Drive Shaft With Busted Teeth

[Jinksy4]

Started to put my bike back together today and got a little surprise. I had not bothered to clean the drive shaft or differential when I removed it several weeks ago because I didn’t expect anything to be wrong with them after only 12,000 miles with no apparent symtoms. Cleaned the drive shaft with brake cleaner, scrubbed it good with scotch-brite, hit it with brake cleaner again, and blew it off with the air gun. Got out the magnifying glass and found it to be a piece of junk. I have some experience in metallurgy and expected to see a wear pattern on the teeth, not cracks, chips, and uneven wear. When I removed the differential drain plug to flush it out with new fluid I found it covered with shavings. The gears in the differential look good. I got the bike last year with a few thousand miles on it and put an additional 7,000 on it. I suspect this 9 year old bike has never had any maintenance done before I picked it up – regardless what the last owner said.

 

Has anybody had this experience or seen a drive shaft with this kind of wear?

 

(see attached pictures)

[Brake Pad]

took my shop 16 days to get a new one from Japan. no one In Florida had any on hand, so after 24 days I finally got the bike back.

Mine did it at 12,300 miles

[Eck]

In my opinion only.....I feel that most of those marks on the teeth are a normal wear patteren for the drive shafts of all Ventures including the metal chips found on the drain plug.

I have seen it many times on ventures that I have worked on.

In the pics, I did not notice any broken teeth, but I will go back and revist each photo.

The wear patteren appeared to be excessive in depth on some of the teeth, but that excessive wear may have been from the lack of grease as you so mentioned it as the lack of normal maintenance.

[KiteSquid]

That is what happens when splines are not lubricated with a molybdenum disulfide paste with at least 60% moly.

 

 

When you get your new shaft and the cup that it goes into, as it will be worn also, lubricate with either Honda Moly60 paste, or Krytox gpl 214 grease.

 

I recommend re-lubing every time the rear tire is off of the bike.

 

 

BTW how do the front splines look????

[Jinksy4]

In my opinion only.....I feel that most of those marks on the teeth are a normal wear patteren for the drive shafts of all Ventures including the metal chips found on the drain plug.

 

I have seen it many times on ventures that I have worked on.

 

In the pics, I did not notice any broken teeth, but I will go back and revist each photo.

The wear patteren appeared to be excessive in depth on some of the teeth, but that excessive wear may have been from the lack of grease as you so mentioned it as the lack of normal maintenance.

 

Hey Eck,

 

Thanks for the input. My main concern are cracks at the top of the tooth - it looks like cracked scale, but under magnification are cracks (pictures barely pick it up). Also, again looking at the top of the tooth you can see the uneven wear across the tooth - thinner in the middle.

 

Are you saying that folks will continue to use a shaft with this type of wear? When do you normally replace the shaft from wear?

[Jinksy4]

That is what happens when splines are not lubricated with a molybdenum disulfide paste with at least 60% moly.

 

 

When you get your new shaft and the cup that it goes into, as it will be worn also, lubricate with either Honda Moly60 paste, or Krytox gpl 214 grease.

 

I recommend re-lubing every time the rear tire is off of the bike.

 

 

BTW how do the front splines look????

 

I agree with the 60% moly - have it and using it. Was lucky to get a shaft off a 2008 with under a hundred miles from Pinwall cycle on ebay for about $35 shipped to me by 4-24. The front splines look new - wierd - they had some real dirty grease on the splines at disassembly.

 

Thanks for the input.

[Steve S]

Jinksy

 

I thought the condition of the gear was awful. The teeth looked like they had rusted, then been run and the rust flaked off. I saw a couple that were very thin in the center. You did good in changing it. And I was surprised that you found one so cheap. Was expecting a couple hundred bucks for that.

 

What did the ring gear look like? I'm assuming it looked good since you didn't change it.

[KiteSquid]

The front splines look new - wierd - they had some real dirty grease on the splines at disassembly.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

I suspected as much. The front splines are straight while the rear are rounded.

 

 

The front stays in 100% Contact, while the rear will make up for any angular misalignment, so they IMHO, WILL see more wear than the front.

 

 

A lot of motorcyclists will use the drive shaft until the flats on the outside of the spline wear down to pointed ridges however I wont, but sense I have ben using Honda Moly60 grease I have NOT seen the wear you have.

 

 

Thanks for the photos and the reaffirmation that Yamaha does not properly lubricate the splines in these bikes at the factory. Side note, if you look in the service manual in one location they say to use Lithium Soap grease and in another they say to use molybdenum disulphide grease on the splines................

