Bike dies when very wet

[Scooter Bob]

1st time was last July. Had just forded 3 shallow streams on a rustic road. 1/4 mile later, bike dies. Seemed like loss of ignition, all other lights and stuff worked. Starter would work fine, just no fire. I did look underneath, and cleaned dust and gunk from those 4 drip lines that vent onto the end of the kickstand. One of them suddenly appeared to vent some fuel vapor, and shortly thereafter, it fired up and was good for months.

 

2nd time was October and we had been riding in the rain for hours. Suddenly died. Flipped the key off and on while still rolling and it would fire for a second or so, and then cut off again. Once stopped, I checked those vent lines again, and they appeared clear. After several minutes and several flips of the kill switch, ignition switch, and general fiddling in desperation, it suddenly fired up and away we went.

 

3rd time, yesterday, lots of rain and getting worse and it dies 3 miles from home. Flipped the key off and on while still rolling and it would fire for a second or so, and then cut off again. Cleaned vent lines 1st, no help. Lots of switch fiddling, no help. Went for shelter to discuss our options for getting bike hauled home( hate the thought of that ) we tried it again. Crank and crank and no spark. Just for laughs, I pushed the Cruise switch to "off" from the usual center position an bang, it fired up and off we went. On the way home, I did flip that cruise switch back to the middle where it was and it stayed running.

 

Very intermittent, therefore very hard to troubleshoot, especially when on the road, in the rain, and no testing equipment at hand when the problem occurs. Starter works, just no fire.

 

Anybody heard of any certain connector related to the ignition system that has had moisture issues? Any other thoughts on the subject??

 

I don't want any of my HD buddies around when this happens again, if you kow what I mean.

 

Thanks, Scooter Bob

[IH Truck Guy]

1st time was last July. Had just forded 3 shallow streams on a rustic road. 1/4 mile later, bike dies. Seemed like loss of ignition, all other lights and stuff worked. Starter would work fine, just no fire. I did look underneath, and cleaned dust and gunk from those 4 drip lines that vent onto the end of the kickstand. One of them suddenly appeared to vent some fuel vapor, and shortly thereafter, it fired up and was good for months.

 

2nd time was October and we had been riding in the rain for hours. Suddenly died. Flipped the key off and on while still rolling and it would fire for a second or so, and then cut off again. Once stopped, I checked those vent lines again, and they appeared clear. After several minutes and several flips of the kill switch, ignition switch, and general fiddling in desperation, it suddenly fired up and away we went.

 

3rd time, yesterday, lots of rain and getting worse and it dies 3 miles from home. Flipped the key off and on while still rolling and it would fire for a second or so, and then cut off again. Cleaned vent lines 1st, no help. Lots of switch fiddling, no help. Went for shelter to discuss our options for getting bike hauled home( hate the thought of that ) we tried it again. Crank and crank and no spark. Just for laughs, I pushed the Cruise switch to "off" from the usual center position an bang, it fired up and off we went. On the way home, I did flip that cruise switch back to the middle where it was and it stayed running.

 

Very intermittent, therefore very hard to troubleshoot, especially when on the road, in the rain, and no testing equipment at hand when the problem occurs. Starter works, just no fire.

 

Anybody heard of any certain connector related to the ignition system that has had moisture issues? Any other thoughts on the subject??

 

I don't want any of my HD buddies around when this happens again, if you kow what I mean.

 

Thanks, Scooter Bob

 

Well,the most obvious answer is......"Should have bought a 1st Gen" :rotfl: You had to know that was coming buddy....

 

If all the electrical parts are free of cracks,that would leave it to a connector that makes a poor connection when submerged..

I don't know of a specific one to look at,but I would pull them all apart,clean them up and reassemble using diaelectric grease...I would also spray wd-40 or contact cleaner in the kill switch just to take it out of the equation...

I guess once you do that,you could take the garden hose and start soaking the motor one section at a time to see if you can get it to happen again...

 

As far as breaking down with the Harley riders,that's exactly the group to be with..

