EddyG Posted June 25, 2009 #51 Posted June 25, 2009 Next up -- Interfacing el-cheapo Midland helmet headsets to the intercom. $30.00 each is far FAR cheaper than even the cheapest J&M headset. I think I can use the 6V signal here to power the Midland microphones as they are electre instead of dynamic. Tim. I have a couple of aviation headsets laying around collecting dust, pulled the mic out wired it with stereo headsets into my helmet, since it is an electre mic I am sure it won't work from what you have said, and others I have talked to. What would I need to do to get it to work? Have you gotten that far? Eddy
timgray Posted June 28, 2009 Author #52 Posted June 28, 2009 Can one substitute a small modern amp and splice it into the lines? Nope. there are no low level audio outputs on the unit. you could get inside and find where the AMP chips are and splice in a preamplifier circuit to then drive a modern amp, but it's a major surgery job. Easier to cannibalize another amp for the parts needed.
timgray Posted June 28, 2009 Author #53 Posted June 28, 2009 Tim. I have a couple of aviation headsets laying around collecting dust, pulled the mic out wired it with stereo headsets into my helmet, since it is an electre mic I am sure it won't work from what you have said, and others I have talked to. What would I need to do to get it to work? Have you gotten that far? Eddy An electret can work. they need power and you need to block that power from going to the stereo and intercom system. you put a 10uf cap in line from the mic in to the microphone. then you put a 9V battery across the mic and ground. the 10uf cap keeps the 9v battery from frying the intercom and stereo by blocking the DC while letting it power the electret microphone capsule. I also add a 10K variable resistor to adjust the mic level as electret's generate far more signal than a dynamic mic does. you wire the 3 terminals from the variable resistor to ground, mic in on the system, and the mic line from your above circuit in that order across.
frankd Posted July 9, 2009 #54 Posted July 9, 2009 Tim, Last winter I bought a low mileage 89 to replace my 83. On my 83 I had an aftermarket AM/FM radio. My 89 has the full intercom/cb/tape/radio and I've got a couple of problems to solve. 1) The tone quality of the radio out the speakers is poor and the volume control is real sensitive. I know this problem is in the tuner/control module because I tried a friends and things worked normal. When I put my tuner module in his bike it sounded bad and the volume control was extremely sensitive. I think that cleaning the volume control will fix the sensitive control, but?? 2) I purchased some of those 'expensive' J&M speaker/mikes for the helmets. Both channels of the radio sound equal in the fairing speakers, but through the helmet speakers the left channel is dead except for noise generated by the voltage regulator. However the intercom and CB work through both sides w/normal sound. BTW, I know that it's voltage regulator noise that I hear in the left channel because when you step on the brakes or turn on the driving lights and the regulator quits shunting power to ground it goes away. When you flash the turn signal it comes and goes as the light flashes. If fixing the no radio audio in the left channel doesn't cure the noise a filter capacitor or a pi type filter will. Have you drawn any prints that might help or do you have any ideas? Frank KA9J
timgray Posted July 9, 2009 Author #55 Posted July 9, 2009 lack of radio in one channel is typically a failure in the big blue connector. Having stereo on the dash speakers but NONE in the headsets is confusing and sounds like a failure in the amplifier module. I have yet to map out the schematics inside the radio and Amplifier. noisy and sensitive controls is typically bad or dirty pots in the control pieces, take them apart and try spraying the pots with volume control cleaner (found at better electronic parts stores) and/or replace them. I have yet to measure one out to find out the value, but I'm betting it's a 10K or 100K audio taper. now the amplifiers are separate for the headphones and speakers. you may have a dead headphone amp chip. easiest solution is to buy a replacement amp module as I cant find a source for the parts yet.
rmcclain Posted July 9, 2009 #56 Posted July 9, 2009 This is somewhat off the main topic, however, all you smart guys are out there playing can anyone tell me how to fix this problem? The right speaker is much louder then the left. I installed a new speaker and cleaned all conections to no avail. Any ideas?
