MiCarl Posted May 7, 2009 #26 Posted May 7, 2009 Oh, one more thing. I'd sure like to be able to put a 1/8" mono jack in the amplifier case that would let me hook in the audio from a NAV system and have it behave like a 3rd mic on the intercom. If you come up with that solution in your investigations I'd sure like to know about it.
timgray Posted May 8, 2009 Author #27 Posted May 8, 2009 nope. Cassette in can not exceed 1Volt as it's line level signal levels. a car stereo typically runs at 12 volts to 35 volts (for high end) out the speakers and will smoke the amplifier and other parts if you connected the speaker out into the cassette in lines. line level out of a car stereo ( that has line level outputs) will work into the casette in lines. but that would be overkill. as for the nav input to intercom.. cant do a third, I do think I can make it override the back seat's intercom to talk to you. Basically a circuit that when it has audio it will cut out the rear set mic and inject the nav audio in. I need to get a fully working system together to start working on those modifications. I may also be able to inject it into the CB audio lines...
MiCarl Posted May 8, 2009 #28 Posted May 8, 2009 (edited) Yeah, I was referring to a radio with line out. Not sure why anyone would want to replace the stock radio unless he was trying to pick up CD, MP3 or builtin SAT. On the NAV thing then, perhaps it makes more sense to piggyback it on the CB input? Edited May 8, 2009 by MiCarl
timgray Posted May 12, 2009 Author #29 Posted May 12, 2009 Ok, I have a working amplifier module courtesy of fleabay. Ran the setup at 50% volume for 3 hours last night on the dining room table.. Wife was NOT happy. If you have a problem with the audio fading out after a while I have the same problem with the 1st amp I have. I'll be tearing into it and identifying the part that has failed, I'm pretty sure it's the amplifier Chip insidde and I really hope they are still available. A lot of semiconductors have been discontinued from the 80's-90's. I did notice one major thing though. a Lot of guys are trying to seal up the radios better with silicone. This does not help at all, in fact it causes problems because it causes bad connections and traps moisture, dielectric grease for electric contacts is what you need to use, not the stuff you caulk your windows with. I fixed a radio module by spending an afternooon scraping the silicone from all the tiny pins in the connector.
Dano Posted May 12, 2009 #30 Posted May 12, 2009 Hope you can help. My factory radio (purchased and installed by me) has a mostly intermittent right speaker. I know it's the big blue connector for speaker output, as I can pull everything out, plug in the connector and it works. I tried shimming up the connector in the bucket to make a tighter connection when installed, but it's a crap shoot as to whether it works or not. Also, would like to make up a cable from CB to amp, got a factory cb without the harness. Or should I just go with a J&M? How much are they? Gettin' tired of yelling at these guys when we're on a ride! GREAT thread here guys, keep it going! Dan--- who is a Master Electrician but can't figure out those little circuits and gizmos!!!!
timgray Posted May 12, 2009 Author #31 Posted May 12, 2009 J&M CB's are insanely expensive They must be made from solid gold, $256 for their base model. As for the cable from CB to amp, I would hope it's ping for pin so buy a couple of 6 pin din connectors and wire them up pin for pin. I don't have a CB to pin-out to verify this. If you can plug it in and it works but when seated in the bike it does not, carefully tighten the spring contacts in the mating big blue plug. Use a straight pin and very VERY carefully bend them back. Also spray the connectors down with contact cleaner then rub them with a q-tip. I got a lot of tarnish off of the one I had to dig silicone out of. You might have a broken wire that when everything is bolted down is bending and not making contact. NOTE: the big blue connector with the 20 or so pins is not speaker out but power and control to the FM radio control head. FM radio audio goes through the black wire that plugs in to the din plugs next to the headset and CB plugs. The actual speaker out is the big white snap lock connector with the red,blue,yellow,orange and 4 black with striped wires. the black wires with the yellow and white stripes are the actual speaker-out wiring that goes to the fairing speakers.
