Superbrace, my humble opinion.

[Gearhead]

Last night I received and installed the Superbrace I bought on ebay last week. It came as advertised with the correct hardware. After my morning ride, I am fairly confident that, while it is a very nice, hefty, shiny chunk of aluminum, it did nothing to change the handling of my 87 VR. My bike has the same slight propensity to mid-speed front end wobble and high-speed weave that it had before, and other than that handles fine. Exactly the same.

 

To quickly review, I've been through all the suspension bearings on the bike, have 2 new tires, double-checked the stem bearings. Thru all this, the high-speed weave, which is NOT self-amplifying, reduced a little. The mid-speed wobble up front (which IS self-amplifying) was mostly taken care of with the new front tire, but not completely. Maybe I need to double-check the balance on the tire.

 

So, it is my opinion at this point that a Superbrace on a VR is a solution looking for a problem, and not the solution to the small problems I do have.

 

Jeremy

[Squeeze]

Hi Jeremy,

 

as i know from other Bikes, such a better, the better said massiver, Forkbrace can only help in Situations where there is Movement between left and right Forkleg. That's where more Material improves the Stabilty and helps moving left and right Forkleg parallel.

In other Words, when going through a Curve and there is a Lot of Movement on the Legs, maybe by poor Pavement, there the Superbrace helps to keep the Legs on the same Point on Compression which means also on the same Point of Force to the Springs. That's important, because the Springs are progressive and any Difference in the traveled Way will result in not the same Ammount of Force on each Leg.

 

I'm sure you do not understand what i'm trying to say:080402gudl_prv:, so therefor an Explanation.

 

If you put a new Forkspring from Progressive in the left Leg and keep the old, worn Spring in the right Leg, everytime the Fork compresses and rebounds, there Travel of the left and the Right Leg would be different. Because the Springs are different Material, different wound and the overall Lenghts are different also.

 

So once you got Movement on that Fork, the Superbrace with it's thicker Material helps to straighten this out and helps to keep the lower Legs parallel. But nevertheless, there will be a Movement which cannot be wiped out by the Brace, so the different Movements will cause Force on the Wheel Spindle. As long as the Spindle can handle this Force, there will nothing bad happen. If the Force exceeds what the Spindle can Handle, the Forklegs will start to move different and this will cause the front End to Weave, Wobble or Stumble, whatever you may call it.

 

 

On a straight Line, where should more massive Material help stabilizing the Forks ?

 

Of Course, any Difference between left and right Leg could cause such Problem also. Air Pressure, Oillevel, Oilwight and so on. Did you ever open all the Pinch Bolts on the Spindle and Tripple Tree and retorque them from Bottom to Top ??

[mbrood]

Don't forget that some bikes REALLY seem to benefit from replcing those flexible engine mounts with solid mounts.

 

Mine was solved by new tires and CAREFULL attention to tire pressure. Just a few less pounds seems to change the whole feel!

[Rick Butler]

Jeremy,

 

You are right that the Superbrace is NOT the end all to all of your front end problems. All it really does is precisely tighten up the fork bottoms. However if you are thinking that it will solve your front end wobbles, etc. it will not. I don't know how many miles you have on your 87 but there are many things to consider which it appears you have addressed most of the bearings. But every front end wobble I have ever had or seen has been solved by properly tightening the steering head bearings.

 

To test this, put your bike on the centers stand and have your wife or friend hold down on the rear until your tire comes off the ground. Now center your wheel and give it a little nudge to one side (or the other) and observe how it falls to the fork stops. If it falls easily to the fork stops.....the nuts are too loose. The torque specs in any Venture manual does not get them tightened properly. The wheel should move some but should stop moving before it gets to the stops.

 

Now how to get the steering head nuts tightened is another story, but there are some threads on this forum that should explain how to do it. I have always taken the top triple tree off and repacked the bearings before tightening it. But regardless the final test is the one I explained watching the wheel fall off center.

 

My other test is to take the bike up to the speed limit, set the cruise control and then take your hands off the handle bars. You don't have to take them completely off, but enough to where there is no pressure on the bars from your hands. If the front wants to shake, then they are not tight enough...go back to step one. If you do this test at 40mph and it shakes, but runs fine at 70 mph, then it's getting close to needing attention. But if it wants to shake at 70 mph, then it's definitely time to do something about the head bearings.

