Ethanol Fuel

[GeorgeS]

OK, its official now, Business Week, mag. has finally said the the Ethenol Industry is an economic bust. And the stuff actually lowers MPG on most vehicals.

 

Nothing but a political shell game !!! ( but we all knew that ) :stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot::doh::doh:

 

And, they added that the stuff is damaging a lot of engines !!!:witch_brew:

[6pak]

Yeah, but if it's cheaper to produce, I'll bet we wont see any decrease in production or consumption.

[juggler]

Yeah, but if it's cheaper to produce, I'll bet we wont see any decrease in production or consumption.

 

Well when you take away the subsidies ethanol is far more expensive to produce.

 

I've written a few articles on ethanol and it's impact on our economy, environment and food supply/costs.

 

http://www.wilgeno.com/index.cfm/2008/9/14/The-Lie-Behind-Ethanol-Fuel

 

http://www.wilgeno.com/index.cfm/2008/7/6/Who-gets-energy-subsidies

 

http://www.wilgeno.com/index.cfm/2008/5/11/What-is-Causing-High-Prices-for-Gas-and-Food

 

http://www.wilgeno.com/index.cfm/2008/7/5/Biofuels-behind-food-price-hikes-leaked-World-Bank-report

[GeorgeS]

More then 1 gallon of crude oil, is consumed to to produce 1 gallon of the stuff.

I think its close to 2 gallons of crude per gallon of ethenol produced.

 

And then you burn more of it to go a mile, then plain gasoline.

 

And you damage your engine.

 

And good crop land that could be used to produce human food is wasted growing the corn, for the ethenol

 

And, Corn for cattle and hogs is now in shortage, which drive's up the cost of meat.

 

Now haveing said all this, Brazil makes it work, because of its a tropical climate, and they can grow sugar cane, to make the stuff. Lots more tonnage per acre from sugar cane then from corn.

[juggler]

OK, its official now, Business Week, mag. has finally said the the Ethenol Industry is an economic bust. And the stuff actually lowers MPG on most vehicals.

 

Nothing but a political shell game !!! ( but we all knew that ) :stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot::doh::doh:

 

And, they added that the stuff is damaging a lot of engines !!!:witch_brew:

 

BTW: here is the business week article.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/may2009/bw20090514_058678.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_dialogue+with+readers

[RedRider]

However, the voting (or caucusing) in the Iowa primaries is dominated by farmers. Do you think this has anything to do with the ethanol subsidies?

 

RR

[MiCarl]

However, the voting (or caucusing) in the Iowa primaries is dominated by farmers. Do you think this has anything to do with the ethanol subsidies?

 

RR

 

You've got the farm lobby on the right and the oil/drilling is evil lobby on the left. Result: we'll be saddled with this for a very long time.

[Condor]

OK, its official now, Business Week, mag. has finally said the the Ethenol Industry is an economic bust. And the stuff actually lowers MPG on most vehicals.

 

Nothing but a political shell game !!! ( but we all knew that ) :stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot::doh::doh:

 

And, they added that the stuff is damaging a lot of engines !!!:witch_brew:

 

And I read in this mornings enews that one local company is applying for bankruptcy protection. Probably going to ask for some sort of economic $timulU$ bailout before actually filing. That way they can live off the cuff on our money. I think this whole thing will end up as bad as the farm bank when the feds payed farmers not to grow a crop..... So much for 'green' technology...

I wonder what ever happened to Algy Oil??

[juggler]

And I read in this mornings enews that one local company is applying for bankruptcy protection. Probably going to ask for some sort of economic $timulU$ bailout before actually filing. That way they can live off the cuff on our money. I think this whole thing will end up as bad as the farm bank when the feds payed farmers not to grow a crop..... So much for 'green' technology...

 

I wonder what ever happened to Algy Oil??

 

Alge oil and other oil made from various vegetable and plastics are only capable of offsetting a small amount of the oil we use. As long as a company can profitably produce these types of oil I say go for it. I know a guy whose company is researching building a plastic to oil conversion refinery that takes non-recyclable plastic and breaks it back down into oil. Remember that petroleum is used to make plastic and many many other non-fuel products that we use everyday. There is nothing we can use to just replace petroleum based products. So the issue of drilling for oil or not is really silly since we need it even if we all walked.

