SilvrT Posted March 19, 2009 #176 Posted March 19, 2009 Ok people I thought I had a good handle on this installation of these gauges, well I just opened up the fairing and shuttered. I'm lost! ! ! Now I've checked the service manual and nothing on how to get at the casset player, do we remove all frame work that holds the radio/head light or just the radio will do. For I don't want to remove more than neccessary if ya know what I mean. Any help would be appriciated.. Un-bolt the Amplifier and slide it off to the side (if you're looking towards the bike, it slides out the left). You might have to disconnect the big plugs and some of the other wiring connected to it ... not to worry, they're color coded. There are 4 bolts (2 on each side) of the cassette. They screw into the sides of the cassette thru rubber shock bushings. I believe they're 10mm. Get in there with an extension and take 'em out. On the right there's an electrical "box" (so to speak) that's a bit in the way ... just unhook it and move it to the side. You will have to undo the 2 top screws that hold the headlight on (EDIT...and move the headlight out of the way) so there's room to slide the cassette out. Undo the two little screws at the bottom front of the cassette. You will have to wiggle and jiggle a bit to get the cassette door to clear as you're pulling the cassette backwards and out. (EDIT... no YOU don't wiggle and jiggle... you do that TO the cassette! ) hope this helps.
Guest Lightnen Posted March 19, 2009 #177 Posted March 19, 2009 Un-bolt the Amplifier and slide it off to the side (if you're looking towards the bike, it slides out the left). You might have to disconnect the big plugs and some of the other wiring connected to it ... not to worry, they're color coded. (EDIT... no YOU don't wiggle and jiggle... you do that TO the cassette! ) hope this helps. Yup the info sure helped, got casset out with no problem "Os".. Just hope rest of installation go's as smooth now.. LOL.. Thanks for the help, tip sure came in handy..
SilvrT Posted March 19, 2009 #178 Posted March 19, 2009 Yup the info sure helped, got casset out with no problem "Os".. Just hope rest of installation go's as smooth now.. LOL.. Thanks for the help, tip sure came in handy.. Always willing to assist (sometimes I even know what I'm talking about LOL) Not sure your plans for attaching/affixing the gauge cluster faceplate but I used 2 of the little screws that came with the kit and ran them thru 2 holes I drilled and into the plastic part of the dash (if U look at my earlier post with the pics). I drilled the holes into the faceplate just a tad bigger than the screws and then used a smaller bit to put a couple "pilot" holes into the plastic. ... seems to be tight enuf but then again, I haven't ridden anywhere yet. Probably not the most solid method but I have plans to use small metal screw clips similar to those inside the fairing where the screws go into later on. Should also mention that I cut off the top mounting flange on the faceplate using a cutting wheel on my high-speed grinder. I held the plate steady in a wood vise with the lip resting on the edge of the wood and cut thru the metal. Then I filed the edge smooth.
Guest Lightnen Posted March 23, 2009 #179 Posted March 23, 2009 Thought I'd post an after thought about installing the Amp Gauge. If some of you fellow's are following VGoose's guide I'm sure your having problems soldering the 10 gauge wires together (or maybe it was just me) anyways I found away around this. Went into Hardware store to the electrical section there you should find box wire connectors (copper) I picked up two of these little gems when home I removed the tab and just used the ovel screw connector worked slick, then covered everything with Rubber double faced tape. These connectors I've seen used in electrical box's for grounding wires so if soldering is not your thing check these out..
SilvrT Posted March 23, 2009 #180 Posted March 23, 2009 Thought I'd post an after thought about installing the Amp Gauge. If some of you fellow's are following VGoose's guide I'm sure your having problems soldering the 10 gauge wires together (or maybe it was just me) anyways I found away around this. Went into Hardware store to the electrical section there you should find box wire connectors (copper) I picked up two of these little gems when home I removed the tab and just used the ovel screw connector worked slick, then covered everything with Rubber double faced tape. These connectors I've seen used in electrical box's for grounding wires so if soldering is not your thing check these out.. Years ago I worked in a heavy truck mfg plant. I recall watching one of the guys on the line soldering wires together for something. Basically he had a "hot pot" of molten solder and he'd just dip the wire into it. Of course, he'd twist them together and dip them into some flux first. Soldering them will ensure a strong and complete join, not to mention make it harder for corrosion to get inbetween the "crimped" wires.