They always have the tools....:crackup:

 

If you need a hand today,give me a call..I don't have to go into work untill midnite...

[Scooter Bob]

I really think it will be some type of ignition part connector (position sensor or primary coil leads). With the kill switch off, starter doesn't work either, so I doubt it's there either. Hopefully, someone else has seen this on a 2nd gen and might know exactly where to look.

 

Come to think of it, it did happen once when I did a really thorough wash job. I thought it was all the water pooled in the heads around the spark plugs, but I didn't see water in the back heads yesterday, and can't see in around the front ones cus of the motor mounts.

 

I quit washing it so good, and never had a problem starting it afterwards again.

 

I'd hate to let any of the HD guys help out on the side of the road, could be worse than when BongoBobNY let those 2genners wrench on his 1st gen.

 

Thanks for the offer to help Dan, but since it's not raining I think we'll ride to a benefit today for a friend that just died of cancer. If it's not wet, it's fine. I will be putting on a new rear tire this week, so I will look all around under there and see if I can find any connectors getting wet.

 

Later, Scooter Bob

[IH Truck Guy]

Sorry to hear about your friend....

 

I can't believe that none of the other 2nd genners have had this problem...

Maybe they are all fair weather riders....

Maybe when they all get done riding today,one of them will let you know which connector to look at...

 

Like you said,it doesn't always happen,so very hard to trouble shoot...

[Squeeze]

Sounds like there's a Problem with the Side Stand Switch ??

[Cougar]

I was thinking the same thing Squeeze:scratchchin:

[RossKean]

It wouldn't crank if it was the sidestand switch!

[N3FOL]

It could very well be the sidestand switch dilemma. My guess is it could be a fuel filter that needs to be replaced soon.

[royalstarjac]

Might also be the ignition switch. How deep of a stream did you ford:smile5:? Seriously though, I've seen this happen with the ignition switch. Carry some wd40 and soak in and around the ignition switch next time it happens. You could also grab a water hose and try to induce the problem. Soak your sidestand switch and see what happens. If that doesn't do it, soak your ignition switch.

[Blackjack]

I will chime in with royalstarjac on this one. Awhile back at the Annual GA M&E Sleeperhawk and the Mechanic had a time of it with this same problem. At first they thought it was bad gas, but emptying the tank and new gas did not solve the problem. We were out riding in the middle of nowhere (after a fine lunch at Col. Poole's BBQ in Ellijay) and it happened again. A run was made to a local quick-store for some WD-40, and that did solve the problem (temporarily, anyway!). It was, after all, the ignition switch!

 

TERRY

[N3FOL]

It might be a good idea to retrofit the Venture with a rubber cap over the ignition switch.

[RandyR]

This is funny...

 

I quit riding the old Triumphs back in the 1970's because I got tired of electrical problems in the rain.

[Sleeperhawk]

I had two issues with the rain on my 05.

 

First time was leaving Freebirds MD in the rain, bike suddenly died, would turn over but no spark. We hauled it back to Freebirds, and traced it to the Starter Relay switch. This is located by the fuel filter. There was a pin hole in the black casing because the switch somehow melted the plastic from the inside out, rain/moisture got in the pin hole and shorted it out. Got that replaced under warranty.

 

Second time, again in heavy rain, the ignition switch caused problems like BlackJack described above. WD40 helped us get home, but immediately had my local dealer replace the switch under warranty.

[Scooter Bob]

I had two issues with the rain on my 05.

 

First time was leaving Freebirds MD in the rain, bike suddenly died, would turn over but no spark. We hauled it back to Freebirds, and traced it to the Starter Relay switch. This is located by the fuel filter. There was a pin hole in the black casing because the switch somehow melted the plastic from the inside out, rain/moisture got in the pin hole and shorted it out. Got that replaced under warranty.

 

Second time, again in heavy rain, the ignition switch caused problems like BlackJack described above. WD40 helped us get home, but immediately had my local dealer replace the switch under warranty.

 

Thanks. I took that relay out, an didn't see any signs of physical damage and the connectors were clean.