Dano Posted May 12, 2009 #32 Posted May 12, 2009 Thanks Tim, will check this out tonight when I get a chance to take it apart. What would be proper cable for the jumper? Twisted pair or? Dan
timgray Posted May 12, 2009 Author #33 Posted May 12, 2009 shielded multi cable. 5 conductor plus drain 22awg wire with a braided and foil shield around it all. That's the proper wire. You might get away with twisted pair but it will allow electrical noise to get in there.
timgray Posted June 4, 2009 Author #34 Posted June 4, 2009 Finally got time to get back to the project. On the cable that goes to the Cassette player. White - 12V Gray - Enable Radio (connect to the White wire to make radio work. Black - Audio common Brown - Audio Left Blue - Audio Right Red - 6Volts -- Unknown use but a good source for the voltage needed to trip the CB mute Yellow -- Unknown green -- Unknown I did this instead of a connector because the 8 pin din connectors and cables are near impossible to find, and If I'm never going to put a cassette back in, Chop off the connector and use my own connections. I recommend always using 100uf capacitors in line for interfacing to any audio gear. it will remove any DC bias that the equipment might have. When things get going more I'll be making up some schematics and drawings. I will be wiring to two headphone jacks. 1 for the switch to enable the MP3 player/Radio switching and the other for audio. Easy to get parts, and I can still disassemble everything. Next up -- Interfacing el-cheapo Midland helmet headsets to the intercom. $30.00 each is far FAR cheaper than even the cheapest J&M headset. I think I can use the 6V signal here to power the Midland microphones as they are electre instead of dynamic.
RedRocket Posted June 4, 2009 #35 Posted June 4, 2009 I just put new speakers in my 88 Royale, and now I have to turn the volume WAAAY up in order to hear it now.
Rocket Posted June 5, 2009 #36 Posted June 5, 2009 J&M CB's are insanely expensive They must be made from solid gold, $256 for their base model. As for the cable from CB to amp, I would hope it's ping for pin so buy a couple of 6 pin din connectors and wire them up pin for pin. I don't have a CB to pin-out to verify this. Not as bad cost wise, as trying to find all the goodies needed, to put in a Mk2 cb radio. As for the J&M cb2003 (Solo) pinout, I have it here. I asked the President of J&M for the info & had received it. I had also ordered a few, right angle 6 pin DIN plugs, from Digi-key. Now to get around to ordering the cb & antenna ect. So, here the J&M cb pinout.......
timgray Posted June 5, 2009 Author #37 Posted June 5, 2009 I just put new speakers in my 88 Royale, and now I have to turn the volume WAAAY up in order to hear it now. What did you use for speakers? I have Pyle and some "roadmaster" ones here and they crank really loud on the stock amp. You might have bought a set that do not have a high sensitivity.
WilCruise Posted June 5, 2009 #38 Posted June 5, 2009 I have a few pieces that will be at Dons tomorrow - there for the taking for a contribution to the donation jar. Have a few others at home if you still want them. If so send me a PM next week and I'll dig them out.