Ponch Posted March 23, 2009 #181 Posted March 23, 2009 Years ago I worked in a heavy truck mfg plant. I recall watching one of the guys on the line soldering wires together for something. Basically he had a "hot pot" of molten solder and he'd just dip the wire into it. Of course, he'd twist them together and dip them into some flux first. Soldering them will ensure a strong and complete join, not to mention make it harder for corrosion to get inbetween the "crimped" wires. If you're installing the ammeter in the main circuit, you might want to solder. The entire electrical load of the bike goes through those connections. I'm afraid that over time and with the vibration involved, a screw type conection will not survive as well. With solder, the entire connection is solid. With a clamp, it is probably not as solid. What I do with crimp on connections is: Solder the wire first, slide on the terminal, crimp the terminal end onto the wire (minus the insulation) and then solder the joint. Works pretty well. Ponch
V7Goose Posted March 24, 2009 #182 Posted March 24, 2009 Thought I'd post an after thought about installing the Amp Gauge. If some of you fellow's are following VGoose's guide I'm sure your having problems soldering the 10 gauge wires together (or maybe it was just me) anyways I found away around this. Went into Hardware store to the electrical section there you should find box wire connectors (copper) I picked up two of these little gems when home I removed the tab and just used the ovel screw connector worked slick, then covered everything with Rubber double faced tape. These connectors I've seen used in electrical box's for grounding wires so if soldering is not your thing check these out.. I understand your problem. 10 AWG wire is large and sucks up lots of heat - if you try to solder two of them together, that sucks up twice a much heat. You need a good soldering gun to do this. If you can't provie enough heat, the wire sucks it all away before it melts the solder. If you have problems and want to use a crimp connection, I suggest you at least tin the individual wires first (tinning is coating the wire in solder so the individual strands are stuck together). The only solution to this problem is to find a soldering iron or gun that puts out enough heat to do the job. Goose
Guest Lightnen Posted March 24, 2009 #183 Posted March 24, 2009 Ok.. I know what you fellows are saying. I'll see if I can find a better soldering gun, if not I'll do what goose mentioned is tin the ends (one set is already done) maybe try to drop/melt some solder down into the crimped connection afterwards. And here I thought I was almost done. LOL While I think of it, can anyone tell me what colour of wire for the dash lights I will be soldering them in today, was milling around in the dash wireing but didn't seem to find the right one..
SilvrT Posted March 24, 2009 #184 Posted March 24, 2009 I've installed the mechanical water temp as per instructions but am still getting a small "weeping" leak where the modified fitting (using the spark plug fouler to re-form the threads trick) screws into the head. It seems the gasket from the fouler isn't sealing completely. I've put pipe thread sealer on the threads and tightened it down pretty good but maybe not enough...but, I'm afraid to strip the threads on the head. Just how tight can I go with this thing? I'm on the second washer...when I pulled it out the first time (to fix the leak), it seemed the washer was distorted and obvioulsy not seating properly. Maybe that's the same issue with the second washer..?? Maybe a different washer would work better? Any thoughts / suggestions guys?
Freebird Posted March 24, 2009 #185 Posted March 24, 2009 One thing I forgot to mention on mine. On the adapter that I bought, the hex shape for the wrench to fit on to tighten it went all the way down. It was hitting the raised edge around the threaded hole where you screw it in. I used my bench grinder to grind it smooth to about a half inch up so that it did not hit the raised rim. This allowed it to tighten down completely without hitting. I think my adapter was a different brand than the one that Goose bought and yours may be like his and this may not be necessary. After grinding it though and then using Permatex thread sealer and the washer from the non-foul adapter, I had no leaks at all. I got it pretty tight. Should have used a torque wrench so I could report how tight I tightened it but didn't do so, sorry.
jlh3rd Posted March 24, 2009 Author #186 Posted March 24, 2009 silvrt after a few runs last week...i noticed mine was leaking also, at the head.....so i took off the fouler and discovered that the crush gasket was distorted...i don't know how that happened ..........about 1/4 of it was not crushed all the way, as if it had moved. i removed the crush gasket and put an 0-ring on it.....that has worked so far
SilvrT Posted March 24, 2009 #187 Posted March 24, 2009 I used this part from Freebird's writeup on installing the gauges... "you will need to purchase a brass ½” tube to ½” female pipe adaptor (I got mine at Lowes, Watts part number A-218)" I notice that the edge that mates up with the gasket is slightly beveled and the washer off the non-fouler is not a tight fit and I think that is why this particular washer has a tendency to "distort" as it's being compressed. silvrt after a few runs last week...i noticed mine was leaking also, at the head.....so i took off the fouler and discovered that the crush gasket was distorted...i don't know how that happened ..........about 1/4 of it was not crushed all the way, as if it had moved. i removed the crush gasket and put an 0-ring on it.....that has worked so far What kind of O-ring did you use? I'm wondering if there's an adapter similar to the A-218 that has a flat mating surface? I will admit tho that the coolant "weeping" is extremely minimal. I put on about 200 km's on Sunday after re-installing the washer and re-tightening it and the green coolant was just slightly visible around the lower edge of the fitting where it meets the gasket and the head and it wasn't over-filling the edge to the point that it would spill over (which it was doing the first time around).