 

 

BTW the Krytox gpl 214 grease in my first post is the BEST grease for this application, but it costs about $30 for 2 Oz, plus shipping..... Krytox gpl 214 grease is a Teflon like oil in a high temp grease base with an undisclosed amount of molybdenum disulphide added for high pressure applications, like our splines.

 

 

The Honda Moly60 can be had at a Honda CAR dealership for under $10 for 3 Oz. IMHO the Moly60 is the best bang for the buck. It is what I use........ OH if you buy it, it is 3Oz of grease in a 6 Oz tube, so don't be concerned that it is only half full..............

[Steve S]

Jinksy

 

 

What did the ring gear look like? I'm assuming it looked good since you didn't change it.

 

Well, I just showed my ignorance. :bang head: I thought that gear, (NO. If I had thought, I would have known.) meshed with the ring gear. The gear is cut too straight to mesh with a ring gear. I had to go look at the parts breakdown and check it out.

 

This being said, I am going to pull my driveshaft and check it out. I keep the gears and splines on the wheel lubed good, but have never pulled the driveshaft and greased it. With 60K miles I believe it is well past due. Time to go to the wonderful Tech Manual that this site provides for us and check out the procedeure.

[Eck]

Also, again looking at the top of the tooth you can see the uneven wear across the tooth - thinner in the middle.

 

Are you saying that folks will continue to use a shaft with this type of wear? When do you normally replace the shaft from wear?

 

Well after revisiting the photos, I agree the top edge of the gears are worn quite well..

 

at first glance I only noticed the dark shadow marks and that is why I said it appeared to be normal wear..Good thing you changed it out...

[N3FOL]

Looking at the pics and with little experience on how it is suppose to look like, it does look like normal wear and tear on the shaft. Just wondering, what if you just lube the splines with Moly60 and re-install the same shaft...will it harm anything?

[Squeeze]

Looking at the pics and with little experience on how it is suppose to look like, it does look like normal wear and tear on the shaft. Just wondering, what if you just lube the splines with Moly60 and re-install the same shaft...will it harm anything?

 

Not a good Idea, because those worn Teeth on the Shaft will wear out the Spline fast. They may be good for now, but the will take a hit. I'd do this to get around any Down Time of the Bike, but would replace the Shaft immediately. Two to four Weeks maximum and no big Trips, or one big Trip and after that ...

[Jinksy4]

Well, I just showed my ignorance. :bang head: I thought that gear, (NO. If I had thought, I would have known.) meshed with the ring gear. The gear is cut too straight to mesh with a ring gear. I had to go look at the parts breakdown and check it out.

 

This being said, I am going to pull my driveshaft and check it out. I keep the gears and splines on the wheel lubed good, but have never pulled the driveshaft and greased it. With 60K miles I believe it is well past due. Time to go to the wonderful Tech Manual that this site provides for us and check out the procedeure.

 

You might want to order a new oil seal (part # 93108-43013-00) if you pull the shaft from the differential. Mine was destroyed during disassembly and had to wait 6 days for the dealer to get them in - ordered 2 to have a spare. Also, a lot of folks have advised greasing the lip of the seal at assembly to help prevent destroying it at the next maintenance interval.

[tazmocycle]

it looks to me as the gears wasn't aligened problly when assembled. the teeth should run deeper in to the matching set. the smaller set will show wear faster because it runs more rpms than the main gear.

[Cougar]

Why don't you send me or PM me your mailing addy

and I will send you a almost brand new one!

 

Gatta find a long box first though , and might not be until

Monday or Tuesday before I can send it Bro.!

 

Jeff

[Cougar]

BTW, I just cleaned mine off as well. with carb cleaner

got it shinny and it looks Nothing like that kind of wear!

 

That does not look right to at all... just my opinion though!

Jeff

[Steve S]

it looks to me as the gears wasn't aligened problly when assembled. the teeth should run deeper in to the matching set. the smaller set will show wear faster because it runs more rpms than the main gear.

 

 

Taz.

These gears do not mesh with another gear of a different size. This shaft slides into a splined collar and it stays meshed with the same teeth. There is not any type of adjustment to make with the connection. I thought the shaft meshed with the rear diferental ring gear until I looked at a parts breakdown (see link). http://216.37.204.206/xtremepowersports/Yamaha_OEM/YamahaMC.asp?Type=13&A=320&B=27

 

I do agree with you though. It looks like it should have meshed a little deeper. Kinda makes me wonder what the collar looked like.

