Fork oil on front brake disk

[slipstreamer]

I bled the brakes and clutch on on my 84 VR today and took the bike out for a test drive. The right front brake was not working so, I stopped and had a look. I saw that the brake disk was covered in what I think is fork oil. It looks to me like the line that seems to link the brake to the anti dive module has sprung a bit of a leak. This means that my brake pads are shot but, I will also have to replace the faulty line. I have never worked on this area before. I think it going to involve draining the oilf from the forks and draining the brake fluid for the right front brake. Then, there is the clean up of the disk: What is the best thing to clean that with? Also, I have tried to get the dust cover off of the caliper so I can inspect the pads but was not able to get it to budge without damaging it. What is the trick to getting that plastic cover off? Or, am I into something here that I should leave to a qualified mechanic?

[Rick Butler]

Cliff,

 

The cover you speak of should be plastic and just snaps out by squeezing inward and lifting up. And soaking the pads in laquer thinner will release any oil that has penetrated the pad. However after you are finished with your leak, you may see that it's time for new pads?

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[GeorgeS]

Take a close look at the Fork Seals, If the seal is leaking the Fork oil will run down onto the Brake pads. This happened on my 89. Only fix for this is to replace the fork seals.

 

I'm not familiar with the anti dive set up on the 83 and 84 models.

 

If its fork fluid, you should only have to replace the pads. and re bleed the brakes.

[slipstreamer]

Thanks for chiming in Rick and George. If the brake pads are otherwise still serviceable I will have a go at salvaging them with lacquer thinner as you suggest Rick: Didn't know you could do that! I presume the same thing applies to the disK? As for where the fork oil is coming from, I am certain that it is coming from the fitting that goes between the anti-dive and the brakes. There is no fork oil on the lower fork so, I think the fork seals are OK. If I am right could that be brake fluid that is on the disk? Looks and feels more like fork oil though. The reason that I am not absolutely certain about this is because I don't know how the anti-dive system works. Should fork oil be running through that line that connects the brake and the anti-dive unit or is it brake fluid? :confused07:c Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.

[GeorgeS]

Im not sure on the 84's.

 

Anti dive on later models, is different.

 

Check with " Condor " he should know all about your anti dive set up.

[uthpda]

I am pretty sure that the hose between the brakes and the anti drive is brake fluid not fork oil. This explains the bled screw on the anti-drive. If it is brake fluid it would explain why the brake is not working too.

 

If I am wrong I KNOW someone will correct me!

[slipstreamer]

Yes it is brake fluid. I have just returned from a visit with my Venture Mechanic and he has confirmed that the brake line between the anti-dvie and the brake caliper is leaking. I have ordered it from Yamaha and was horrified to discover that a 10" or so brake line could cost $75 CDN / $71.18 USD. He says just remove the caliper and spray the pads and rotor with "Brake Clean", clamp the line running to the brake lever so as not to lose too much fluid replace the brake line, reassemble and bleed the brakes and the anti-dive. He says that the anti-dive can be difficult to bleed. I guess I am going to find out. Thanks for all your help guys. I will let you know how it all works out but the part will not come in until Wednesday so it will be a few days.

[Rocket]

I am pretty sure that the hose between the brakes and the anti drive is brake fluid not fork oil. This explains the bled screw on the anti-drive. If it is brake fluid it would explain why the brake is not working too.

 

If I am wrong I KNOW someone will correct me!

 

I will jump in & say you got that right...............

[slipstreamer]

Oops, I think I have deceived myself. What I thought was brake fluid on my right front disc I now think is fork oil. The reason that I had thought it was brake fluid is because when I pulled the brake lever bubbles appeared at the fitting on the caliper just below the vinyl cover on the brake line that runs between the caliper and the anti-dive unit. Having cleaned things up and bounced the bike up and down a bit I can clearly see that fork oil is emerging on the upper fork just above the dust cover. There was also a fair amount of fork oil on the back of the fork housing. So, now I am into a different project for which I have no experience and a couple of questions: First, the manaul says to put vinyl tape over the circlip groove when installing the oil seal. Does anyone do that and why? Is it to protect the oil seal from damage by the circlip groove. Second, in the article in the tech libarary about removing and installing forks a picture shows a rubber mallet being using on the front axle. That seems like a better way to remove the forks than by pulling on them. Does anyone do this? Third, there is a picture that shows a couple of fork tools, one looks like a mallet and the other looks like a handle with a half circle attached to one end. What is the latter for? And last, the 84 has a different anti dive unit the 86 and forward. Are there any precautions to take when removing the anti dive unit? Here is hoping I don't get soaked in oil or bonked by a flying spring or worse, break something. Thanks all.

[Black Owl]

Can't answer your question about putting rape over the circlip groove. Personally, I have never done it.

 

As for the tool. That is to seat the seals. You can accomplish the same thing using a section of PCV pipe. Just make sure the end is cut flat otherwise you can end up setting the seal crooked.

