME CHIRP not worse or better.

 

Suspected conclusion the CHIRP is not Lube related...

 

Next question is CHIRP same as WHINE???

 

See ya at MD

[CMIKE]

I think I got the loudest whine...But I have never rode another RSV to compare.

I can hear the chirp...as I ease into her from a stop up through about 3rd gear...but the whine takes over to dominate the noise. I always thought the whine was coming from the rear end. At highway speeds it is dominate. When you are in hilly country, climbing the hill you hear the whine as you reach the top of the hill and head down the other side...it sounds like a 5 ton truck with the geartrain meshing in and out. You can hear the chirp on the 650 custom I got. I know what it sounds like and it does not bother me.

I put amsoil synthetic in the final drive...Not much difference. I tired dino valvoline for a couple of hundred miles and went to 90wt gear lube. Not much difference I did the TSB to align the final drive and seems everytime I do it...the sound changes some in pitch. I did it at 800 miles when I had to lube the drive pins and again at 5400 when I changed the tires. I actually thought maybe the Dunlop 404's were causing some of the noise. I could get the bike off center and hear the tire roar. Right now I am running yamaha lube dino in the final drive. Each time I change the final drive oil...it is black and nasty. I use Loctite 65% moly paste on my drive pins and all the splines. Availible at WW Grainger.

When I change the final drive on that 650custom...the oil is so clean it is like new. Maybe the moly is getting into the final drive from the rear drive shaft spline on the venture.

As I understand the drive shaft alignment can change with the way you ride the bike. In other words you can jerk and shatch it around to get the alignment to change.

I will probably carry it to the dealer this winter but do not want to be without my bike this summer so I am gonna live with it for now . They are aware I have some issues...and are ready to do what ever I want them to do...I even tried to record it with a voice recording device and got most of it but there is some wind noise in with it.

 

Bigboy you need to ride my bike to listen to my noise as well I need to ride yours to see if it is the same.

WE need to get together to get this done one day. This weekend we are headed to Ark for 3-4 days...so this weekend is out.

Let me know what you find out and maybe we can work together to resolve our issues.

[Sylvester]

Man, I feel left out!!! No chirp and no whine on my RSMV. I hear a little cam action at idle when the choke is out a bit. I use the Yamalube synthetic and whatever filter I can buy. 104,000 miles and loving the ride.

[KiteSquid]

Could someone with "the noise", that has changed the final drive gear oil to no avail, PLEASE lube their drive shaft splines with Honda Moly60 and report back if it corrected the noise????

 

 

I think that it was where 90% of the excess noise my bike was making came from, but regrettably I changed the final drive gear oil (That I fortified with some Honda Moly60) at the same time, so I can't be certain.

[BJB]

Kitesquid,

Just ordered my Moly60 today, and I leave for about a week trip or so. When i get back I will pull pumkin and grease splines (at BOTH ends right?). I will post my impressions here as to difference in the sound.

[BigBoyinMS]

Just reporting my facts and no opinions...

 

Last Fall bought 2008 RSV came with Yamalube in it and I have the CHIRP from Mileage 000001. 600 miles later replaced Oil & Filter with Shell Rotella-T 5w-40. Now from mileage 0000600 thru 0003750-ish I have the EXACT SAME CHIRP not worse not better.

 

Also changed the Final Drive Hub at 600 miles with Mobil-1 Syn 75-90. Again EXACT SAME CHIRP not worse or better.

 

Suspected conclusion the CHIRP is not Lube related...

 

Next question is CHIRP same as WHINE???

 

See ya at MD

 

The 'George Jetson' chirp is different the gear whine. Mine has just a bit of chirp but not enough that it bothers me. It is somehow related to the clutch basket as that is what Yamaha changes that sometimes quiets the noise. And no, the chirp doesn't seem to be much affected by lube but it does run in oil.

The gear whine comes from the straight cut gears in the tranny. It's a stronger type of gear but somewhat noisier than other styles. Since the tranny uses engine oil, the oil you use can change the whine. Mine was normal until a short time ago but now it's definitely different and louder.

[BigBoyinMS]

I think I got the loudest whine...But I have never rode another RSV to compare.

I can hear the chirp...as I ease into her from a stop up through about 3rd gear...but the whine takes over to dominate the noise. I always thought the whine was coming from the rear end. At highway speeds it is dominate. When you are in hilly country, climbing the hill you hear the whine as you reach the top of the hill and head down the other side...it sounds like a 5 ton truck with the geartrain meshing in and out. You can hear the chirp on the 650 custom I got. I know what it sounds like and it does not bother me.

