Looking for some advice and input...

[ActionJax]

Well, here I go again.

 

I had so much fun fixing my brake issue...that now I'd like to tackle my rough starting problem.

 

My bike is an 83'. She's got 60,000+ miles on her, but she's been pretty well taken care of. I'm the 3rd owner.

 

My problem is, she's a pistle to get started cold! I mean I've actually had to start using my car to jump her. Now, she has a new battery as of the fall of 2008. I keep it on a trickle charge when I'm not riding.

 

But she just doesn't seem to want to start any more. Again, last fall I put in new plugs and wires.

 

I was thinking that maybe I need a carb job or something. I've run seafoam through her for the past couple of fillups. Still she starts rough.

 

I can't seem to work out when to choke her and when not to. If I give her a lot of choke she won't start at all. In the middle, sometimes she'll start. Less choke, she sometimes starts easier. Mostly it seems to start when I apply full choke, try to start, and fail, then switch to less choke and try again. But again, I need to use the car to jump it.

 

All the connecting on the battery terminal seem to be clean. I check the connection at the starter. That looks good too. Oh, and when it does start, is seems to be putting out volts with the stater. Around 16 or so by the dash board meter.

 

Once I've got her running and she warms up she does pretty well. Good exceleration. Plenty of power. Idles well. Maybe a little rough here and there. I mean I know she could be better...but what do I do?

 

Should I mod the battery cables? Rebuild the carbs? Get a new tune up? Take her to a shop? I don't know.

 

Looking for advice in Ohio.

 

Thanks

[GaryZ]

My 1985 VR does the same thing. I recently read something about carb idle circuits getting gummed up and causing these kinds of probs. The idle circuit is supposed to be very small fuel paths that can slowly clog like arteries.

 

I plan on soaking and cleaning my carbs to within an inch of their lives . . .

[bongobobny]

Very remote possibility, give it a new air filter! I'm going with carbs, though...

[Guest Swifty]

I haven't heard of any of these bikes needing much more than 1/4 choke on cold starting.

[Marcarl]

These babies are known to be tempermental to start. Some start best one way and others are completely different and then let them sit for the winter and they take on a whole new character. When cold though,, full choke,crank once or twice, then half choke and she should fire, then and only then do you touch the trottle. Maybe that will help.

I had problems with 2 of my carbs last year,, it ran sooooo bad at idle that I had to keep it running out of the idle circuit or it would stall,, maybe even 3 carbs,,, it was bad,, but I had no time to take it all apart and do a proper carb job,,, weather was good and it was time to ride. Soo when I came home,, 10:30pm, the covers came off, the air box came off, the diaphrams wear removed and I went ot work with a can of carb cleaner. Every little hole I could find was filled and refilled and blasted through with carb cleaner,, then I stuffed plastic bags in all the holes and ports and went to bed. Next evening I did the same thing, but then I also blew things out with a little air, about 40 lbs presure,, and I was carefull,, then some more carb cleaner,,, then the diaphrams went back on and I fired it up,,, it never started or ran so good as long as I've had it. Maybe something you could try.

Carl

[ActionJax]

Carl,

 

Sounds like a reasonable idea. At least a very good place to start. Although I've never taken apart any of that area apart before. How far down do I need to take it? Do you happen to have any pics to help me through?

 

And why/how did you put the plastic bags on?

 

Thanks for the help.

[ActionJax]

I keep hearing about these "diaphrams?" What am I exactly looking at? What and where are those? And how hard are they to remove?

 

I know, a lot of questions, but I'm not THAT mechanically inclined...but I like to do this stuff myself and save money. LOL

[Marcarl]

Carl,

 

Sounds like a reasonable idea. At least a very good place to start. Although I've never taken apart any of that area apart before. How far down do I need to take it? Do you happen to have any pics to help me through?

 

And why/how did you put the plastic bags on?

 

Thanks for the help.

Plastic bags are there to slow the evaporation of the cleaner so it works longer. The air box comes off kind of easy, take off the top, remove air filter, loosen all the clamps at the carbs and lift it away, this also takes apart the PVC hose and that will be the PITA when you go to reinstall the air box,, but tooo bad, it's the only way to properly get at the carbs for injecting the cleaner.

How to remove the diaphrams: there are 2 articles in the tech section showing how to do this,, keep an eye on the small rubber o-ring at the bottom of the cover,,, you'll need those when you go to put things back together.

Hope this helps.