campfire12 Posted July 9, 2009 #57 Posted July 9, 2009 This is the forum i have been looking for.. Since everyone here seems to be sitting on a bunch of dead radios is there anyone who can part with a couple of plastic buttons.. My 84 needs a am/fm button and a frequency up button. if anyone can help me out i'll be glad to pay shiping.. would be great to put buttons on the holes in the radio.. thanks Dan
frankd Posted July 12, 2009 #58 Posted July 12, 2009 I went over to my friends house yesterday and tried the control panel from his 86 in my 89. With it installed things worked great.....The volume control wasn't so sensitive...you had to turn it way up for normal volume and both channels of the helmet speakers worked @ equal volume and great fidelity. When I put my control unit back in and came home, both channels of the helmet speakers worked and I had no voltage regulator noise in the left channel. I suspect that the pins on bottom blue connector weren't making originally and started working after being exercised. Today I took the panel apart and cleaned the volume control. I also checked the ground connection to the bottom of the volume control and it's there and solid. The wire that grounds the bottom of the volume controls occupies 2 pins on the connector and both are solid. However, the volume control still turns the volume up way too fast. I see where some water did wash into the volume potentiometer, maybe it damaged the taper. BTW, the both sides of the volume control measure 50Kohm. I'll keep my eyes open for a replacement assembly.
frankd Posted July 12, 2009 #59 Posted July 12, 2009 Well I woke up with an idea about how 'MY' cassette/radio panel had such high gain (my radio is at full volume when the dial is @ 9:00) and when I have my friends installed the radio works great----less distortion and you have to rotate the volume control all the way up to get to full volume. It dawned on me that I'd never tried the cassette. The previous owner told me that it drags. I could just put a new belt in it, but I intend on pulling the cassette and installing a hook up for my IPOD. My cassette player drags like I was told, but it's also too loud. It's just as hot as my radio Tim....We know my amplifier and tuner modules are fine because they work good with my friends control panel. My volume control appears to be good...It measures 50Kohm and after I sprayed some cleaner in it I see no open spots when you sweep it from one end to the other. The low end of the volume control IS connected to ground and the plug is making contact. When I measure from the low end of the volume control to bike chassis I get continuity. Would it be possible for you to measure the level of the signal present at the high end of the volume control on your test setup? Then I'll drag my 'scope out to the garage and measure mine. Of course if anybody has an unneeded control panel they'd be willing to sell, I'd be interested!! Frank
timgray Posted July 12, 2009 Author #60 Posted July 12, 2009 This is the forum i have been looking for.. Since everyone here seems to be sitting on a bunch of dead radios is there anyone who can part with a couple of plastic buttons.. My 84 needs a am/fm button and a frequency up button. if anyone can help me out i'll be glad to pay shiping.. would be great to put buttons on the holes in the radio.. thanks Dan Actually I'm not sitting on any dead radios, I have sent out a ton of calls for them and have not received any response. I'm still looking for more to compare and troubleshoot to identify problems. If I had some buttons I'd love to shoot some off to you. All I have is my one good working reference radio. and a couple of dead parts.
frankd Posted July 12, 2009 #61 Posted July 12, 2009 Tim, Is your good setup your testing setup?? If it is, if I determine what wire color is the high side of the volume controls could you measure the voltage there?? Do you have a 'scope. Frank
campfire12 Posted July 13, 2009 #62 Posted July 13, 2009 Thanks Timgray.. Diden't look like i was going to get any response for the buttons i need? But at least you came thru with a response and i thank you. Please keep me in mind if you come up with some. Thanks.. Dan Gamble.(campfire12)
timgray Posted July 13, 2009 Author #63 Posted July 13, 2009 My testing setup has a dead amp chip that I need to replace tonight, after that I'll take some readings for you. I dont have a scope but I can borrow one from a buddy that is not far away. My sensitive volume control was a sensitive pot. I cleaned it with some TV tuner cleaner and it worked again for a short while, It's still a bit wonky and Im still looking for a replacement piece. but it's good enough to get good readings from (It's just noisy when turning it now.