 

As far as various lobbyist groups go they are a non-issue. Some are declared "evil" by the news media when the lobbying group does not agree with the news media.

 

Lobbying is part of our Representative Government process. It gets is name from the early days when politicians stayed in hotels in Washington DC while they were in town for the limited amount of time the Congress or Senate were in session and people would come to the hotel lobbies to wait for the Congressman or Senator and try to persuade them on an issue or vote. Today's lobbyists are a modern more organized form of that. If your in favor of Gun Rights and support the NRA your paying a lobbying group to represent your views to your Congressman ans Senators. The same is true for you old bikers that are members of the AARP. That is how you get your voice heard.

 

Since our Government has decided to become heavily involved in regulating so many businesses, some companies have hired lobbyists to help protect their interests. There is nothing wrong with this and long as everything is up front and on the table. To eliminate lobbying would be eliminating the rights of everyone to petition their Government.

 

Like it or not this is our Government and how it works. Just like a sausage factory, many don't want to see what happens inside. But when no one looks inside you get bad sausage. It is our job to not only look into Government but be active in Government. Write to those that represent you join groups that have the means to lobby for your views and if you can run for office yourself.

 

If only this was taught in Civics class today.

[Condor]

Alge oil and other oil made from various vegetable and plastics are only capable of offsetting a small amount of the oil we use. .

 

Thanks for the input. The reason I mentiioned Algy Oil is that I'd heard the yield amounts were way beyond an acre of corn used to produce Ethanol. But.... I could have been wrong so I did a search and found this. Click on the title...I can't get rid of the frame... Grrr!!

 

[ame=http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=18989607]ALGAE[/ame]

[slick97spirit]

Thanks for the input. The reason I mentiioned Algy Oil is that I'd heard the yield amounts were way beyond an acre of corn used to produce Ethanol. But.... I could have been wrong so I did a search and found this. Click on the title...I can't get rid of the frame... Grrr!!

 

ALGAE

 

Well that seems to make a lot of sense........therefore, I doubt if they'll ever do it!!

[a1bummer]

I really wish there wasn't so much misinformation being thrown around about ethanol. I won't claim to know everything about it, but there's a lot of potential for the stuff. It's what most people used before gasoline in the old days. Engines are being made to be compatible with this stuff that produce more power and get better mileage. It can be made from a lot more things besides just corn.

[GeorgeS]

Well its really quite simple. You have to burn Oil, to raise the corn.

 

You have to burn oil to haul the corn to the Ethenol plant.

 

You have to burn oil to process the corn into Ethenol.

 

Now you have to Truck the Stuff to the place where its mixed with gasoline.

( It can't be shipped thru a pipe line )

 

OK, now its in your car, and give's on average 15 percent less miles per gallon.

 

So now in effect you make 15 percent more polution from the car its burning in PLUS you Burned about 2 gallons of Crude Oil, ( which made polution ) to produce one gallon of ethenol.

 

So, how are we reduceing pollution, by makeing and useing the stuff ???

 

Its total Insanity !!!

 

It only makes sence, if there is no other source of crude oil !!! At least thats the way I see it.

[ToRide1]

There was some talk of someone that was testing fuel for ethanol content from around the country and they found that some of the gas being sold had 20% to 30% ethanol now this was early last year, the website was pulled or shut down.

[juggler]

There was some talk of someone that was testing fuel for ethanol content from around the country and they found that some of the gas being sold had 20% to 30% ethanol now this was early last year, the website was pulled or shut down.

 

The actual amount of ethanol can vary and is allowed to vary by law. E85 can have up to 85% ethanol. I am not sure what the minimum amount is, but I have found a few places suggesting that it can be as low as 70%.

 

Maybe that person was trying to find out if places selling E85 were actually selling something far less than the legal definition?