[Rick Butler]

Mike,

 

From what you said about the condition of the hypoid fluid with metal flakes in it, I would be suspect that it had ever been serviced (or not enough). This gear on the end of the shaft just slips into a coupler attached to one end of the pinion gear and is lubricated by the hypoid fluid in the final drive. That's why there is a seal to hold it in the coupler.

 

Now with all of this being said, I would suggest that this final drive is probably in it's final stages and is probably really making alot of strange noises. If it were me, I'd be looking for a new final drive with drive shaft. There should be someone out here that has triked their bike or has gone to a V-Max final drive that you could get one from.

 

This is why I have suggested that every new bike, change the fluid after a couple of 500 mile rides, just to get all of the rough edges off the pinion and ring gears and the fluid clean afterwards. In fact I have gone to a severe gear 75/140 synthetic fluid.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[GunnyButch]

I have a final drive just taking up space in the garage if anyone needs one. It came off in december with 35k on it.

[Jinksy4]

That is what happens when splines are not lubricated with a molybdenum disulfide paste with at least 60% moly.

 

 

When you get your new shaft and the cup that it goes into, as it will be worn also, lubricate with either Honda Moly60 paste, or Krytox gpl 214 grease.

 

 

I recommend re-lubing every time the rear tire is off of the bike.

 

BTW how do the front splines look????

 

Was rereading the thread and happened on your advise that I should replace the gear coupling (cup) - must have missed that first time through. Took a quick look tonight and it doesn't look bad and their was no noise in the differential before teardown (but my pipes are kinda loud). Will take a closer look tomorrow and take some pictures for some more feedback - thanks for the help.

[Jinksy4]

Why don't you send me or PM me your mailing addy

and I will send you a almost brand new one!

 

Gatta find a long box first though , and might not be until

Monday or Tuesday before I can send it Bro.!

 

Jeff

 

Thanks so much for the offer. Just got mine in today - found it on ebay from Pinwall Cycle Salvage for about $35 to my door. Came off a 2008 with less that 100 miles and by its looks, I believe them. Hang on to yours - may need it in the future the way things are going.

 

Thanks again - way above and beyond the call.

[Jinksy4]

Mike,

 

From what you said about the condition of the hypoid fluid with metal flakes in it, I would be suspect that it had ever been serviced (or not enough). This gear on the end of the shaft just slips into a coupler attached to one end of the pinion gear and is lubricated by the hypoid fluid in the final drive. That's why there is a seal to hold it in the coupler.

 

Now with all of this being said, I would suggest that this final drive is probably in it's final stages and is probably really making alot of strange noises. If it were me, I'd be looking for a new final drive with drive shaft. There should be someone out here that has triked their bike or has gone to a V-Max final drive that you could get one from.

 

This is why I have suggested that every new bike, change the fluid after a couple of 500 mile rides, just to get all of the rough edges off the pinion and ring gears and the fluid clean afterwards. In fact I have gone to a severe gear 75/140 synthetic fluid.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

 

Rick - Thanks for the input. The final drive was not making any noise, that I could tell, before disassembly - that's what is making this episode so weird. I can see some wear marks on the pinion, but it doesn't look bad. I am going to try and get some pictures of the gear coupling wear tomorrow - doubt that I can get a good shot of the pinion. It rotates smooth with no binding or grating, but probably wouldn't make noise without a load.

 

Is your concern with just the condition or wear of the pinion or a combo of things in the drive?

[Jinksy4]

I have a final drive just taking up space in the garage if anyone needs one. It came off in december with 35k on it.

 

Gunny - thanks for the offer. Trying to make sure if I need one or not. Will let you know pretty quick - I hope. I am amazed at the amount of help this site offers - bunch of good people.

[Cougar]

Gunny, I have (TWO) of them na na boo boo!

maybe we could have a drive shaft rally or something?

 

one of mine has 3 k on it and the other as 10.5 K on it.

 

and they BOTH look the same as far a wear on them.

if that is what you want to call it. they look nothing

like the above pictures.

 

Jeff

[Squeeze]

I agree with Rick Butler about this Drive must have seen not so much of Service.

 

However, before mounting, i'd suggest you check the Spline Collar for two open Holes on the End of the Collar. You shpould be able to see them clearly, because there's the Oil coming up and into thge Collar. Probably an overeducated Serviceman was clogging the Holes with Grease on the 1st Service and nobody looked at it again.

 

I's also suggest to slightly grease the Splines on the Shaft carefully and with little Grease and Moly60, Krytox or another Grease with a Lot Moly in it.