Charcoal canister

[fzr400sbk]

hello, im new to post here and am trying to figure out where the hose marked carb on the charcoal canister goes

as there is no fittin on the carb for this hose that i can see. The hose routing is marked

on a sticker on the tank and does say "to carb". The other two hoses are marked atmosphere and tank and they are hook up already. Just cant find the fitting for the hose that needs to run to the carb. I do have a 1983 VR and it doesn't have the canister so i cant look at to compare. Any help would be great. The bike im working on is a 1985 VR.

 

Thanks

Shawn

[Snaggletooth]

Hi Shawn.

 

I hope somebody else jumps in on this as you lost me on the charcoal canister. Are you talking about the canister on the CLASS suspension pump?

 

I ask that because you mentioned that you had an '83 that didn't have one so I thought maybe the '83 was a standard.

 

Mike

[fzr400sbk]

Sorry for the confusion. Your thinking about the desicant canister (air dryer) for the air suspension. The charcoal canister sits on the left side of the bike beside the engine mounted to the cross brace. Its for the emissions i believe.

[Snaggletooth]

Yeppers! That is where my head was at. I have an '84 so no charcoal on mine either.

 

Sorry to be of no help at all.

[86er]

I don't know, but it sounds like you have a Californicated bike there and you know how weird those people are out there! (Just ask Condor)

If so, I doubt that it needs to be hooked up.

 

[fzr400sbk]

Yea the reason i asked is because it is plugged off right now and the bike runs very rich, so rich that it at about half throttle it runs flat, no power. just kind of dies.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Shawn,

Welcome to the site, great to see ya' jumpin' right in there and posting! Now, about that running rich problem! Plugging in that charcoal canister is not going to do a thing to solve your problem. All that charcoal canister does is collect vapors from the gas tank and returns them to the engine so they will be burned up. It's a California thing! now, lets take a look at what the REAL problem is with your bike. I am going to list some links below so you can read thru the thread, check out the parts, do the adjustments/repairs and you should be good to go.

The three areas that every VR owner should address in relation to Carbs. is:

1) Idle mixture screws.

2) Carb. Diaphragms

3) Carb. Sync.

 

To view, work on, or adjust any of these items, you will need to remove both side covers (by removing the false tank cover first), and the lower fairing legs. (which means the radiator side covers must come off, as well as the lower cowling.)

1) I have attached a pic below with the location of the Idle mixture screw circled in red. Before I do this adjustment, I shoot a little WD40 in the hole. By the way, all of these adjustments are done with the bike OFF unless I say other wise.

You will do this to all four carbs. the same way and to the same setting. (keeping it simple) Take a small flat blade screwdriver and insert into the hole circled in red, rotate the screwdriver until you find the slot, very gently turn the screw clockwise until it bottoms out. (*WARNING* YOU ARE SEATING A NEEDLE INTO A SEAT, IF YOU CRANK THE NEEDLE TO HARD INTO THE SEAT, YOU WILL DAMAGE THE SEAT AND HAVE TO REPLACE THE CARB. BODY!) With that being said, I use two fingers and lightly seat the needle. Once this is done, turn the screw counterclockwise 2 1/2 turns. Do this to each Carb. This is a really good place to start and you may find that the screws are all over the place. If you have a decent digital tach. you can "fine tune" each screw for max rpm with the motor running at idle. This is a very tedious procedure and the 21/2 turns deal will get you pretty close.

 

2) Here is the link to my write-up of the replacement of the Carb. Diaphragms with pics, you can use this to inspect the Diaphragms as well.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/sh...ad.php?t=32052

 

 

When you destroy the cheap phillips head screws trying to get them out to inspect the Carb. Diaphragms you may want to check this link:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/classifi...uct/1643/cat/6

 

3) Here is the link to my write-up of a Carb. Sync. using the Morgan Carbtune tool. You will use the same procedure no matter what type of Manometer you use.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/sh...ad.php?t=35274

 

And there you have it! you are now an expert on VR Carbs! There is one other mod that can be done to "lean out" the mixture during crusing called the 5bikes needle mod, when you check out the other items above and get them up to snuff, PM me and I will walk you thru the mod. If you have questions, need equipment or parts, just ask!