If you need more help MD is June 06 and I'll be there with a large hammer. lol

[Dano]

and I'll be there with a large hammer. lol

 

 

Sounds like Carl is bringing his 2nd gen tool set. At least it's easy to pack! lol

[skydoc_17]

Hey Jack,

I think you are looking in the right place as far as hard starting goes. The three areas that every VR owner should address in relation to Carbs. is:

1) Idle mixture screws.

2) Carb. Diaphragms

3) Carb. Sync.

 

To view, work on, or adjust any of these items, you will need to remove both side covers (by removing the false tank cover first), and the lower fairing legs. (which means the radiator side covers must come off, as well as the lower cowling.)

1) I have attached a pic below with the location of the Idle mixture screw circled in red. Before I do this adjustment, I shoot a little WD40 in the hole. By the way, all of these adjustments are done with the bike OFF unless I say other wise.

You will do this to all four carbs. the same way and to the same setting. (keeping it simple) Take a small flat blade screwdriver and insert into the hole circled in red, rotate the screwdriver until you find the slot, very gently turn the screw clockwise until it bottoms out. (*WARNING* YOU ARE SEATING A NEEDLE INTO A SEAT, IF YOU CRANK THE NEEDLE TO HARD INTO THE SEAT, YOU WILL DAMAGE THE SEAT AND HAVE TO REPLACE THE CARB. BODY!) With that being said, I use two fingers and lightly seat the needle. Once this is done, turn the screw counterclockwise 2 1/2 turns. Do this to each Carb. This is a really good place to start and you may find that the screws are all over the place. If you have a decent digital tach. you can "fine tune" each screw for max rpm with the motor running at idle. This is a very tedious procedure and the 21/2 turns deal will get you pretty close.

 

2) Here is the link to my write-up of the replacement of the Carb. Diaphragms with pics, you can use this to inspect the Diaphragms as well.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32052

 

 

When you destroy the cheap phillips head screws trying to get them out to inspect the Carb. Diaphragms you may want to check this link:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1643/cat/6

 

3) Here is the link to my write-up of a Carb. Sync. using the Morgan Carbtune tool. You will use the same procedure no matter what type of Manometer you use.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35274

 

And there you have it! you are now an expert on VR Carbs!

If these three items don't clear up your hard starting then you have a much more detailed problem such as Carb. rebuild, Starter replacement, TCI or coil problem. Either way, taking care of these three items will make you bike run 1000% better.

Questions, Places to pick up equipment, parts, just ask,

Earl

[Yammer Dan]

SEA-FOAM!!

 

These things seem to thrive on it!!

[Venturous Randy]

Very good suggestions so far. One simple one is the last two Yamahas I have had did NOT like ANY throttle when being started, either hot or cold.

When you take the airbox off and look down on the carbs, move the choke lever and make sure the enrichment levers are moving on all carbs and about the same. I think you will see what I am talking about once you get the airbox off.

RandyA

[ctraylor]

I had the same problem with mine and the choker cable was unhooked on the carbs. Make sure the choker cable is working. It may not be choking the bike and it will be very hard to start cold if not.

[Squidley]

Jack,

I dont know where in Ohio you are but if you can make it to maintenance day we could take a peek at the bike and get a better understanding of whats going on. If your not that far into Ohio I could shoot down on a weekend and see what we can come up with.

[Condor]

The carbs on my '83 are fine, but she's always been cantankerous when starting cold. Put the choke full on and you'll kill a poor battery before it'll fire. The next time you try starting cold put the choke on full, and then while turning it over slowly reduce the choke. It should fire about half way off. Once it fires increase the choke quickly to full to keep 'er running. The R's will slowly build as she warms up. Another approach is only give her a small amount of choke to begin with, and then when she kicks add choke at warp speed. There are several others on this board who have to use the same start proceedure with their '83's.

[ActionJax]

WoW! When you guys help out your REALLY help out! Thanks so much for all the great advice. I'll start working on some of them this weekend.

 

And Squidley, I'd love to attend. When and where though? I live in Akron BTW. Would welcome any help.

 

BIG Thanks!

[Squidley]

And Squidley, I'd love to attend. When and where though? I live in Akron BTW. Would welcome any help.

 

BIG Thanks!

 

 

Jack,

Maintenance Day is held at Freebirds house on June 6th in Oberlin Ohio, here is a thread about it

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35176&highlight=Maintenance

Your only 60 miles away and it's the most fun you'll have with your clothes on

[Black Owl]

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/eng/look%20out.gif http://smilies.sofrayt.com/eng/itching.gif What the ......

it's the most fun you'll have with your clothes on

 

When did Freebird change the rules..... http://smilies.sofrayt.com/eng/laughing5.gif

[funrider]

I was having kinda the same problem, What I did was to drain the carbs out the drain hoses, got a spray can of carb cleaner and sprayed back through the drain hoses until it came out the over flow tubs and then shut of the drain screws and let it set for about 20 min. drained the carbs and ran the fuel punp to flush gas back through. Seemed to help a bunch. Also found that I had one cylindar that wasn't firing, checked with a timing light and found no spark. I had put new plugs in about 4000 miles ago and one of them was bad. maybe check and replace the plugs.

