donations to the site

[Snarley Bill]

just received dons email about the $12.00 dollar a year fee for the site. what a bargain. i always assumed everyone donated to the site on a regular basis as i do. apparently not. don has done alot for all of us members. think of all the fun we have had, and new friends we have made, not to mention all the advice and info we can get 24 hours a day. now don needs our help and i guess what i'm saying is for all those that would like to, dig down and give him a hand. i know there are lots of members that donate, but for those that don't this is a good time to dig down and do it. i'm kind of going over dons head with this post but i figure it is time to give back something to help a really good person that has done alot for us. bill

[Yammer Dan]

just received dons email about the $12.00 dollar a year fee for the site. what a bargain. i always assumed everyone donated to the site on a regular basis as i do. apparently not. don has done alot for all of us members. think of all the fun we have had, and new friends we have made, not to mention all the advice and info we can get 24 hours a day. now don needs our help and i guess what i'm saying is for all those that would like to, dig down and give him a hand. i know there are lots of members that donate, but for those that don't this is a good time to dig down and do it. i'm kind of going over dons head with this post but i figure it is time to give back something to help a really good person that has done alot for us. bill

 

 

[Grandpagak]

right on man !!!!

[buddy]

AMEN......

[Z Factor]

Here is my suggestion.

 

I come to the site occasionally(twice this year including today), and I am sure I represent a small but decent % of the casual visitors. So while I have no problem with the idea of having a paid membership to a club for which you get some benefits, charging for access to the forum may not be the best way to go about it.

 

For the rare forums that charge a fee, they have upgraded features such as expanded email capability, larger avatars, membership level designation, etc., while still allowing anyone interested in using the site access. Most forums also allow advertising to generate revenue to help defer costs(I see a banner so this one must be doing so). The more members online in a given day allow the sites owners to charge more for advertising. However an across the board fee that everyone must pay to log on and participate will deter new people from becoming users of the forum and have a long term negative effect in bringing in new people.

 

So while I have no problem making a personal donation to Don to help him through this rough time, I think having a mandatory, yearly membership to use the forum is a mistake. Yes the proposed yearly cost is low, but many of us already pay multiple yearly membership fees to several clubs(with benefits like a yearly tee shirt, discounts at club events, etc.).

 

I hope this opinion does not ruffle anyones feathers as my goal is not to rain on the parade. I hope it is taken in the spirit in which it is intended, in the hope to find an alternative to the forum usage fee. Maybe a fellow administrator or moderator can send out a site email donation request for Don(which may generate more money anyway), just like those we receive periodically from Don to help other members in need?

I would think many people including myself would support that more.

`

[davecb]

I'm really not gonna say what I think of the above post....Only to myself...:mad:

[Aussie Annie]

I agree with snarley bill, send your subscriptions folks'--I've sent mine all the way from Australia Don has given us a fantastic site-lets' support him now

______________________________________________________________________

never ride faster than your angel can fly

[Bigfoot]

Here is my suggestion.

 

I come to the site occasionally(twice this year including today), and I am sure I represent a small but decent % of the casual visitors. So while I have no problem with the idea of having a paid membership to a club for which you get some benefits, charging for access to the forum may not be the best way to go about it.

 

For the rare forums that charge a fee, they have upgraded features such as expanded email capability, larger avatars, membership level designation, etc., while still allowing anyone interested in using the site access. Most forums also allow advertising to generate revenue to help defer costs(I see a banner so this one must be doing so). The more members online in a given day allow the sites owners to charge more for advertising. However an across the board fee that everyone must pay to log on and participate will deter new people from becoming users of the forum and have a long term negative effect in bringing in new people.

 

So while I have no problem making a personal donation to Don to help him through this rough time, I think having a mandatory, yearly membership to use the forum is a mistake. Yes the proposed yearly cost is low, but many of us already pay multiple yearly membership fees to several clubs(with benefits like a yearly tee shirt, discounts at club events, etc.).

 

I hope this opinion does not ruffle anyones feathers as my goal is not to rain on the parade. I hope it is taken in the spirit in which it is intended, in the hope to find an alternative to the forum usage fee. Maybe a fellow administrator or moderator can send out a site email donation request for Don(which may generate more money anyway), just like those we receive periodically from Don to help other members in need?