 

Another issue to also look at in this situation, is how much sag your front end has. If you are still on stock springs, it is almost certain that the sag has gone from the springs. This causes your front end to set lower and therefore have less rake and trail which will cause the steering to quicken up in a turn, but will become more unstable under deceleration and cause a wobble. Just about all bikes can experience a wobble under severe deceleration. To test this without replacing the springs, pump up the front to maximum and decrease the rear pressure to the minimum.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[Gearhead]

Squeeze, I put on my German written accent filter and I think I get what you are saying. Thanks for the input.

 

At this point I figure the solid motor mounts would indeed help the hi-speed weave since it involves the whole bike, not just the front end. I didn't think the brace would really help that one.

 

As for the front-end wobble, it is just as you describe, Rick, in that I can actually release the bars at any speed as long as the road is smooth. But if the wheel hits the wrong bump or I intentionally nudge the bars, the self-amplifying wobble starts. That happens in speed ranges from 30-55 or so. At 75 if I nudged the bars, it showed a slight tendency to wobble but it didn't amplify.

 

A while back, I checked and packed the steering bearings and tightened them per the manual. I also installed progressive springs. Later I went in and further tightened the bearings, which didn't help. I don't think the bars fall quickly to the side, but don't remember for sure. I will double-check.

 

Jeremy

[Cdnlouie]

Hey Jeremy, did you check the rear shock linkage for excessive play? This linkage is a known weak point in the Venture design as it prone to wear and in need of regular maintenace (Ie. grease every 5000 miles). The 83-85 were the worse due to lack of grease zerks, unfortunately, the 86 and newer are not any better off, if riders do not apply grease regularly.

 

I wrote a test up a while back to put a block of wood beside your rear tire and use a tire iron or the equivalent (long screwdriver) and lift the rear tire until the shock engages and then drop it again and note that distance. Any free play at all in this linkage contributes to weave or wobble, the issue being lack of suspension damping by the rear shock to control it. Your bike goes into float mode and sets up a weaving oscillation due to no damping control in the rear.

 

I had 1/4 inch of play in my worn linkage and the weave was really bad, I replaced the bushings and eliminated any significant weave. These linkage bushings also need to be well greased so as not to cause binding or drag which decreases damping ability of rear shock. A worn rear shock can also cause weave and wobble no matter how good the front end is tuned.

 

Years ago, I too thought I could solve some of my weave issues with a fork brace and found it did not solve them, as that is not the purpose of this brace, as previously mentioned. The last place I looked was the shock linkage and as it turns out that was my biggest handling improvement. The second was probably my solid epoxy/rubber engine mounts that stopped the engine from rolling around in the frame and making the rider seasick.

 

There are many components that affect handling on the VR and each one needs to be painstakingly gone over until it is right. Even the front fork tuning is important and seriously affects stability.

 

Cdn-lou

[CrazyHorse]

Jeremy,

 

 

 

My other test is to take the bike up to the speed limit, set the cruise control and then take your hands off the handle bars. You don't have to take them completely off, but enough to where there is no pressure on the bars from your hands. If the front wants to shake, then they are not tight enough...go back to step one. If you do this test at 40mph and it shakes, but runs fine at 70 mph, then it's getting close to needing attention. But if it wants to shake at 70 mph, then it's definitely time to do something about the head bearings.

 

Another issue to also look at in this situation, is how much sag your front end has. If you are still on stock springs, it is almost certain that the sag has gone from the springs. This causes your front end to set lower and therefore have less rake and trail which will cause the steering to quicken up in a turn, but will become more unstable under deceleration and cause a wobble. Just about all bikes can experience a wobble under severe deceleration. To test this without replacing the springs, pump up the front to maximum and decrease the rear pressure to the minimum.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

 

I have tried let go of the bars at 25 40 and 70 at 25 no amplifying tank slap, at 40 though it starts to really amplify, at 70 no slap.

Im running new Avons, have all 6 solid mounts in and have greased the rear linkage,superbrace, and have progressive springs but I used a couple parts from the original unit as the spacer instead of the plastic they gave me, I cant remember what they are called off the top of my head they total about 3/4-1" Now I tried 0-30 weight oil like Denden was saying he uses. I also replaced the plate seats in the bottom of the fork when I changed the oil seals. I noticed while riding in this configuration it feels like I dont have enough damping effect almost like the front is too bouncy (making the front feel a little squirelly) I m going to go in the opposite direction and try 15 wt oil and use the spacer provided by progressive and see if that improves the situation. Test it and see how the suspension reacts I suspect the answer will somewhere inbetween.