I put amsoil synthetic in the final drive...Not much difference. I tired dino valvoline for a couple of hundred miles and went to 90wt gear lube. Not much difference I did the TSB to align the final drive and seems everytime I do it...the sound changes some in pitch. I did it at 800 miles when I had to lube the drive pins and again at 5400 when I changed the tires. I actually thought maybe the Dunlop 404's were causing some of the noise. I could get the bike off center and hear the tire roar. Right now I am running yamaha lube dino in the final drive. Each time I change the final drive oil...it is black and nasty. I use Loctite 65% moly paste on my drive pins and all the splines. Availible at WW Grainger.

When I change the final drive on that 650custom...the oil is so clean it is like new. Maybe the moly is getting into the final drive from the rear drive shaft spline on the venture.

As I understand the drive shaft alignment can change with the way you ride the bike. In other words you can jerk and shatch it around to get the alignment to change.

I will probably carry it to the dealer this winter but do not want to be without my bike this summer so I am gonna live with it for now . They are aware I have some issues...and are ready to do what ever I want them to do...I even tried to record it with a voice recording device and got most of it but there is some wind noise in with it.

 

Bigboy you need to ride my bike to listen to my noise as well I need to ride yours to see if it is the same.

WE need to get together to get this done one day. This weekend we are headed to Ark for 3-4 days...so this weekend is out.

Let me know what you find out and maybe we can work together to resolve our issues.

 

Yes, we DO need to do this. My wife mentioned wanting to go to Philadelphia sometime soon anyway.

What you're describing sounds a lot like what I'm starting to hear now. I did change oil this evening to 15w40 Rotella just to see if that helps. I'm sure hoping that's all it is. I plan on doing a Moly60 lube this weekend also to see if that does any good. I'm going to try the drive line shim fix that someone else posted sometime ago also.

By the way, what oil are you using?

[BigBoyinMS]

Man, I feel left out!!! No chirp and no whine on my RSMV. I hear a little cam action at idle when the choke is out a bit. I use the Yamalube synthetic and whatever filter I can buy. 104,000 miles and loving the ride.

 

Troublemaker! I'm gonna turn Tweety Bird loose an ya!

[CMIKE]

Yes, we DO need to do this. My wife mentioned wanting to go to Philadelphia sometime soon anyway.

What you're describing sounds a lot like what I'm starting to hear now. I did change oil this evening to 15w40 Rotella just to see if that helps. I'm sure hoping that's all it is. I plan on doing a Moly60 lube this weekend also to see if that does any good. I'm going to try the drive line shim fix that someone else posted sometime ago also.

By the way, what oil are you using?

 

Right now, I have Mobile 1 20-40? 20-50? (Not sure) Mobile 1 first time I tried it...not exactly sure of the weight I was using 20-50 Amsoil thought I would try the Mobile 1.

Final Drive...first change went with amsoil then tired a differnet amsoil (heavier)....then went to a valvaline 90 wt dino about 100 miles to see if that quite it down.. Now have a quart of Yamalube in it.

I will get back to you...when I get back from Ark. Be gone 3-4 days starting at 6aM.

We will meet up at my house, your house or on the Natchez trace somewhere. Ratliff Ferry.

Take care and see you soon.

[KiteSquid]

Each time I change the final drive oil...it is black and nasty. I use Loctite 65% moly paste on my drive pins and all the splines. Availible at WW Grainger.

When I change the final drive on that 650custom...the oil is so clean it is like new. Maybe the moly is getting into the final drive from the rear drive shaft spline on the venture.

 

It very well could. there is a path that the drive-shaft rear spline grease can flow into the final drive.

 

How much grease did you apply to your splines?

 

I apply with a paint bush and try to make sure I don't over-lubricate.

 

 

I also added about a pea sized amount of Honda Moly60 to the gears in my final drive, at the same time I lubed my splines and clutch hub pins with Honda Moly60 and most of my bikes noise is gone. Click HERE to read a thread about it.

[BigBoyinMS]

Well, I rode it to work this morning and took a long route so I could get on the interstate. I'm now thinking it's the final drive. The whine actually changes with speed, not with gear changes. I'm now thinking that the Harley bearing grease I used when I lubed everything months ago is finally wearing off. I just started with the Yammi's a year ago and never heard of Moly60 until after I did the lube. I'll be doing a moly job this weekend.

[Hotrod]

I had a 2000 Honda Shadow Spirit before I bought my Venture.Several on the Shadow

Riders Forum was talking about how good the 5W-40 Rotella T Synthetic was.I purchased

a gallon and put it in my Shadow.It went from a quiet bike to so loud I couldn't stand it.

The top end noise went from barely there,to sounding like a high pitched Singer sewing

machine.I couldn't take it.I went back to Mobil 1 20W-50 synthetic and noise went away.

I've used nothing but Mobil 1 since, and now in the Venture.

[KiteSquid]

I'll be doing a moly job this weekend.