I would think many people including myself would support that more.

`

 

I'm not upset with what you've said and I can even understand what you're suggesting. Personally I don't have a problem with Don's new policy since the cost is minimal. One thing I've wondered is why more advertisement is not brought to this site? I realize it could slow down things a little but the added monies coming in can only help improve the site. Just a thought.

[Squidley]

I wont get too involved with this, but I can tell you that Don's decision to charge for this site was not an easy thing for him to do. I can relate to Z factor and Bigfoot as some folks just dont get on here as much as say me. More than likely what will happen is that the tech library will still be openly viewable, but to post and use the rest of the site will have to cost.

Other than help Don directly pay his medical expenses, I believe this is the only practical way to help Don recoup the thousand of hours and monies that he has pumped into this site for the last 5+ years. I can tell you that my money will be in the mail shortly, I know Don will, but I want to thank all you folks for all that you have and will do to help Don out

[MidlifeVenture]

I'm not trying to be a nay sayer but is there someone here that can help Don on the tax side of this by having a subscription he might have gone from having a tax write off to a huge liability this happened to my brother in law this year in a similar type of venture and because of a large influx of money he owes huge taxes. Maybe would have been a way to set up a trust to collect donations to the cause not have a profit making subscription. Hope this was well thought. Had no problem with the idea of subscription I am a payed member now just cause after 10 months I'm addicted to this place. My thoughts are with you Don hope everything goes well.

[maxantinlive.com]

when i found this site i could not believe the cost of membership, all the info,all the connections,all the money i have saved just being a member,and now after a imposed fee,im paying almost the same now as i was when i joined,i like many of you out there would pay alot more to be a member of this honerable club, thanx FREEBIRD.....

[Sylvester]

I am a paid member of this site, now, and proud of it. I joined in January and thoroughly enjoy this site. I am now going to click on the "donate" key. I will be back soon.

[dnBunnie]

Being a moderator myself I really know that a lot of time is needed for maintenance.

When you seek big thank you's and stuff, you should not be a moderator.

Like Don said, the honour is enough.

 

What Z Factor is explaining is understandable. But let us consider this as a chicken and egg situation. 1st contribute and then enjoy privalages mentioned.

 

To put out a donation mail for supporting Don is a good idea too. And maybe it will raise more money. But where does this lead too. There are more unfortunates among us. When they all put out donation mails it will be just spam.

 

But nevertheless now it can be done both. So co-moderator send your support-Don mail.

[RossKean]

This is in relation to the comment posted by Z Factor (above). I have to say that I agree!

 

In terms of current membership, I don't think there are too many regular (or semi-regular) users out there who would have a problem paying the modest $12.00/year cost. The BIG downside is that membership will not grow. "Family" members appreciate the website and will support the service but how many will commit to a new (albeit small) expense without having a chance to visit, "meet" people and check it out. I forsee a declining membership and eventual demise of the site unless there is another way to get some financial support for VentureRider.org.

 

Big wild-assed guess but I would suspect that we have a "hard-core bunch" that represents less than 5% of those who are current members. Perhaps there is another 10% or so who are semi-active. The vast majority of those who have signed up in the past are not currently active and this is the nature of internet forums. While the vocal 5% are optimistically supporting Don's request, I think it may not be enough to make the site self-supporting.

 

If other revenue streams (i.e. advertising) are not going to be at least part of the solution along with freewill donations, I think it will be necessary to grant free trial memberships and/or limited access for prospective members or casual "clickers". Without this, I am afraid the site will be effectively closed to anyone new. I, for one, would never have initially joined if I had been asked for money up front.

 

I sincerely hope that VentureRider will survive and continue to be a great resource for me and hundreds (thousands?) of other owners of these great bikes.

 

Respectfully

 

Ross

 

Edited to add that I hope I am wrong on this. I have no idea how much it will cost to sustain the site but I hope that there is enough to make it worthwhile for Don to continue and hope that sufficient membership is retained to maintain the "critical mass" for the site.

Edited April 14, 2009 by RossKean
Additional thoughts...