 

I also have read somewhere that the Venture's front wheel is offset from the rear wheel by 1 Cm I wonder if this contributes to a wobble in a sweeping turn especially if it a little bumpy. I'm totally theorizing here and dont know for sure. Like a tank slap (similar type motion) to the head shake where our more upright riding position (many of us try to ride these like a sport bike where more weight is naturally foward due to riding position) putting more weight toward the rear lightining the front tire causing the front tire to lift off the pavement (from a slight bump) and come down outside the alignment of the rear (which I guess is already not really in alignment) when the tire comes back on the pavement causing the tire to deflect to the other side creating a viscious cycle of head shake. I also notice in my own experiance in sweeping turns if I am smooth on the controls not disrupting the suspension through my actions (throttle control, brake control etc) I dont seem to have as much shake. Rick any comments or ideas on this? I also read your article on calculating what springs you use which I thought was great.

[Guest Skateguy]

Last night I received and installed the Superbrace I bought on ebay last week. It came as advertised with the correct hardware. After my morning ride, I am fairly confident that, while it is a very nice, hefty, shiny chunk of aluminum, it did nothing to change the handling of my 87 VR. My bike has the same slight propensity to mid-speed front end wobble and high-speed weave that it had before, and other than that handles fine. Exactly the same.

 

To quickly review, I've been through all the suspension bearings on the bike, have 2 new tires, double-checked the stem bearings. Thru all this, the high-speed weave, which is NOT self-amplifying, reduced a little. The mid-speed wobble up front (which IS self-amplifying) was mostly taken care of with the new front tire, but not completely. Maybe I need to double-check the balance on the tire.

 

So, it is my opinion at this point that a Superbrace on a VR is a solution looking for a problem, and not the solution to the small problems I do have.

 

Jeremy

Does any one know of a good front end stabilizer, to fit the Venture?? I have used them on other Bikes, with good results. I also have head shake on my 86 VR---that gets my attention from time to time.

[Gearhead]

Thanks guys for all the input. CdnLouie, my rear linkage is all greased up and ready to go, and not loose. Good suggestion. Oh, BTW, my 87 does not have zerks - I think they came around 90.

 

To clarify terminology, as I see it anyway. Front-end-wobble = headshake = tankslap = rapid back-and-forth motion of the bars and front wheel. It tends to be self-starting and self-amplifying, but only with no hands on the bars. It is easliy stopped with light hand pressure on the grips. Tends to be worst around 35-40 mph. I believe it is mostly caused by front-end issues - tire wear and balance, head bearings, probably wheel bearings.

 

Hi-speed weave or oscillation = a somewhat slower weaving motion of the whole bike, not just the front end. Tends to get worse the faster you go starting around maybe 55 or 60, but in my limited experience not nearly as prone to self-amplification. However, the rider's body can actualy contribute to the conditions that cause this one, so gripping the bars tightly can make it worse. Tends to be a function of frame stiffness and rear wheel issues. Thus, solid motor mounts, which make the frame effectively stiffer, tend to improve this.

 

In my case, the weave is minor and insignificant. The wobble is only occasional, but when it happens it's startling.

 

Jimbob, some of us have found the Progressive recommended preload or close to it with the factory oil qty to be a bit harsh, and that's with SAE10 oil. SAE15 oil will be harsher, but of course YMMV. I want to try draining an oz or two of oil out per some recent discussion here and maybe reduce preload by 1/2" or so.

 

A front-end stabilizer essentially adds friction to the bars turning, right? Similar effect to tightening the stem bearings?

 

Jeremy

[Guest Ken8143]

I didn't have a problem with the high speed weave until I tighted up the front bearing thingie. Seemed it was harder to keep it straight, especially two up.

 

Got things too tight?

[CrazyHorse]

I didn't have a problem with the high speed weave until I tighted up the front bearing thingie. Seemed it was harder to keep it straight, especially two up.

 

Got things too tight?

 

My local motorcycle mechanic friend related to me bearings too tight in his experiance produced a back and forth weave.