jlh3rd Posted March 24, 2009 Author #188 Posted March 24, 2009 i wish i could give you an exact size, i know you can get bulk 0-ring packs with multiple sizes and that's what i had.....the o-ring i used was snug against the threads when i rolled it on which made it fit real good in the gasket part of the fouler. if you've read all the posts with this thread, you will see that i spent a lot of time and money looking for other adapters and they are out there, but for different reasons, they don't work......and now ,like you , i've had a problem with the fouler gasket......the brass 18mm adapter from egauges you can't get a wrench or socket on because of the raised shoulder but it uses an 0-ring..........the 18mm adapter from hydraulic hose metal/rubber gasket is too big and catches the edge of this raised shoulder........which leaves you with the fouler...and now an 0-ring instead of the crush gasket...... no matter how small a leak, you don't want any leak......get an 0-ring and that should (?) end the problem at least when you snug it down, you can tell when it's tight enough........
SilvrT Posted March 24, 2009 #189 Posted March 24, 2009 i wish i could give you an exact size, i know you can get bulk 0-ring packs with multiple sizes and that's what i had.....the o-ring i used was snug against the threads when i rolled it on which made it fit real good in the gasket part of the fouler. if you've read all the posts with this thread, you will see that i spent a lot of time and money looking for other adapters and they are out there, but for different reasons, they don't work......and now ,like you , i've had a problem with the fouler gasket......the brass 18mm adapter from egauges you can't get a wrench or socket on because of the raised shoulder but it uses an 0-ring..........the 18mm adapter from hydraulic hose metal/rubber gasket is too big and catches the edge of this raised shoulder........which leaves you with the fouler...and now an 0-ring instead of the crush gasket...... no matter how small a leak, you don't want any leak......get an 0-ring and that should (?) end the problem at least when you snug it down, you can tell when it's tight enough........ What about a nylon gasket similar to one used on an oil drain plug? If one fits snug to the threads but is a tad too big for the raised shoulder, then it would be easy to trim it....?? Still concerned tho about just how tight one can crank these things down without concern of stripping the threads in the head. I'm guessing that part of the head is aluminum so my thinking is the aluminum threads would strip rather easy before the threads on the brass fitting...??? yes/no? I'd be totally devastated if I stripped those threads in the head ...!!!
jlh3rd Posted March 24, 2009 Author #190 Posted March 24, 2009 if you could find one to fit...........sure, it should work............i tried to find an 18mm oil drain plug gasket, no dice. 14mm is the biggest.............i had a blister pack of assorted gaskets ( nylon, paper etc.), none fit.....you could drill the hole, make it fit i guess........but why do that, use an 0-ring torque specs.....tried to find the spec for the plug you remove from the head, couldn't find it in the service manual.........i know someone on this site should have a general torque recommendation for the size of bolts........ using the 0-ring ,it was easy to feel the bolt snug up.......i used a 7/8 standard socket with a stuby ratchet.......and had my hand close to the ratchet head...it's a technique i use a lot so that i don't strip something...especially in aluminum threads....... i did not have to wrench the fouler tight, i just snugged it...........
SilvrT Posted March 24, 2009 #191 Posted March 24, 2009 if you could find one to fit...........sure, it should work............i tried to find an 18mm oil drain plug gasket, no dice. 14mm is the biggest.............i had a blister pack of assorted gaskets ( nylon, paper etc.), none fit.....you could drill the hole, make it fit i guess........but why do that, use an 0-ring torque specs.....tried to find the spec for the plug you remove from the head, couldn't find it in the service manual.........i know someone on this site should have a general torque recommendation for the size of bolts........ using the 0-ring ,it was easy to feel the bolt snug up.......i used a 7/8 standard socket with a stuby ratchet.......and had my hand close to the ratchet head...it's a technique i use a lot so that i don't strip something...especially in aluminum threads....... i did not have to wrench the fouler tight, i just snugged it........... THANKS M8T .... I'm gonna go with your advice and I'll let ya know what happens.