[JerryK]

I think Z-factor or anyone who has negative comments should go away to some of the other sights that he says he belongs......Most of us are reacting as a family and doing the right thing.......every family has an *******......and Z-Factor I'm making you are official *******.........Be proud.....every family has one! JerryK:Venture:

[Jethroish]

I think Z-factor or anyone who has negative comments should go away to some of the other sights that he says he belongs......Most of us are reacting as a family and doing the right thing.......every family has an *******......and Z-Factor I'm making you are official *******.........Be proud.....every family has one! JerryK:Venture:

 

 

Boy, I can see this thread getting ugly.

I will say that I understand both side of the arguement. To require $ to access does not directly encourage new members. However, and a regular user, I have no problem paying.

Maybe a compromise such as allowing non-paid members to view only the General message folder. Hopefully they will then realize the wealth of knowledge and deep friendships that exsist here.

Just my 2 bits.

[ronhenry4]

I have made my donation to become a paid member 2 min after I read Don's Email. with out hesitation i now have my paid membership. though i have only been a member here a short time and have donated once or twice before it is a small cost to me for the knowlage i have gained though this site not to mention the friends i have made. and the friends i will make in the future. Thanks Don for a great site and you are in my prayers for a speedy recovery. Ron AKA "Grasshopper"

[BoomerCPO]

just received dons email about the $12.00 dollar a year fee for the site. what a bargain. i always assumed everyone donated to the site on a regular basis as i do. apparently not. don has done alot for all of us members. think of all the fun we have had, and new friends we have made, not to mention all the advice and info we can get 24 hours a day. now don needs our help and i guess what i'm saying is for all those that would like to, dig down and give him a hand. i know there are lots of members that donate, but for those that don't this is a good time to dig down and do it. i'm kind of going over dons head with this post but i figure it is time to give back something to help a really good person that has done alot for us. bill

 

I'm with you 100% on this Bill. Made my donation yesterday as soon as I read Don's post. While there may be a few who object I'd like to believe that most of the members here will gladly contribute to help Don out.

 

Information can be a powerful tool and the info here for our Ventures has certainly proved that. Furthermore, who can put a price on the friendships formed as a result of this Site?

 

Boomer.......who thinks $12 is a real bargain when looking at the grand scheme of things here.

[Redneck]

I think Z-factor or anyone who has negative comments should go away to some of the other sights that he says he belongs......Most of us are reacting as a family and doing the right thing.......every family has an *******......and Z-Factor I'm making you are official *******.........Be proud.....every family has one! JerryK:Venture:

I don't believe the comments were negative he has an opinion and he stated it well. This site has been formed by members suggestions , don has always asked for input from the members and has bent over backwards to cater to our wants and desires. I personaly believe your comments are out of line.

[Freebird]

I have no problem with ZFactors comments. Heck...they pretty much mirror how I feel about it myself. My dream was that this site always be 100% free.

 

I agree with much of what he said and will be looking at ways to offer a free trial membership that will automatically expire at the end of the trial period. Shouldn't be much of a problem to implement.

 

My plan right now is to make the changes to the forum in 30 days. That should give everybody who wishes to join time to do so. Over the next few days and couple of weeks, I will be considering various options.

[Tartan Terror]

Don fact of the matter is that nothing is really Free! It may have been free to us but that means you were paying. I have not problem paying a little and as a matter of fact I paid my dues and donated more! The only other way we can do this guys is to sell Advertising at a fee. Not just post supporting organizations that offer discounts in the banners. Also if you have an Item (Not talking in classifieds) you should pay a vendor fee. That is the only other way. Money has to come from somewhere.

 

 

Don that is a option though. Sell advertising space and they will differ the cost as well

[greg_in_london]

Now we're acting like a family and having a bust up when we should be resolving a problem..

 

Simple fact is that an up front membership will reduce the number of new members.

 

An alternative is to allow guests to post, to ask questions and get advice. If they want to be more a part, they can join and then their name appears and they get avatars and all that (if they want them). Then I suppose that blocking obnoxious guests and spammers will become more of a problem.