 

Gearhead Im using 0-30 Oil currently and am getting an annoying bounce it feels like out of the front suspension. Im trying new things to get a feel how they affect the bike. So Im gonna try 15 wt see what it does I think the answer will lie somewhere in between.

[CrazyHorse]

 

To clarify terminology, as I see it anyway. Front-end-wobble = headshake = tankslap = rapid back-and-forth motion of the bars and front wheel. It tends to be self-starting and self-amplifying, but only with no hands on the bars. It is easliy stopped with light hand pressure on the grips. Tends to be worst around 35-40 mph. I believe it is mostly caused by front-end issues - tire wear and balance, head bearings, probably wheel bearings

 

Jeremy

 

I have the same issue 35-40 mph,not below that and not above that. I have progressives, all of the solid motor mounts mounted, superbrace, brand new avons I was running at around 40 psi. Like I said before Im running 0w-030 in the forks. My bearings in the wheels appeared to be good and I greased them. I'ts my feeling that is has to do with front end either the bearings or fork setup (the type of springs, preload, oil, and oil level) , and since everyone has different weights and heights (front to rear weight balance) maybe this is why not everyone experiance it. Im gonna play around with different combos and see what I come up with.

[Gearhead]

Ken, I'd say yes, probably too tight. With the front wheel off the ground, you should be able to just nudge the bars one way from center and they should move a little ways, but not fall freely to the stop, I'm told.

 

Over the years some bikes, usually sport bikes, have had steering dampers, if not stock then readily available in the aftermarket, presumably to combat wobble. That tells me that wobble is inherent to MC design to some extent, and that sportier geometry exacerbates this tendency. If wobble was merely a matter of something wrong, why would steering dampers exist? Maybe with certain geometry combinations it's just a matter of getting everything optimized to minimize the wobble. Just a wild thought.

 

Jeremy

[BradT]

Squeeze, At this point I figure the solid motor mounts would indeed help the hi-speed weave since it involves the whole bike, not just the front end. I didn't think the brace would really help that one.

 

A while back, I checked and packed the steering bearings and tightened them per the manual. I also installed progressive springs. Later I went in and further tightened the bearings, which didn't help. I don't think the bars fall quickly to the side, but don't remember for sure. I will double-check.

 

Jeremy

 

One of our members here had a similar problem, changed the tire, balanced the tire, added a superbrace, then went to the solid engine mounts. Nothing changed.

 

Tightened the steering head brgs, again nothing. However he went back and loosened steering head brgs (just a little) and he has not complained since (at least not about a wobble), and said his problem went away.

 

So my two cents is that if this fellow is not complaining he finally got it, must have been brgs.. Some think he is a bit anal, but I know better.

 

Good luck.

 

Brad

[CrazyHorse]

Supposedly all bikes will do it at some speed.

[GeorgeS]

After reading thru all the comments on this subject, all very good and applicable informtion.

 

There is one more item, and that is the Actual "Entire Frame Design" of the motorcycle. We are useing a tubular frame on these type bikes, and they are similiar on most large toureing bikes. ( Welded tubes ) In my opinion, this is like stuffing a Grand Prix Race car engine into a 52 Chevy Bel Air !!

 

If you have ever taken a serious look at the , now, Single one piece frames being used on Sport Bikes, and the Massive amount of metal used in the construction of these bikes. You have to take note of, why did they go to all this trouble?

 

Ok, I know most folks on this web site are not big fans of Sport Bikes !! However, in one respect these modern Sport bikes are Far Superior to the average touring bike. !! And that is Frame Design !!

 

As many of you know I own a Suziki Hyabusa. If you ever get a chance to Examine the Frame on one of these machines, you might think, Why did they go to all that trouble ??

 

The reason is exactly what is being discussed on the thread.

Stability!!!!!!!!

 

This bike will go into a head shake, But it will NOT happen until you Exceed 200 MPH. !!!!! Why?? Because of the Massive, Strength of the "One Piece" , Frame Casting, and added to that the Entire Engine adds strength to the entire Assembly. Also a big factor here is the " Inverted " front Fork assemblies. Also the Tube's are considerable larger in diameter. Also, the Triple Tree mounts, are made of larger castings.