frankd Posted July 25, 2009 #64 Posted July 25, 2009 My 89's radio had a touchy volume control....with the volume control near the CCW lock, volume was real high. Also, even with the volume control turned down to a reasonable volume there was distortion and the tone control worked, but had a limited range. I also had a lot of voltage regulator noise. I replaced the voltage regulator because the bike had an aftermarket regulator. I bought a 1300 regulator on E-Bay. When I was removing the aftermarket regulator, the regulator to bike plug was burned up and locked together. I could NOT get them apart!! The aftermarket regulator had only been on a little while (installed by the previous owner). I had to cut the plugs out, and the leads were a little too short to connect. I added a short length of 10 gauge red & black wire and soldered the connections. I chose 10 ga. wire because there were 2 red and 2 black wires coming out of the regulator and also going into the motorcycle wiring. The 2 reds were connected in parallel as are the blacks. I twisted the reds together, soldered the 10 ga. to it (the leads from the regulator were about 14 ga., and the pair to the bike were a little bigger, but not 12 ga) ran the 10ga. to the red pair coming out of the regulator. I did the same for the black pair. The brown wire is probably a remote sensing lead for the regulator. I used a length of 18 ga. wire to lengthen it. My stator leads were already soldered, so I did the same with the Yamaha regulator. The regulator noise was still there, but it wasn't as loud. After I saw the burned plug I was happy I replaced the regulator before I went on vacation. As for the volume control problems.....I took my control assembly apart and carefully measured the volume control. You could see that water had leaked into it. The left and right channel controls didn't track anywhere close to each other. The signal voltage as viewed on an oscilloscope was way higher than I thought they'd be. Then I found that one channel of the volume control gave me a resistance reading that was very low to ground when the control was about mid-range. I'd tried a friends complete control panel and everything on my bike worked fine. The radio sounded much better with his panel in. I saw what looked like a clean volume control, spkr/helmet switch, tone control, assembly on E-Bay. I ended up buying it and when I installed it to my control panel today, almost everything seems fine. The volume control needs to be about 40% up for normal volume, the tone contol works better and more of the regulator noise dissapeared. Now the only problem left is that there is a little regulator noise when I have the intercom volume control up high. I'll make a filter and install it in the 12 volt supply wire for the radio system. BTW, do all the 1st. Gen bikes have this noise?? I can tell it's regulator noise because when you're at about 1500 RPM and you turn the turn signals on the noise goes away when the lights are on and returns when they flash off. The brake light or the driving lights do the same.
timgray Posted July 25, 2009 Author #65 Posted July 25, 2009 Mine does not have this noise, but I installed a decent choke+cap filter at the radio to begin with. I finally got a replacement amp chip (stole it out of a "dead" unit I got on ebay for $5.00) and have a fully working setup again. Most of the time noisy or bad volume control is due to water damaged pots. They are 10K audio taper pots, but are incredibly rare to find. they are a stacked type pot with switches. Very specalized back then, near impossible to find today. My only suggestion is to find a new volume control module on ebay, it's the fastest way to fix these unless you find a electronics place that has a stock of old parts from the 80's laying around. I have determined that I can in fact fix these things, but I need a donor, or a parts pile to pull from. I cant get anyone to send me any of their dead radio parts so it will be really tough to fix any dead radios. I'm scouring ebay to get 2 complete working sets, One to sit on a shelf, and one to install. If anyone needs any specific help and they have a parts radio to take apart for parts I can gladly help them, but getting replacement parts is near impossible from what I have discovered over the past 2 months. Again, if you have any dead 1st gen radio parts I am willing to buy them for scrap value and shipping. I'd love to get enough to offer a repair service. Oh, an update on using the cheap midland helmet headsets. It can work, but it takes about 1 hour of work and about another $15.00 in parts to make the adapter cable and you end up with a mono headset, they are wired mono in the midland cable and with really low grade wire. Far cheaper to buy one of the $65.00 goldwing headsets you see on ebay.
timgray Posted August 16, 2009 Author #66 Posted August 16, 2009 Another update. I finally got a second set of radio parts off ebay for $50.00. It seems that 1s gen radio parts have came down to the dirt cheap price levels. So I installed them in my bike to have a live testing platform. 4ohm car speakers make the stereo very VERY loud. At 1/2 volume It's loud enough to start making the speakers distort from maximum cone excursion which makes me think putting in 100uF non polar caps on the speakers would be a good idea to eliminate the BASS from destroying the cones. I also think adding a 4 ohm 30Watt resistor in line with the speaker will cut the volume in 1/2 and help there as well. One audio injection point IS the cassette input lines. when the radio is on and you inject audio into the cassette lines you get that audio out the speakers. Making a small "mixer" to match impedance and levels and a GPS or Radar detector can inject their audio into the FM radio/Ipod audio.