Good luck on your project, you've got some work to do!

Earl

[fzr400sbk]

Thanks for all the info. This is a great site with great people. I'll keep you posted on what i find.

 

Shawn

[fzr400sbk]

Ok, I got it running pretty good now. I ended up turning the air screws out from near bottom to 4 turns out. This seems to be where it likes it. My 83 is 4 1/2 turns out, the way it was when i bought it. Thanks for the help.

 

shawn

[Condor]

hello, im new to post here and am trying to figure out where the hose marked carb on the charcoal canister goes

as there is no fittin on the carb for this hose that i can see. The hose routing is marked

on a sticker on the tank and does say "to carb". The other two hoses are marked atmosphere and tank and they are hook up already. Just cant find the fitting for the hose that needs to run to the carb. I do have a 1983 VR and it doesn't have the canister so i cant look at to compare. Any help would be great. The bike im working on is a 1985 VR.

 

Thanks

Shawn

 

I think??

That maybe the hose for your vacuum advance, and on the '83 it comes off the #2 carb. The bib is located above the butter fly between #2 and #4. The 83's are the only 'pre-butterfly/throttle body' advance, and therefore the booster and the TCI are set up differently then the later models which are manafold vacuum.

[CrazyHorse]

Man I'm lost on this one. Was the cannister just disconnected? Where are the air screws? Do you mean the pilot mixture screws? Here are some pictures where the Cannister hooks to the #2 Carburator. The screwdriver shows the tube to the carb from the cannister. You sure you were rich maybe you were lean with an air leak into the #2 carb from the cannister disconnected. 4 1/2 turns of the pilot mixture seems like alot.

Edited May 23, 2009 by CrazyHorse

[fzr400sbk]

Yea pilot mixture is what i adjusted, sorry for the confusion. I agree it does seem like a lot but the bike was extremely rich before this going by the plugs (wet with gas not oil and black). They are now a brown color.

 

What has made this a pain is the bike was somewhat apart and im just putting the peices together as i go. The charcoal canister "to carb" hose was disconnected and plugged. I left it plugged and went to my 83 for a baseline adjustment on the pilot mixture screws and went with that. I know that 83 seems a bit much at 4 1/2 turns out but it's been that way for 40,000 miles and the plugs are a nice light brown.

 

Now, what i was confused with was i thought the pilot air screws where the air screws to change the mixture at idle but changing the adjustments has made a huge difference all the way through the revs not just at idle. Calling it a pilot air tells me it should just change the mixture at idle. Correct me if im wrong on that.

 

As far as the canister hose being disconnected, there is no nipple for the hose to connect to anywhere on the carbs.

 

Again thanks for all the help you guys have passed on to me for this.

shawn

Edited May 24, 2009 by fzr400sbk

[Neil86]

I seem to recall seeing diagrams showing that the charcoal cannister (CA spec) bikes had a solenoid valve that permitted (I think) purging the cannister with fresh air to the carb. I'd be a little concerned since part of the system is capped...that your fuel tank has a path to vent properly.

[CrazyHorse]

Yea pilot mixture is what i adjusted, sorry for the confusion. I agree it does seem like a lot but the bike was extremely rich before this going by the plugs (wet with gas not oil and black). They are now a brown color.

 

What has made this a pain is the bike was somewhat apart and im just putting the peices together as i go. The charcoal canister "to carb" hose was disconnected and plugged. I left it plugged and went to my 83 for a baseline adjustment on the pilot mixture screws and went with that. I know that 83 seems a bit much at 4 1/2 turns out but it's been that way for 40,000 miles and the plugs are a nice light brown.

 

Now, what i was confused with was i thought the pilot air screws where the air screws to change the mixture at idle but changing the adjustments has made a huge difference all the way through the revs not just at idle. Calling it a pilot air tells me it should just change the mixture at idle. Correct me if im wrong on that.