 

In my opinion, after haveing owened a Yam FJ-1200 and the GSX 1300R, is that the Front End design of the 1st Gen Venture, Is Lousey !!!!!!!!! Frankly, I do not feel safe, rideing my 1st Gen at anything over 85 MPH. For the Weight, and size of this motorcycle I consider the Front fork and triple tree to be, simple be Inadequate.

 

The highest speed I have had the 1300 Suziki up to is about 120mph, and frankly the handlying is so good, you would not know your were going over 60 mph. ( I am not bragging about my driveing ability here ) This is simply a fact.

 

Cruzing down a good highway on this thing, with a full face helmet, you hear nothing but wind noise, you do not feel the road, Its like flying 2 feet off the ground. It goes thru corners with Rock Solid Stability !! ( I am also referencing here to the 79 BMW R-100 I used to own and rode about 40K )

 

Believe me folks, until you have ridden a Modern Liter Class 1000CC Sport Bike, You don't know what good handling is !!

 

I would also add, that the New Yam FJ-1300 and the new KAW 1400 Sport Touring bikes will also fall into this class for Good Handling.

[CrazyHorse]

Yea your right George their frames are much beefier. Do you think the ventures reach a harmonic stage quicker because of the flimsy frame.

 

I'd be interested to know if all 1st Gen's shake in the 40 mph range w/o hands. From my experience I dont have any in the 25 mph range I do in the 35-40 range, and dont seem to have it above that anyone else?

 

I have superbrace, all solid mounts in, avons filled to 40 psi, progressive springs, using mid range rear shock psi, no air in front, rear damper at 3.

[Gearhead]

Definitely. In engineer-speak, when you say it reaches a harmonic stage, what you actually mean is a resonant frequency where vibration tends to be self-amplifying. Resonant frequency is dependent on mass and stiffness. More mass brings the resonant frequency down, while more stiffness drives it up. This is illustrated by, say, two boards of the same type of wood. One it a 1x4, one a 4x4, both 12' long. Secure one end of each. The 1x4 will be floppy, and if you "spring" it like a diving board it will bounce up and down at its resonant frequency, which will be relatively low. The 4x4, while heavier, is much stiffer and it's bounce action will be faster, or higher frequency.

 

Making a frame stiffer without increasing the weight too much will make the resonant frequency higher, which means it won't be excited until a higher speed is reached. So yes, a stiffer frame drives up the speed for headshake.

 

Consider also the mass. A sportbike tends not to have anything on it that's not performance-related. No extra mass. Our Ventures are rolling entertainment centers, carrying all kinds of unnecessary stuff, strictly speaking. That also brings resonant frequency, thus headshake speed, down.

 

Jeremy

[GeorgeS]

Well, Is not just One reason. Its the Entire design of the bike.

 

Frame design, Front suspensioin design, and also Rear Suspension, wheel diameter, height, and length of wheel base. It all, figures into the handlying factor.

 

The Front Fork design on the new Sports is way beyond touring bikes.

 

Even the Rear Swing Arm of the busa is Very Impressive, Rear suspension also figures into the Stability Problem.

 

I have always thought that if my Busa Only had a 60 HP Engine, it would Still be an Fantastic machine.

 

Haveing said all this, The Venture is still a great Freeway cruizer, and does a good job on Twisties, considering its size and weight.

 

But, Don't, think you are going to keep up with a sport bike on twistie roads, thats a recipie for Death.

 

That front end will Kill you !!!

[CrazyHorse]

Too bad they dont make a new 1st Gen style based on the FJR1300 that has a nice beefy frame and is nice performing machine just would like to see a bigger version with radio/cb,better seats etc.

[Condor]

Yea your right George their frames are much beefier. Do you think the ventures reach a harmonic stage quicker because of the flimsy frame.

 

I'd be interested to know if all 1st Gen's shake in the 40 mph range w/o hands. From my experience I dont have any in the 25 mph range I do in the 35-40 range, and dont seem to have it above that anyone else?

 

I have superbrace, all solid mounts in, avons filled to 40 psi, progressive springs, using mid range rear shock psi, no air in front, rear damper at 3.

 

I have two 83's and neather one has head shakes at any speed up to 105. I wonder if it's the size of the ballast sitting in the saddle that has something to do with it??? Running progressives with about 1.5" spacer preload. Max pressure in the forks and rear shock. Avon front with 50psi and Elete II on the rear with 40psi.