frankd Posted September 1, 2012 #67 Posted September 1, 2012 Tim, Did you ever get a print drawn up for the amplifier? Frank D.
timgray Posted September 7, 2012 Author #68 Posted September 7, 2012 Nope, I started to trace things out, but then a new job came along that takes all my spare time. In fact I will be getting rid of my stock radio and installing either aftermarket or a setup from a 2nd gen. I have replaced the switches twice in my radio and intercom control. it's impossible to keep water out of these due to a major design flaw in not having a water drain channel.
frankd Posted September 7, 2012 #69 Posted September 7, 2012 Tim, Well, congrats on your new job.....I hope. OK on the print. It "appears" that I have cured the regulator noise problem. Every time I'd taken the radio out and then re-installed it, the noise would get better....at first. Then I'd hit a bump and it'd come back. Last Saturday I had the left fairing piece off the bike, and the tuner and amp. modules hooked up on a table set next to the bike. I was trying to determine what was intermittent on the replacement radio I'd purchased. I tightened the PC board mounting screws, and I couldn't get it to quit working any longer. I had the tuner and amp grounded through jumpers, and when I touched one of the jumpers, the radio made some noises. I moved the jumper around, and I found that it had a hard time making to the case. I took my original amplifier and with my Dremmel, I cleaned the coating off a small spot on the case, and then soldered a wire to the case of both the amp. and the tuner. I put a terminal on the other end (also soldered) and then used the mounting bolt to connect to the bike frame. Previously I'd added another ground wire to a different bolt on the frame. It's been great for the last week. I don't know for sure if the replacement is fixed, but as long as my original setup works, I'm happy. Did you know that there are 2 different radios in First Gens? The replacement tuner and amp. had part numbers that were lower than my original(replacement amp 26H-88132-00, orig. is -01----replacement tuner 26H88132-00, orig -02). The high frequency response wasn't as good on the older unit. The replacement came off an 87, and mine is an 89. On the surface, they look identical, so maybe the equalization is the only difference in the amp. I have no idea what's different in the tuner. The replacement tuner wasn't as sensitive on FM as the original, but I figure that's because of alignment. Frank D.
Bob Myers Posted September 8, 2012 #70 Posted September 8, 2012 One audio injection point IS the cassette input lines. when the radio is on and you inject audio into the cassette lines you get that audio out the speakers. Making a small "mixer" to match impedance and levels and a GPS or Radar detector can inject their audio into the FM radio/Ipod audio. That is very interesting. I had read this way back when you first posted and then again today. Man I'm glad i did! I'm putting a fully operational (been using it as an APRS)2m radio in the trunk and had jacked around building all sorts of complicated combinig devices that worked great, sometimes. This will be the ultimat point of insertion for my receive audio. Any idea what tha color code on these wires and impedance input needs to be? "I think"(famous last words before the smoke comes out) I have the mic input cleared up using input to CB paralleled for the Alinco.
frankd Posted September 9, 2012 #71 Posted September 9, 2012 Here is the cassette color code that Tim wrote about in June of 2009 in this post. White - 12V Gray - Enable Radio (connect to the White wire to make radio work. Black - Audio common Brown - Audio Left Blue - Audio Right Red - 6Volts -- Unknown use but a good source for the voltage needed to trip the CB mute Yellow -- Unknown green -- Unknown The impedance of these inputs is problaby 50 Kohm, and it'll take about .5 VAC to drive the amps. Wouldn't it be better to use the CB input/output from the amplifier module?? That would let your PTT on you handlebar work (and also the helmet mics and spkrs.) The PTT line gets grounded when you push the button, so that should be the same as the Icom. Or did you want to preserve the 11 Mtr rig? Frank D. KA9J
Bob Myers Posted September 9, 2012 #72 Posted September 9, 2012 Actually I have no desire to delete the CB, at this time. It still has some use in the right circumstances. Wife and I use 2m for bike to bike, on our Vulcans. I put an APRS setup on the Venture so she can keep up with me when I trek off alone, but I'm finding that no matter what I do to the Vulcan, no matter how much "better" I make it that there will never be a comparison to the Venture so making the Venture my primary ride will entail adding the 2m transceiver capabilities. If I inject the 2m audio in the "mystery pin" it goes into the amp and is sent into all outlets just like radio/CB/Intercom. At a reasonable level too I may add, at about 50% of full volume the 2m audio is about .7v, never even tried to impedance match just fed it direct from 8ohm output jack . Since only time I'll be using it as a 2 way is when she isn't on there with me, and at time I have no use for the intercom I had considered poking the audio in there since it mutes the radio too. Problem there is it is delayed a short time before radio mutes and external audio can be heard. WOuld be a easy way to pick up mic too though, eh? Thank you for pointing to the early part where pinout was given, I wrote it down in a notebook and when i went to find the notebook it was gone. Further thoughts?