 

As far as the canister hose being disconnected, there is no nipple for the hose to connect to anywhere on the carbs.

 

Again thanks for all the help you guys have passed on to me for this.

shawn

 

 

The nipple is below #2 carb between the #2 and #1 carbs as in my picture above. Now if thats not there then someone has put a different set of non-California carbs on there. Squeeze knows alot about what percentage of the different parts of the carb contibute to the fuel delivery. The pilot mainly does idle mixture and little more than that. Still 4 1/2 turns seems like alot unless you have some sort of air leak somewhere. Where's Squeeze when you need him?

[Squeeze]

The nipple is below #2 carb between the #2 and #1 carbs as in my picture above. Now if thats not there then someone has put a different set of non-California carbs on there. Squeeze knows alot about what percentage of the different parts of the carb contibute to the fuel delivery. The pilot mainly does idle mixture and little more than that. Still 4 1/2 turns seems like alot unless you have some sort of air leak somewhere. Where's Squeeze when you need him?

 

You're right. If there's no Connector for the CA-Canister, it should be a non CA-Carb Set.

 

4.5 Turns out from the bottom is not a good Thing. The complete Range for adjusting Purpose is around 5 Turns and because of the Design of the Jet(here the Tip of the Mixture Adjustment Screw) there's almost no Difference anymore at the upper End of the Range. It's like "almost everything" at 4.5 Turns and "everything" at 5 Turns.

 

You want to keep the Adjustment up to 3.5 Turns. Above that it more or less dump everything minus some Percent. If your Setting needs more than 4 Turns on the Mixture Screw, there's something wrong. Chasing Vacuum Leaks is the first Step, then Diaphragm on the Sliders, Pilot Air Jets in the Carb Throat, Pilot Fuel Jets inside the Floater Bowls for clogging and basically correct Dimension.

 

Sure the Settings of the Air Mixture Screw have Influence on the Mixture of complete RpM Range from Idle to full open Throttle. That's because the Settings of the individual Sub-Systems of the Carbs add up through the RpM Range. The Idle System(Air Mixture Screw) is the only System in work from 1000 to 1500 RpM. From 1500 to 2800 RpM the Pilot Fuel Jets add up their share, from 2500 the up to 5000 RpM the Needle Jet/Jet Combination Needle take over a Lot of Work, above 4500 RpM, the Main Jet gets involved.

 

Of Course when you have a Problem on the upper End, the Influence of the Idle System is diminished versus all the other Sub-Systems, but if there is too much Air or too much Fuel coming from the Idle System, the A/F Ratio is out of whack.

 

Those are the Basics, but since there are some more Subsystems in the Carbs and all they all serve their Purpose.

 

I think, after a thorough check for Vacuum Leaks on the Mainfolds, a complete Cleaning and checking of the Carbs is in Order. Of course this means ripping the Carbs completely apart, cleaning everything and check all Jets for their Size also.

[fzr400sbk]

Thanks squeeze for the good info. I have been through the carbs completely and are clean. I didn't check the jets for size numbers. Next up like you say is vacum leaks. The diaphrams are in good shape.

 

shawn

[CrazyHorse]

He's a good man that Squeeze. Are your carbs properly seated in thier boots? Is the Airbox properly attached to the carbs ? The airbox lid locked down? etc.

[Neil86]

Another common issue...is if the YICS chambers are still attached....are they leaking...they tend to develop leaks on seams that appear and disappear as the chambers flex with engine vibration.

[Squeeze]

I believe, on the '85 isn't a YICS System anymore.

 

If you have been in the Carbs, probably you interchanged the PAJ#1 and PAJ#2 on some or all Carbs. The PAJ#2 is behind the Slider Diaphragm and should be 160 to 170 in Size. The PAJ#1 is in the Carb Throat and is much smaller, 75 to 90 i think. Better to check the Shop Manual for exact Sizes of these. No I've been there, done that ...