RedRocket Posted June 5, 2009 #39 Posted June 5, 2009 What did you use for speakers? I have Pyle and some "roadmaster" ones here and they crank really loud on the stock amp. You might have bought a set that do not have a high sensitivity. Pyle plx32
timgray Posted June 7, 2009 Author #40 Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) My troubleshooting and wiring documentation will be slowed down for a bit. Yesterday I was working on the radio/amp and the positive lead from the power slipped off and hit the speaker right on a bare wire. I blew out the left audio channel. I was so angry at myself I opened the amp and discovered a major flaw in the Amplifier design. The Speaker wires run directly from the speakers to the output of the amplifier chips in the unit. No filtering, fuses, or protection. This makes it very easy to fry your amp if your speakers go bad. I am already in search of new parts to put in place to fix the AMP, a Toshiba TA7227P for headphones. Toshiba TA7237P for the speakers, they are discontinued but are available in the old electronics supply line, I am trying to find a supply of them so that the amps can be repaired in the future as well. Some interesting info though... Headphones has their own amplifier system. Killing the amp for the dash speaker did not kill the headphones. Headphones have a 5.5 Watt amp, Speakers use 2 to give it 17 watts per side. (Stronger amp chips for speakers. Headphones do NOT have protection on the amp line. so you can easily kill the headphone amp if you get a short or power feedback into them I strongly suggest only plugging and unplugging when off to reduce stress load on the amp chip. Photos of the inside of the amplifier module coming soon. I have the datasheets for both of the chips mentioned above. If anyone is interested in the chip information. The main AMP chips are simply a single sheet describing a example circuit, which is what the AMP in our bikes use, almost identically. Side note: The chips have a HORRIBLE audio quality rating, 10%THD at the rated power. Anything above 0.05%THD is considered bad. THD is Total Harmonic Distortion. This is why they sound really bad when cranked way up. They are rated for 4 ohm loads, so any car speaker is good and safe to use on the 1st gens. Simply get something with a good sensitivity. Three-way speakers might bring out some of the distortion though because of the added clarity of the speakers. Edited June 7, 2009 by timgray
timgray Posted June 7, 2009 Author #41 Posted June 7, 2009 Pyle plx32 Those should work fine, the specifications are correct for the type of setup. They did not list a sensitivity for them online though....
RedRocket Posted June 7, 2009 #42 Posted June 7, 2009 Those should work fine, the specifications are correct for the type of setup. They did not list a sensitivity for them online though.... The box lists: 50 watts RMS/100 watts max 4 ohm impedance ( could that be an issue?) freq response 66 - 20k Hz
timgray Posted June 24, 2009 Author #43 Posted June 24, 2009 Well I cant find replacement parts for the Amp Chips unless I buy 1000 of them. So It's cannibalizing the other amp I have that has problems with it. I am still in search of dead or failing radio parts for the 1st gens. I really would like a dead CB unit to take apart to get more info on them. A simple test to see if your amplifier chips are good, take a voltmeter and test ohms between the speaker + and - on a channel. If you get a low reading that goes away to show infinite ohms, it's good. If you get any ohm reading at all it's burned or damaged. This is of course off withno power or speakers attached.
MiCarl Posted June 24, 2009 #44 Posted June 24, 2009 I really would like a dead CB unit to take apart to get more info on them. There are no dead 1st gen CBs. Good ones collect in piles and are a dime a dozen. I've got two working spares. Why don't I send you the one that is missing knobs. If that's not dead enough for you I suppose I could fry it before I send it.......
CrazyHorse Posted June 25, 2009 #45 Posted June 25, 2009 Can one substitute a small modern amp and splice it into the lines?
ddoggma Posted June 25, 2009 #46 Posted June 25, 2009 A bike salvage by me has 2 old Ventures is the yard. I will go look at them again to see if there is anything of use to us. I know one has a hitch, but its rusted. The other has a backrest, but it rough to say the least. I'll have pix......
Yammer Dan Posted June 25, 2009 #47 Posted June 25, 2009 Hitch could be painted. Backrest could be covered. There are NO Dead Yamaha parts!!!
ddoggma Posted June 25, 2009 #48 Posted June 25, 2009 Sir!, Yes! Sir! "There are no dead yamaha parts!" Sir!
dksmith196958 Posted June 25, 2009 #49 Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) after riding to & from hannibal mo in the rain! radio sounds like its not tuned in right (halfstation off?)When we bought the bike last year the twoway stuff was gone.not sure, but we thought it was on it when we first looked at bike in shop torn down.Found prior owner said it was with bike at trade in.still has switch on left grip.also.....hit a large bird(hawk?) yesterday,broke headlightcover,right turn lens,cracked windshield IS it possible it hurt the faring??? Edited June 25, 2009 by dksmith196958
Yammer Dan Posted June 25, 2009 #50 Posted June 25, 2009 Sir!, Yes! Sir! "There are no dead yamaha parts!" Sir! The Warden reads that she would be in my parts room....
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