 

Trial membership is a pain for many people, whose participaion is likely to grow over time. If their trial has run out before their second visit, will they bother ?

 

Don't get me wrong - I've paid my bit and it wouldn't bother me to pay a little more. I was quite happy to subscribe to Venturers.org when I posted there - BUT their subscription sign up required setting up a permanent mandate for some reason and they had no work around, so I left - Don's doesn't so that's easy enough.

 

For what it's worth, I think that the technical forums, not just the library should be open to all, with a tag under the name stating that a person is a guest or a member, depending on their subscription status. Access to the watering hole etc should be members only.

 

Information as a hook / social benefit.

Easy access to encourage participation with login names so moderation remains effective.

An automated offer of membership after, say, ten posts, twenty logins, whatever.

Membership status clearly visible - so no moaning from non-members is tolerated...

 

Just my suggestion - don't expect everyone to agree.

 

Don - hope things go well. Unfortunately I doubt the fees will go far in adding any support financially.

[Eck]

As Redneck mentioned, this site has always been open for members to share thier opinions and I will now share mine.

 

An annual membership fee request of a mere $12.00

 

If a VR family member here finds that they can not pay their requested $12.00 membership fee because of "economy reasons", I ask them to contact me privately via P-email, and I will see what I can do to pay it for you.

 

I am not a rich man by no means, but I will scrape up that $12.00 some how for someone who is in financial ruins.

 

Oh, did I mention I love this site...........

 

I would now like to suggest the following "as an option" to help raise money for Don going above and beyond his requested $12.00 membership fee, to help him with his upcoming medical expenses and to keep this site above water.

 

Every time there is a meet & eat, lets all pitch in and donate $1.00 and give it to the person who posted and arranged the M&E.

After that M&E takes place this person sends the money collected to Freebird via Pay-pal or through the mail, and posts what they collected.

 

Every person who attends a rally this year, each person dontate's just $1.00 to the person who posted and arranged the rally. That person sends the money to Don,and posts what they collected.

 

One more thought:

Lets have 52 people, one VR member from each state, and this also can include canada and other countries, but one person from each state set up a day benifit ride for some upcoming saturday in your state.

You plan the starting point, all potty / stops, and places to eat.

 

This is a benefit ride for FREEBIRD.. and each person who attends pays $5.00, $10.00 or even $25.00 as an entrance fee to the person who arranged and planned the day event.

That person sends the money to Freebird and posts the amount HIS state collected as a contest between states / countries.

 

The ride you plan can include riding into other neighbouring states, but each state must have its own ride planned by a VR family member.

 

That alone would be 52 planned benifit rides..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Snarley Bill]

i did'nt mean for this thread to turn into a pissing contest. as redneck said every one has a right to an opinion. thats why this site is so neat. i belong to alot of other sites also, but none comes as close to this one as being a tightly knit family. i'm sure don will come up with a fair viable plan, and since he did start and owns the site what he decides should be gospel. you won't find a more fair and square thinking person in the world than don. people who just joined may think they are outsiders and not part of the group. i have been to lots of meets and have put on lots of meets, and i have never seen anyone treated as an outsider. don't let this thread go down hill. this is our site and dons the boss. what ever don decides i don't think the site will ever go south. bill

[loehring]

One of the things I have liked the most about this site was the fact that people are passionate about their bikes and about this group. I see the same thing comming out now. Don you have done an awesome job over the past few years I've been a member and the membership as a whole has really been something. While I know very few of you really I do consider this a family type group. Thank you to everyone who has posted suggestions. I have not read one that was not done with the true heart of keeping this site alive and the family intact while helping the one person who has put so much into this.

 

Like everyone else, I have no problem paying this small fee to be a part of this group but I wonder if it will be enough. While the $12/year may be more than enough to differ the cost of running the site I'm not sure it does enough over the longer term to really help Don and that is what we are talking about. I personally like the advertising idea as something that may be more sustainable and something that will generate more money. If the site became profitable then maybe we could resend the membership fee at a later date.

 

I'm 51 with a 16 year old son. I would love to be riding 30 years from with both of us still members of this group so while I am happy to pay the fee I would really like to see us continue to look for long term strategies.

 

We're all praying for you Don.