 

Also, don't forget to back off the upper pinch bolt before you try taking out the end caps. Makes it muuuuuuuuch easier.

 

The task looks more daunting than it really is.

 

[slipstreamer]

Thanks Black Owl. One more question. I see another tool in the tech library. 23" long with what looks like a socket welded on the end. What is that used for. I also see a photo of tools used for fork seal replacement. In that photo there is a long box wrench with one end at 90 degrees to the shaft. Would you know if that is used for the same purpose as the aforementioned tool? Thanks, Cliff

[Black Owl]

The rod actually has a torque bit on the end of it. Not sure of the size, but probably an 18 or 19 mm. It is used to hold the damper rod to remove (and install) the retainer bold on the bottom of the fork. You can make a tool to secure the damper rod using a 1 inch piece of flat iron filed down to fit inside the torque head of the damper. Or, as I do, use a piece of half inch pipe with a rubber cap to apply pressure to the top of the damper rod.

 

As for the other tool, the 90 degree box end....... haven't got a clue......

 

BTW: You willo need a 17mm allan wreench to remove the end cap. Sears will usually have them in stock if you don't already own one.

 

A less expensive way to go is to buy a set of allan head sockets off E-bay. I know there is at least one set for sale right now which includes the 17mm allen.

 

Do an E-bay search for Virago 1100 and then scan the items for sale. This is where I bought a set two weeks ago. The set also comes with three ratchets. Much cheaper than going to Sears if you have a couple of days to wait.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Ooops, almost forgot. There is a spring clip in the lower fork tube to keep the seal in place. Neither the Circlip nor the spring clip are included with the fork seal set and must be ordered seperately.

 

The best price I have found for the fork seals is Flatout Motorsport http://www.flatoutmotorcycles.com/catalog.asp

[slipstreamer]

Thanks again Black Owl. I am not familiar with torque bits. Would that be the same as a "Torx" bit? Do I need to replace that spring and circlip? Are there other parts that I should order or are most parts in the fork reuseable if I am careful taking things apart? Jeeze I hate being a technoweenie, sorry for all the questions but I hate taking the bike to the shop for something that I can probably do myself with a little effort! Cliff

[Black Owl]

Thanks again Black Owl. I am not familiar with torque bits. Would that be the same as a "Torx" bit? Do I need to replace that spring and circlip? Are there other parts that I should order or are most parts in the fork reuseable if I am careful taking things apart? Jeeze I hate being a technoweenie, sorry for all the questions but I hate taking the bike to the shop for something that I can probably do myself with a little effort! Cliff

 

Same thing. You folks just spell funny... :rotfl:Depending on the condition of the circlip and spring, you could probably get by reusing them. Mamma Yamma recommends using new circlips, but when I did my seals I just used the old ones. I replaced the spring clips because mine were heavily corroded.

 

No problem with the questions. That's how we learn....... Better to ask now rather than having to ask how to correct a screw up later.

[slipstreamer]

I've been trying to respond to a PM from George S and it does not seem to be working so, here is my reply:

 

GeorgeS ;

Thanks for your input George, I really appreciate it. I am with you on the progressive springs but, I started this project with the intention of selling my 84. So, not sure what I am going to do about that. If I decide to keep it and start riding again I will definitely go that route. I had progressives on my 93 and they make a huge difference. My 84 has 70k Kms or about 42K miles.

 

I have printed your item on Fork repairs from Venture Rider.Org, it is awesome. I also love your photos but, I will have some questions to ask later about what a few of them mean. The idea of pounding the forks off with a rubber mallet sounds like a particularly useful idea.

 

Anyway, I need to nail down the parts list and I am having some difficulty relating the terminology that you are using with the parts list terminology so I can order the right things. If you could refer me to a part reference number, 1,2,3 .........74 etc and the associated name on the Ronnies parts list it would be most helpful. I need the numbers for the upper slide bush (split bushing); The lower guide bush (split bushing);

and the specific "O" ring numbers for the Fork caps. I think the O rings for the 83-85 anti dive will be straight forward.

 

I will get back to you with more questions about your pictures on changing for seals as I get into the project. Right now I just need to get the parts ordered.

 

Thanks a ton for your help.

 

Cliff

[GeorgeS]

All the parts you need are shown in the maintenance section that " Freebird " posted.

 

I only added the photo's after I did the job, and Freebird added them to the Original article.

 

IPC. For the IPC go to Yamaha official web site,

 

http://www.starmotorcycles.com/

 

click on " parts and service" upper center.

 

click on ' view parts catalog,

 

proceed to parts catalog,

 

then type in your model and year.

 

Complete parts catalog with parts break down is there.

 

Almost all dealers will have access to this on their web site's so you

can order the parts.

[slipstreamer]

Thanks George.

 

I have both the 1200 and 1300 service manuals. I was just trying to follow what you were saying and relate it to the parts catalogue. I use the ones on the Ronnies link: They are all the same. It is OK, I think I have enough information to go on now with much thanks to Freebird and those who have contributed here. If all else fails I have a local Venture/VMax tech that I can consult. Thanks for your help.