 

I just looked at the diagram to see how I could have power everywhere but no spark, and I do see a seperate wire going just to the Ignitor box, along with 1 for radio, 1 feeding a bunch of fuses, and 1 going to all the safety switches my HDs never had. I will look into that ignition switch closer tomorrow.

 

I see I've collected a lot of dirt on the outside of some other conectors under the coolant recovery tank, and I think one of them is the ignition pick up coil connector. Too bad I can't get my fat fingers in there to even touch them. That area looks like a good job for this Friday off since the weather looks like crap anyhow.

 

Thanks for the help everyone, and I'll keep posting what I find, Scooter Bob

[Scooter Bob]

How deep of a stream did you ford:smile5:? .

 

The streams were only 4-6 inches deep, and we weren't going all that fast through them. Never would have gotten water up to the ignition switch area.

 

I will look much more seriously at those dirt covered connectors under the coolant/battery area. Actually I think I will start with the bike running and start hitting that area with the garden hose and see if that kills it.

 

I'm actually surprised there is no type of shield extending down from the front of the fender to keep from throwing mud and stuff forward to this area. Maybe I should make one.

 

Later, Scooter Bob

[GeorgeS]

Order a new Ignition Switch !! Its just a matter of time.

 

Use CRC 2-26 on all other Switch's

[Cougar]

What does a new OEM switch cost these days?

[Scooter Bob]

With the garden hose, I managed to kill it 5 times last night. It's not liking water in the area under the seat behind the cosmetic covers. Bike is sitting idling normal, shoot water in from left side and it just cuts out. I don't see any openings in the starter relay and that connector looks clean.

 

When dead, you can crank and quick flip key off and back on and it will always fire for first 1 second and then cut out. Once it cuts out, I don't see any of the codes that could have flashed through the check engine light.

 

I was about ready to remove battery and coolant tank stuff to get at everything, but decided to wait. I'll call a dealer this morning and see how far I should be going with this under warranty yet. My biggest fear is having them with the bike for days or worse. If I let one of them look at it, I will make sure they have the Ignitor and Starter relay in stock if they need replacing.

 

I'll keep you all posted, Later, Scooter Bob

[RedRider]

What does a new OEM switch cost these days?

 

Last I checked - $229

 

RR

[Scooter Bob]

So I ask the dealer about fixing it under warranty, knowing full well its probably connectors that need cleaning, but could be getting water in the ignitor or other part that might need replacing. If they found a bad part, they wouldn't put the bike back together so I can ride till it comes in. They did say if I take it apart and clean the connectors and such it will not void the warranty.

 

So, rather than sit without a scoot for days, today we will remove battery and coolant tank to get at everything and clean all the connectors under there, fill with dilectric grease and then spray with ignition sealer. After that stuff dries, out will come the garden hose again and we'll soak it good and see if the problem is fixed. Of course the way the weather looks today, I could just test it in the rain too.

 

Later, Scooter Bob

Edited May 1, 2009 by Scooter Bob

[royalstarjac]

Did you find out what the problem was? Your main fuse panel is behind the side cover in the area you described.-Jack

[Scooter Bob]

Did you find out what the problem was? Your main fuse panel is behind the side cover in the area you described.-Jack

 

I took the area apart Friday. I suspect it was an accumulation of dirt on a bundle of connectors that connect all the engine's wires to the harness. Once I started cleaning, I found out there were a bunch of connectors there, (ignition pick up, stator, neutral, low oil, feed to back coils).

 

I cleaned all these, filled with dielectric grease, and then added many coats of ignition sealer.

 

I also removed the Ignitor box to clean connectors and found the potting material on the back of the circuit board left some almost exposed solder tabs. But that should have been that way since new and problem didn't develope for 40k miles. I did lay the back of the unit full of silicone just in case.

 

I also stuck a rectangular tupperware lid on top of the shock and up behind the battery box to reduce tire slop from getting to the suspected bad area.

 

I haven't gotten around to soaking it with a hose yet, or gotten stuck in the rain again yet.

 

If I have any more issues, I'll be sure to post.

 

Later, Scooter Bob