[Cdnlouie]

Funny you should mention ballast Condor! My 85VR with all the goodies installed (except a progressive rear spring) seems the most stable with two-up and loaded. Running light it tends to have a bit more wander lust at speeds over 85mph, but load her up and she plants like a rock. It's like the Venture performs best when she is doing what she likes to do.

 

Jimbob's 'bounce' description sounds like poor damping. I would stick with proper fork oil if I am dealing with this type of problem, so you can be certain of the damping effect. Another thought might be that someone could have messed up the fork assembly and it is not working properly. Especially if you bought the bike and have always had the problem. You have to go through everything and assume nothing when trying to isolate problems like this. Checking for wheel trueness is also important, a bent rim will bounce, an improperly installed tire (not seated properly on rim) will bounce (this should show up with proper balancing). Improper balancing can be an issue.

 

Something to consider (as Gearhead mentioned) with weave, etc. is not to try and correct the movement by holding on tighter, but let the bike absorb the wind, or pavement issues and it self-corrects itself. Some movement is part of the bike design and no real threat as long as the rider responds correctly. Don't stiffen up in fright and try to hang on to the bike which is perfectly natural. Loosen your death grip and let the bike self-correct from the condition that may have started the oscillation. The Venture is amazingly stable for its weight and touring purposes and as long as we do not push beyond its limits, we can be pretty happy campers.

 

Working with the old girl over the years has resulted in cutting down some easily disposed weight issues. Like, dumping the amp and radio, speakers out of the front fairing and putting in a small modern system that works in your helmet speakers for starters. Another great modification is eliminating the trunk and luggage rack from the rear and having a backrest custom built (for passenger) and adding a softside luggage on the backrest (only as needed, T-bag works great, see my gallery).

 

I also added a luggage rack (25lbs down low for more centralized weight distribution, I.e. less top heavy, balances better at all speeds) on my trailor hitch bracket. All of these modifications sure makes this a great boulevard cruiser when you want to, and reasonably sporty when you want to have fun on the twisties. For an outdated machine it still seems like a lot of fun! I guess it helps if I just don't know any better.

 

Cheers

[CrazyHorse]

 

Jimbob's 'bounce' description sounds like poor damping. I would stick with proper fork oil if I am dealing with this type of problem, so you can be certain of the damping effect. Another thought might be that someone could have messed up the fork assembly and it is not working properly. Especially if you bought the bike and have always had the problem. You have to go through everything and assume nothing when trying to isolate problems like this. Checking for wheel trueness is also important, a bent rim will bounce, an improperly installed tire (not seated properly on rim) will bounce (this should show up with proper balancing). Improper balancing can be an issue.

 

Cheers

 

 

Yes I was thinking the same thing damping is less I tried a 0-30 oil as an experiment and I think that has given me the bounce effect I described. Im going the other extreme now going with a 15wt and see what happens. I did replace my fork seals and the plate seats since they were both worn out.

[CrazyHorse]

I have two 83's and neather one has head shakes at any speed up to 105. I wonder if it's the size of the ballast sitting in the saddle that has something to do with it??? Running progressives with about 1.5" spacer preload. Max pressure in the forks and rear shock. Avon front with 50psi and Elete II on the rear with 40psi.

 

I'm wondering if there is a difference between the early models like you have or the later ones like mine in terms of weight distribution somehow affecting things. Yes I'm a bigger man 6'02 260lbs. Im just talking head shakes with no hands like Gearhead has. Mine is fine up to 110 with hands on bars.

[Guest Vermincelli]

There are so many variables it's very hard to narrow it down.

 

spring stiffness

oil level in each shock

wheel bearings

headset bearings (both bad or too tight)

front tire

rear tire

tracking of wheels

air pressure front

air pressure rear

even the fender not tightened all the way down, cracked or bent slightly to one side

weight of rider

weight of passenger

weight of luggage

air pressure in both front and back

motor mounts

just about every bushing in the bike

inadequate fork brace

bent rim

tire balancing off

 

Every one of these can lead to handling issues including vibration, wobble, drift and shimmy and many times even if it's within "specs" it can still be a cause if other problems exist as well.

 

mine has no shaking at all but has a slight wandering where it's quite easy to have it go from one side of the lane to the other with no input with me. Plus at low speeds I can feel the front flex from the factory fork brace. For many it may not be an issue but for me It's annoying so I am beefing up the brace to start.