think its the starter?? please help

[drizz]

i just bought my first venture. i love it got a real good price ....anyhow i get the bike home have it one day and go out the next morning and go to start the bike turns over once and i had forgot the choke so i let go of the start button set the choke and nuthin it shorts out whole bike goes dark let go of button and lights come back on hear selonid clicking read the forums traced the circuts got power every where up to selonoid jumped accross and nuthin again sounds like starter is whirring very quietly like not actuating any advise would be helpfull thanks

[wes0778]

What's the voltage at the battery before you hit the start button and then what is it while you are holding the start button in?

[GeorgeS]

Has this bike been parked, in storage a long time??

 

How many miles is on it.

 

Do you know how old the battery is ?

 

Your trouble could be a lot of things, with more information we can help pin it down.

[davecb]

Have the battery checked....

[drizz]

battery has 12.38 volts hit start button and drops to 8.43 and the bike basicly shorts out let go of start button and bike comes back to life and voltage on battery retuns to 11.98 and goes up from there back to 12.3 something. now i have checked all the fuses and traced most of the wiring no shorts on or rub throughs. the bike has 28,000 miles on it and i think it was sitting for awhile i dont think it is the battery i started there first and used charger on the battery it holds a solid charge i guess it could be a lot of things but i am leaning towards a short in a wire or its the starter. however i put direct power to the starter with the bike on and got nuthin i really think its the starter. i dont know i'm a diesel mech not a bike tech but i'm slowly learning. thanks for all the help

[93 venture]

Drops to 8.4 volts sounds like battery is shorting out or bad conections,could be the starter is shot but i would start with the battery and then check all the grounds and postive conections.have you tryed jumping it off of a car?

[SaltyDog]

I had the same symptoms a couple of weeks ago on my '83 venture. I had been riding the bike and when I stopped for fuel and tried to start the bike it turned over very slowly and then wouldn't do anything but click the starter solenoid.

 

I had a fully charged battery, large automobile size cables and I had rebuilt the starter last year (about 4 thousand miles ago) with new brushes, bearings and additional ground wires. I too suspected the battery (wet cell only 1 year old) and had a friend bring some jumper cables, no change. I then connected directly to the starter and still it wouldn't turn over.

 

My bike would also draw down the lights (dim) when trying to start it with the key. The starter was pulling alot of power, but not turning the engine over. I then pushed the bike and let out the clutch to make sure the engine wasn't locked up. All this happeded in a gas station parking lot. When all else had failed I got my trailer and dragged the bike home to my shop.

 

Knowing that the only thing left was the starter being bad, I tore it apart and found one of the motor brushes had worn down and was barely touching the commutator. I put in a older good set of brushes and reassembled the starter. I was very happy to see that the starter cranked the engine perfectly after the brush replacement.

 

The rebuild kit I used must have had a defective (soft) set of brushes. I went down to my local starter rebuild shop with one of the old brushes and got a pair that matched the Venture's so I will have a spare and I will check them again after the summers riding season.

 

Long story to get to the advice you were asking for... check and clean the starter.

[Neil86]

The 1st Gen is wired so the meter lights and headlight go out when you push in starter button.

[GeorgeS]

I think at this point, with many unknown's you should remove the starter. And open it up and check its condx.

 

However, as a general rule, the starters on these bikes do not fail, most of them last to well over 50,000 miles. ( but, anything is possible. ) Clean the commutor, and lubricate.

 

I would still suggest, Removeing the Grounded end of the Neg. Bat main Cable, at the Engine case, and Clean that Stud end. Dip in solder flux, heat with torch, then Resolder the Stud to end of cable.

 

The Start Switch has a second set of contacts, which " open's " and this cuts of the headlight during the start sequence. ( this is normal )

 

There is a Cable of 3 , #14 wires runs from Stator, to Voltage Regulator, there is a large Plastic, Plug enroute. Open this plug, Clean it, Inspect the male and female pins for Burn , and corrosion Damage. This is a high Failure Rate Item on these bikes.

 

Also find the Main 40 Amp fuse holder, open it, and clean the fuse element contacts.

 

Also, find the Plug " FROM " the Regulator Unit, has 2 reds, and 2 blacks going thru it, Also, Open this plug, clean the contacts, and inspect !!!!

 

Also, on the Main fuse block, ( 6 fuses ) find the Ing. Fuse ( 15 Amp ) Clean the prongs that hold fuse in place, Make sure tight fit to the fuse. Also, resolder the wires to each side of this fuse, ( THIS FUSE SUPPLIES ALL POWER TO THE FOLLOWING ITEMS )

1. TCI. 2. All 4 Ignition Coils, primary windings. 2. Fuel pump Relay, 3. Fuel pump 4. Pressure Sensor

--- Be sure this fuse, is in good condition

 

 

Also, the Red--- " RUN-STOP" Switch on right handle bar, open it up and clean and inspect the contacts !!! ALL CURRENT FLOW " FROM " the 15 amp Ignition fuse runs thru this switch. IF THIS SWITCH GOES TO A HIGH RESISTANCE , condition, it will DROP the Voltage to all the above items.