[Yammer Dan]

Jack,

 

Maintenance Day is held at Freebirds house on June 6th in Oberlin Ohio, here is a thread about it

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35176&highlight=Maintenance

 

Your only 60 miles away and it's the most fun you'll have with your clothes on

 

That ought to cut down on attendance.:rotfl:

[ActionJax]

I put in my RSVP for MD day at Freebirds. Looking forward to this. Can't wait to meet everyone...and maybe get some problems fixed on my bike. So what's the standard items I should bring? Like what tools? Oil, filters, beer?? LOL

 

Freebird, you need me to bring any additional food, supplies?

[Freebird]

All you need to bring is what you will use on your bike. Oil, filters, etc. Also, I may have a little beer on hand but I really don't supply the beer so if you want any, feel free to bring it. Just a note for all though and most already know this....there is not a LOT of drinking that goes on during these things. We make try to take a ride later in the day and drinking and riding just don't seem to go hand in hand.

[GeorgeS]

Consider the possibility, of " low Voltage " to the TCI, and Ignition Coils---

 

Places to check, for High Resistance Connections, in the " Ignition " Circuit ---

 

1. High Resistance, connection, ( ie: excess resistance ) across the Main 40 Amp fuse connections. caused by loose screws, or corroded " fuse element contacts "

 

2. Excess Resistance Across the Main Ignition Switch On-Off Contacts.

 

3. Excess Resistance Across the " 15 AMP Ignition Fuse " Prongs, ( clean prongs, and check for good contact to the fuse element ) Consider replaceing that fuse with a New " In-Line " Fuse holder.

 

4. The " Red Run-Stop " switch on right handlebar-- All current flow to the Ignition System, and Ignition Coils Flows Thru this switch!!!!!

ANY EXCESS RESISTANCE ACROSS CONTACTS OF THIS SWITCH, WILL LOWER THE VOLTAGE TO THE ENTIRE IGNITION SYSTEM !!!!

Open, and Clean the contacts of this switch.

 

------Also, follow the Cable from this switch, up to behind the headlight. there is a pull apart Plug there. Find it, and open and Clean the contacts.

 

5. Find the " Pressure Sensor " Located Forward, and above the Left, Fwd, Carb.

 

Has a 3 wire cable going to it !! ( IT GETS POWER FROM THE IGNITION FUSE )

 

The Plug, has a Rubber Boot covering it !!

 

This boot is mounted in a position that allows it to Collect " WATER " which will add resistance to Ground, This condition will lower voltage to the TCI, and ignition Coils.

 

- Remove the rubber boot, and Clean these contacts.

 

 

6. Resolder, Both Ends, of Both main Battery Cables.

 

 

7. Consider the the Starter Solinoid, if over 50K, has Burnt Up Main Contacts inside the Solinoid ( This is Very Common )

Fix:--- Replace the Starter Solinoid--

 

8. Have you ever Replaced the Plug Wires, If Not--- Get some 7MM solid Core copper plug wire from Auto parts dealer, and Replace the wires, Its Easy to do !!

 

9. Check the Resistance thru all 4 of your Spark Plug Caps !! Make sure all the same resistance.

 

10. Replace plugs with NGK, Iridium Plugs. they seem to help cold starting a little.

 

 

And Another very common cause of hard starting, if Moisture, inside of the TCI Unit.

Remove unit, remove cover, put in oven at 110 deg.F for 2 hours to Dry Out the Moisture that IS inside the TCI, ( They all have moisture inside, which causes problems )

 

After, all this, then go to work on the Carbs ---

 

Also, check the Large Electrical plug from the Stator, to the Regulator, for Burnt Pins, ( Read the AC voltage on each of the three wires thru this plug )

 

Also, check the electrical Plug, From the Regulator going to battery and Ground points. ( Check your DC charging voltage at + Bat stud, should be at least 13.7 volts or as high as 14.2 ) If its below 13 volts. then you might have charging problems.

[ActionJax]

Freebird,

 

Actually, I was mostly joking about the beer. I don't drink when I drive. But I'll put grab the rest of those items.

 

BTW, what kind of oil do you guys like to use in the gen1, and how much do I need? I've got an oil filter already.

 

Thanks