 

PLEASE report your results with Honda Moly60 grease!!!!!!!!!!

 

Splines 3 places and the fingers of the "Clutch Hub" are were it should be used.

 

I added some to my Gear Lube in the final drive, but PLEASE don't untill you try your splines. It can be added to the Gear Lube later, but cant be taken out.

 

I would like to see if your noise is from the splines or the final drive.

[BigBoyinMS]

I actually added moly to the diff about 1000 miles ago. I didn't expect to notice any difference, and I haven't, but it will probably add to the longevity of the ring and pinion.

[KiteSquid]

I actually added moly to the diff about 1000 miles ago. I didn't expect to notice any difference, and I haven't, but it will probably add to the longevity of the ring and pinion.

 

GREAT, At least you did it at a separate time, unlike me!!!!!!!! I expect the same for my bike, more longevity!!!!

 

Please let us know what you find out with your drive shaft splines, splines between final drive and the clutch hub and pins on the clutch hub that go into the rear wheel.

[BigBoyinMS]

I wonder if someone could answer this for me. How much drive line backlash or slack do you have?

I had time to get it on the lift last night and I was looking it over and noticed that it seems to have more backlash than I think it should. While in gear I turned the tire till it stopped then turned it in the opposite rotation till it stopped. I measured almost 2 3/4" of rotation.

 

Has anyone else checked that or have your bike up where you could check it? I'm wondering what an average is.

 

I'll be tearing into it when I get off work and will know more then.

[Squeeze]

The Back Lash you measured is foremost Tranny Back Lash. The Amount depends on the Gear you selected. Sounds like a normal Amount.

[BigBoyinMS]

The Back Lash you measured is foremost Tranny Back Lash. The Amount depends on the Gear you selected. Sounds like a normal Amount.

 

Yes, I realized that it would be all the lash in the driveline combined from the tranny to the diff, just didn't expect that much. FYI, it was in 1st.

[BigBoyinMS]

Update with pics: Everything looked pretty good when I got it all apart except the pins were kind of of dry. I polished them up with some emery cloth and cleaned the holes with a homemade hone made of a piece of emery and a piece of wire. I also pulled the drive shaft from the diff and cleaned all of the old grease out then coated everything with Moly and put it all back together. While I had the wheel off I also lubed every bolt on the shock mounts since I have a groan every time I sit on the bike.

JerryK in Ohio had a post in Nov. of last year about a dealer that had started shimming the space between the driveshaft tube and diff. This was supposed to stop most of the noise. His bike had a gap of .020". I decided to check mine after I had torqued the axle bolt. I had a gap of .077"!! That's about the thickness of a dime and a nickel together. If I had tightened the 4 nuts I would have just pulled the right side swingarm around and everything would have been in a bind. I'm stalled until I can find something to cut a shim out of. The local parts stores have never even heard of sheets of shim stock. I did find that some street signs are .080" thick. Guess I'll head to the machine shop Monday.

 

I'll get a pic of the gap tomorrow.

 

My hone.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww202/BigBoyinMS/DSC01127.jpg

 

Lubed and ready to go together.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww202/BigBoyinMS/DSC01123.jpg

 

Looks pretty good.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww202/BigBoyinMS/DSC01132.jpg

 

Love my Kumho! 3000 miles on it.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww202/BigBoyinMS/DSC01116.jpg

Edited June 7, 2009 by BigBoyinMS

[Squeeze]

Did you turn the Axle while measuring the Gap between final Drive Casing and Swingarm Flange ??

 

Maybe your Axle is bent and you'll end up with almost no Gap when you turn it 180 Degrees.

 

A bent Axle is not as bad as it sounds, because the Axle will straighten out while you tighten it down and the Axle is not really "the Axle" where the Rim runs on.

[BigBoyinMS]

Did you turn the Axle while measuring the Gap between final Drive Casing and Swingarm Flange ??

 

Maybe your Axle is bent and you'll end up with almost no Gap when you turn it 180 Degrees.

 

A bent Axle is not as bad as it sounds, because the Axle will straighten out while you tighten it down and the Axle is not really "the Axle" where the Rim runs on.

 

I didn't but that will be my first job when I get to it this morning.

[BigBoyinMS]

If anyone is watching this I'm going to keep updating this thread till I'm done.

 

Thanks to Squeeze for mentioning checking the gap with the axle rotated. I guess I had gotten tunnel-vision by the time I got to that point and didn't even think.

I rotated and torqued the axle every 90 degrees and got the gap down to .038"-.039". Now I have to find a source for some .020" shim stock. I made a pattern from a piece of manila folder. I tried to measure and draw it first until I remembered the old fashioned way of making gaskets using a ballpeen hammer. Worked like a charm.

 

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww202/BigBoyinMS/DSC01155.jpg