 

Now for a general PSA:

We must get rid of this notion that we as mere humans are so great and powerful that we can permanently and irreversibly alter or destroy the Earth. We are only humans and we do not posses such great power. We are fooling ourselves if we actually think E10 or E85 is going to "save" the Earth as if Earth needed saving in the first place.

 

Back in the 70's I was being told of the coming Ice Age and all the problems that would cause and how we as humans were the cause and only humans could stop it by giving up various technological conveniences. Cars and gasoline were first on the list of things that had to go. Everything was about cutting out fossil fuels and going with solar and wind.

 

Well, it's 30 years later and the Earth still hasn't come to a freezing end, but we have Global Warming to thank for that. Yeah right. Did we as humans conserve so much that we reversed the cooling cycle? No we did not even conserve yet we are still warmed by the heat of the Sun. Now I am told Global Warming will be the end of the Earth and it's an amazing coincidence that the exact same solutions offered for preventing the ice age that never came are the exact same solutions to end Global Warming that never was.

 

Folks I am here to tell you that the great big ball of fire in the sky is the source of our heating and cooling for as the Sun goes so does the earth and all of the other planets in orbit. This is why those people that have been studying the Mars climate noticed that Mars also warmed a bit during the same period Earth warmed. Imagine that. Our cars exhaust caused even Mars to warm.

 

Of course the only sane explanation is that the Sun's heat output varies (which it does) and thus we experience more or less heat on Earth. Any other explanation is really designed to either control your lives r to transfer money from your wallet to someone else or both.

[GeorgeS]

I'm NOT against Reduceing Polution. All I'm saying is the Corn Ethonal is not the way to do it.

 

Now if Calif is requiring you to use the stuff there, YES, there might be less polution in Calif. !!! Thats True !!

 

But--- There is NOW a lot More Polution in Iowa, Minnesota, Wis. Ill, and Indianna where the Corn is Grown, and the Ethenol Plants are located !!!

 

OH, and less food produced, in the U.S. means a lot more has to be trucked up from Mexico, and those trucks are burning !! Guess what ?? produceing polution.

[CrazyHorse]

They ram it down our throat here in Illinois. I live in farm country west of Chicago corporations/farmers get large subsidies for it.

[a1bummer]

More then 1 gallon of crude oil, is consumed to to produce 1 gallon of the stuff.

I think its close to 2 gallons of crude per gallon of ethenol produced.

 

And then you burn more of it to go a mile, then plain gasoline.

 

And you damage your engine.

 

And good crop land that could be used to produce human food is wasted growing the corn, for the ethenol

 

And, Corn for cattle and hogs is now in shortage, which drive's up the cost of meat.

 

Now haveing said all this, Brazil makes it work, because of its a tropical climate, and they can grow sugar cane, to make the stuff. Lots more tonnage per acre from sugar cane then from corn.

 

Dosen't have to be this way. When people say these things, you have to take them with a grain of salt. I'm not educated enough in the area to just say all that stuff is nonsence or all true. It dosen't help that the media has exaggerated so much in one way or another so much. Or the fact that there are so many greedy people who just want to line their pockets and don't give a hoot about the greater good. Ethanol may not be the "End all that beats all", but it certainly hasn't gotten the proper attention we need to give it.

[GeorgeS]

OK, we Import 2 gallons of Oil-- To make the equivalent of .85 gallons of Gas !!

 

And Create a whole bunch of polution to make the Stuff.

 

Thats the bottom line -- We could disscuss it till the cows come home, but nothing will change. ( except the cows won't have as much corn to eat )

[Squeeze]

Or you could ask somebody else to grow your Plants ....

 

Some Guys in Malaysia will gladly turn down some Acres of Rain Forrest to grow your Weed, uhh sorry Corn ...

[Snarley Bill]

ethanol sucks. it's the biggest get rich quick scheme going. it's about time people get there head out of their okole's before this country is totally brought to it's knees. it is on the brink right now. lets just go ahead and finish it off. nuff said. snarley bill ps. how low do we have to go before people see the light.

[Grey beard]

That scientist said if they took 10% of New Mexico to make an algae field, it would supply all America's oil needs. Wonder why we can't take ALL of Washington DC and make an algae field of it. think how much $$ that would save us!