frankd Posted September 9, 2012 #73 Posted September 9, 2012 I agree the CB has it's uses, so I wouldn't want to eliminate mine either. In 2 weeks we've got a long trip planned with another bike and the CB is great for that. Seeing that your 2mtr. rig is in the back, yes, the passenger intercom plug might be a good way to get the audio from the bike to the rig (both TX & RX). There is a plug under the seat that goes to the rear intercom panel. You could make a 'Y' plug and then the 2 mtr rig could be used even when the passenger intercom is being used. For the TX audio, you will need an attenuator, and also may have to change the equalization, but you will have to see how it sounds. I think I might break the bike PTT wire to the CB, and insert a double pole switch to change the PTT between the CB and the 2 mtr rig. Then I would look into how the tx audio gets into the CB and see if I could use that for the 2mtr. rig. That would mean running a shielded cable to the 2 mtr rig from the front of the bike. I would try some of that small diameter RF cable because the shielding is better than audio cable and the capacitance is lower. To avoid the missed audio caused by using the intercom to get the RX audio into the bike, I do have an idea for a circuit I've been planning on building to get the GPS audio to mute the FM radio when the lady in the GPS talks (and also input the GPS audio to the bike system). The CB rx audio mutes the FM radio when the CB is unsquelched. I think that Tim talked about how this was done earlier in this message, but basically the CB squelch circuit has to provide a DC signal to switch the FM radio on and off. It probably pulls a DC level provided by the radio to ground when the CB is unsquelched. If you took an OP amp, then rectified and filtered it's output you would have a DC signal present when there was audio input. Take this DC signal and create a circuit to pull the DC signal down from the bike audio system that will cause it to turn the FM off and open the audio input from the CB. Then you could parallel the RX audio from the 2 mtr. rig and the CB. Then audio from the 2 mtr rig could be heard over the bikes system. If you kept the gain high on the added op amp, the 'click' of the 2mtr RX audio coming on would switch the FM rig off. If this isn't enough, you could add a PL tone, even though you are using simplex.---that'd do it for sure. You would have to size the filter you use for this circuit so that it switches back to FM after a proper delay and doesn't switch between words or stay switched for a long time. Frank KA9J
Bob Myers Posted September 9, 2012 #74 Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) I like the way you think! I had not thought about doing a Y plug and plugging it in at the passenger post. I had considered running a shielded set all the way to the left control pad. As I understand the present circuit, a signal of 3 to 5 volts is applied to the center pin(at the plug on the bac of the CB) to mute the radio, then the CB audio is presented unchallenged. An op amp could be configured to turn on when an audio is detected from the 2m and deliver a signal to either the amp to mute or to a relay to provide a full siganl to mute. Not having played with an op amp in many years can one today deliver a 3 or 4 volt signal at a possible 250 milliamp potential? Wonder how much current is really needed? I'll do some experimenting today, I think there is a box here with some 555's in it and possibly Radio Shack will have an electronic relay on the shelf. Edited September 9, 2012 by Bob Myers
roehlerich Posted September 11, 2012 #75 Posted September 11, 2012 I am new to the Venture riders and working on a weird audio issue. I just went and bought 100W expensive speakers and still have the same issue. I have a distortion noise regardless of source. The volume is very loud and the bass makes the noise worse. It sounded like busted speakers, that is why I bought them new. I just got the bike last week. 1985 model. Also, my AM/FM switch does not work but when I turn the radio on and off it sometime changes from AM to FM. The tuning controls on the handlebar work. Any idea what might be distorting the audio (crackeling like ripped speakers). And what can I do about it? It is not RPM specific. It is always there. Thanks
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