 

 

Also, Your Starter Solinoid, is highly suspect, These solinoids-- installed by Yamaha, ARE NOT, high quality items, they have been a High Failure Rate item .

The main contacts inside, them Burn Up, get highly carboned, and turn into RESITIVE HEATING ELEMENTS. This high Resistance in Series with the Main Red Cable to the Starter motor, WILL DROP THE VOLTAGE TO THE STARTER.

 

Also, Fwd, and Above the #2 Carb, ( left , fwd carb ) follow the vaccume line to the Pressure Sensor, ( Its there ) ( hard to see ) Remove the Rubber Boot that covers the 3 wire plug on this Item, MAKE SURE THE BOOT IS NOT FULL OF WATER AND CRUD. WHY?? IF, it is, this can cause a Voltage drop to the TCI. NOT GOOD !!

 

Ok, consider all these items a Witch Hunt-- These are all Known Trouble Spots on these bikes.

[drizz]

thanks for all the insight i am in the process of tracking this down thanks for all the help ill keep yall posted to how this goes

[drizz]

by the way my bike is an 83 1200 xvz and i love it hope i can get this worked out soon

[drizz]

new development think the engine is siezed up tried to clutch start the bike and the rear wheel will not turn at all tried 1st 2nd and 3rd gears. it makes no sense a friend of mine said it may be because it is shaft driven that it cant be started that way. im at a loss can an engine sieze by just trying to start a bike???? i dont know how do i check this

[GeorgeS]

Well, that would explaine why the starter is not cranking the engine.

 

Take the Center Cover Plate, off the left side of crankcase. There is a Big Nut on end of the CrankShaft there. Bike on Center stand, in Neutral, and Try to Rotate the Engine with a Socket on the Nut.

 

Maby good idea to pull out the plugs first.

 

Also, if you really think its siezed, I would drain the Oil into a VERY Clean container, and then Strain the oil thru Cloth, of some type.

We are looking for metal shaveings in the oil with this proceedure. :crying:

 

However, all hope is not lost, complete 1300 CC engines come up on E-Bay quite often, Much much cheaper, then rebuilding.

 

Question ??? Did you hear any wierd Noise's the last time you shut down the engine ????

[mm482]

Remove the spark plugs and then see if the engine will turn over. A cylinder may full of fuel or water.

 

Earl

[GeorgeS]

Remove the spark plugs and then see if the engine will turn over. A cylinder may full of fuel or water.

 

Earl

 

Agreed, Maby head gasket failure, and water in cylinder.

[drizz]

thanks for the tips im gonna check all of these first thing in th morning keep yall posted

[Russ]

I had a similar problem on my '86. turned out the starter was fried. New starter and now it's all good.

[drizz]

started to tear into bike and left front carb is full of fuel. indicating left front cyl is possibly full of fuel am taking out spark plugs and about to turn crank let ya know if it is. if so how do i proceed???? thanks

[Russ]

I'd say give the carbs a good cleaning and check for a stuck float?? I never been good with carbs and really am starting to get a distaste for 'em. thankfully we've got some folks here that have most likely run into that before and can point ya the right direction

[drizz]

well left front cyl full of gas got that taken care of engine not locked up. thank god!!!

now to troubleshoot the starting problem. wish me luck.

[RedRider]

Good Luck.

 

RR

[drizz]

got bike started but now i have a bigger problem. i think the motor has a bent rod or something to that effect it has a very loud tapping noise in the lower part of the engine:thumbdown:.i am so upset i mean it runs but it has this tapping and now i have to pull the engine what a bummer. thanks for all the help im sure im gonna need more help soon:fiddle:.

[Squeeze]

Take Compression Readings on all 4 Cylinders. If there's one drastic out of unison, pull the Engine and fit another running Motor.

If there's Con-Rod or a Valve bent or one of the main Bearings shot, it just isn't worth bothering anymore.

 

 

But i'd check the Oil Level before proceeding with Compression Check.

[frankd]

If the cylinder was full of gasoline, some of it drained down into the crankcase dilluting the engine oil. Change the oil. Then let's see what noises you still have. Of course, you may really have bent a connecting rod when you dumped the clutch when the motor was locked up but it's not likely.

 

Frank

[davecb]

Hydrostatic lock can play h__l with an engine. But it shouldn't do it trying to start it...