[Locomotive]

If you have a Harbor Freight close to you you can buy a set of allen head sockets which will have a 17 mm in 1/2 inch drive. This set costs around 13.00 dollars and it works awesome. I bought a set when i did my seals. You can also order them online from harbor freight. You will need an impact wrench also to remove the lower nut on the forks. It is not hard to do but an impact wrench is essential. I installed a set of lifetime warranty seals in my bike and i was able to tap them in place with a centerpunch but it would be much faster if you make a tool to tap them in place with. I had no results when i used a rubber mallet to remove the lower forks instead i used a sledge hammer and a piece of board to remove the lower forks. Place the board on top of the axle, grasp the handle close to the head of the hammer and hit the board with solid blows. I was able to remove my forks fast with that method. Good Luck,

[slipstreamer]

Thanks for your input John. I have the Allen head socket set and the impact wrench. The sledge hammer on a piece of 2 x 6 sounds like the answer for removing the lower forks. What tool did you use to hold the damper rod when you removed the nut at the bottom of the forks? I think the 11/2 in ABS recommendation sounds like a good option for seating the seal. What parts did you find it necessary to replace when you did your seals? Where did you get your lifetime warranty seals? I have ordered seals from Yamaha??

[Locomotive]

Got the seals from mawonline.com but factory seals will work and should last for many years. I was lucky as the nut came right off the bottom of the forks. I like the abs idea, I would have tried it but i didnt have a piece handy so i did it the hard way. I only had to replace the seals, everything else was good including the circlips. I did replace the factory springs with progressives. I cleaned up the lower forks in my kitchen sink. Dishwashing soap removes brakedust fast. Just put on the soap, scrub and rinse. Cleaned out the inside of the forks while i was at it. The fork oil was very dark and was most likely origional and it had a bit of junk floating around so i flushed the forks for good measure. I replaced the fork oil with 10 wt Bel Ray. I put on a new set of brake pads and now Im riding. My wife was not happy to see me using the kitchen sink to clean up my lower forks but i had to do what a man does with his wife in that situation. I CUT A DEAL. I told her that when i was done fixing the bike I would take her out shopping to get some lingerie and leather so she would look soooo hot on MY bike and it would be good for the marriage also. After a few minutes of her laughing and saying words like dreaming, fantasy and so fourth she reminded me after years of marriage and all the children there was no way she was going out like that in public. OK so deal 2 was we would ride the bike to a favorite steakhouse an hour away and have dinner. DEAL!!!

[slipstreamer]

You're a smooth talker John. You get two hours on the bike and dinner and she's happy! Do you sell snake oil by any chance?

 

How much difference did your progessives make to your ride?

 

Anyway, thanks for the breakdown on your fork-seal change that is very helpful. I don't think I will get away with using the kitchen sink though.

 

Cheers, Cliff

[Rocket]

Thanks for your input John. I have the Allen head socket set and the impact wrench.

 

What tool did you use to hold the damper rod when you removed the nut at the bottom of the forks? I think the 11/2 in ABS recommendation sounds like a good option for seating the seal.

 

For re-assembly, I use a 15/16 bolt & nut (to hold the rod to a socket) on the top of the damper rod, as I use a ratchet on the bottom end bolt. For tear down, I use the 10MM allen head socket & air impact to remove the bottom bolt, with nothing up at top end of rod.

 

I get to change out both my upper tubes soon & new bushings too.

[slipstreamer]

Thanks for the input Paul. can't quite visualize how that 15/16 bolt and nut work but will no doubt see it when I get into it. What's up with your forks that the uppers need changing and why the bushings? The uninitiated need to know these things.

 

Take it easy on the Malahat by the way. I ran that daily for about six weeks when Ellen was in the hospital for brain surgery in 84 and we were living in Nanaimo.

[slipstreamer]

Well now I'm in a real pickle. The bolt on the bottom of the right front fork is stripped. I used a 10 mm socket on my impact wrench as prescribed. The left front bolt came out OK but the bolt got stuck on the bit and I had to tap it off with a hammer and cold chisel. when I had a closer look I can see that the socket wiggles a little bit in the Alan bolt heat. From that I am assuming that the 10 mm Alan socket is slightly to small for the job. The Yamaha special tool must be a 10.5 mm or maybe even 11 mm. Anyway that is why the right front is stripped now. What does one do to get that bolt out?

[Squeeze]

Hi, i'm really sorry for you. I've never seen a 11mm Allen Key. Maybe your Socket is worn ?

 

 

As for how do i get that $%/§(")$=)Bolt out ?

 

Take a Torx Drive Socket, choose a slightly bigger One, maybe a TX 25(?) or a TX 30(?) and hammer it into the stripped Allen Head Bolt.

 

Now, with a Lot of Pressure towards the Bolt, open it with one nice and crisp Turn.