V7Goose Posted March 24, 2009 #192 Posted March 24, 2009 Sorry you guys are having problems with a leak - that crush washer from the non-fouler (or any spark plug) is not really intended for sealing liquids, but it worked fine for me. No idea what torque - I just used my calibrated wrist on that. If yours is deforming unevenly, maybe you are cranking on it too hard? Two other suggestions - put a good several wraps of Teflon tape on the upper threads of whatever adaptor you are using. Next, check at an auto parts store or Ace Hardware for copper washers, usually used on oil plugs. The copper is soft and deforms enough to fill any small gaps. Goose
SilvrT Posted March 24, 2009 #193 Posted March 24, 2009 Sorry you guys are having problems with a leak - that crush washer from the non-fouler (or any spark plug) is not really intended for sealing liquids, but it worked fine for me. No idea what torque - I just used my calibrated wrist on that. If yours is deforming unevenly, maybe you are cranking on it too hard? Two other suggestions - put a good several wraps of Teflon tape on the upper threads of whatever adaptor you are using. Next, check at an auto parts store or Ace Hardware for copper washers, usually used on oil plugs. The copper is soft and deforms enough to fill any small gaps. Goose Good idea Goose... now as for that crush washer...seems to me if it will work on a spark plug where the cylinder pressure can be upwards of 150 psi, it should be able to hold back 12-14psi coolant pressure... me thinks it just doesn't seat properly on the tapered (or maybe rounded is a better word) edge of the brass fitting... I believe the actual non-fouler has a flat flange, thus a better seal (similar to a spark plug). I also note that on that particular brass fitting that the area where the washer fits does not have any thread...maybe that has something to do with it as it seems to crush the washer outwards. (I should take a pic of what it looks like when I take it out) Well, I'm going to try the rubber O-ring and at the same time, I'll plaster some pipe thread sealer on the threads. I'll be doing some close inspection of those threads in the head first tho just to ensure they haven't been damaged.
Guest Lightnen Posted March 24, 2009 #194 Posted March 24, 2009 Here is something else you might try to seal the line is a Copper Washer, a good part shop for Trucks (big rigs) should have something in the size. With the copper you need to aneal it first, that is heat it up until it glows red than drop into water really quick this will soffen up the washer and should seal the first time. Just an idea we used at work..
Midrsv Posted March 25, 2009 #195 Posted March 25, 2009 I had the same problem with a leak at the sending unit using the brass re-formed fitting. So I used the adapter from www.egauges.com which was to short to allow me to get a wrench on it and screwed it into the non fouler with pipe compound on all threads and that fixed my leak. There is a photo on the third post of this thread: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33268&highlight=water+temp Dennis
jlh3rd Posted March 25, 2009 Author #196 Posted March 25, 2009 midsrv the leak we're talking about is at the base of the non -fouler......some of us have problems with the crush gasket supplied ........i haven't come across anyone with leaks at the brass adapter or the sending unit...........that i remember anyway....
Midrsv Posted March 25, 2009 #197 Posted March 25, 2009 midsrv the leak we're talking about is at the base of the non -fouler......some of us have problems with the crush gasket supplied ........i haven't come across anyone with leaks at the brass adapter or the sending unit...........that i remember anyway.... I think you're right. I had leaks there too and I attributed part of it to the malformed threads on the brass adapter. By using the non-fouler everything seemed to fit better. It may just have been the pipe compound. Dennis
SilvrT Posted March 25, 2009 #198 Posted March 25, 2009 midsrv the leak we're talking about is at the base of the non -fouler......some of us have problems with the crush gasket supplied ........i haven't come across anyone with leaks at the brass adapter or the sending unit...........that i remember anyway.... Since I am using the mechanical gauge, I don't use the non-fouler for anything other than the re-threading of the brass adapter (Watts # A-218). Maybe I should be using the non-fouler also??? not according to Goose's instructions (or did I read it wrong?).... I think the whole assembly would be too high if I did.
V7Goose Posted March 25, 2009 #199 Posted March 25, 2009 You didn't read it wrong - I just mount the brass adaptor with the newly re-formed metric threads straight in head. I have done several exactly like I described and showed in the instructions and have not had a single leak. The only thing I use is teflon tape on the modified brass adaptor and the sparkplug crush washer from the non-fouler. I don't play magilla gorilla on the socket when I install the adaptor - just snug it up good and then a tad more (1/4 turn max, just like you do with a spark plug). Goose
SilvrT Posted March 25, 2009 #200 Posted March 25, 2009 You didn't read it wrong - I just mount the brass adaptor with the newly re-formed metric threads straight in head. I have done several exactly like I described and showed in the instructions and have not had a single leak. The only thing I use is teflon tape on the modified brass adaptor and the sparkplug crush washer from the non-fouler. I don't play magilla gorilla on the socket when I install the adaptor - just snug it up good and then a tad more (1/4 turn max, just like you do with a spark plug). Goose hmmmmmmmm... that's about what I did the first time... maybe a bit more... second time (with a new gasket) I cranked it (magilla gorilla style ... almost!) ... got less of a leak on second go-round. First time I used teflon tape...second time I used pipe thread sealer. I'm gonna pull it apart this evening and see what's up. (more later)
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