An Electrical puzzler

[Red1]

OK, I assume, you have the New Relay, and are trying to decide which one installed on the bike, is same as the one in your hand ???

 

no - Perhaps I was not clear. Not repeating a $70 mistake was a reference to having already purchased and replaced the side stand switch.

 

I am looking to purchase the part (starter circuit cutoff relay) on-line from BikeBandit and the diagram (the above link) was unclear about identifying the part as the Starter Circuit Cutoff Relay. It only refered to it as "RELAY ASSY, FOR SIDE STAND" along with a diagram and sketch. And since there is no other description of the part (i.e.- 12 pin plug, dimensions, etc.) or it's function or a PICTURE of it - I was not sure if that was the correct part. The numbers on the relay are OEM numbers and are not replacement part stock numbers. In order to compare it with my old one - I'd have to shell out $70 + shipping and I want to be sure it's the correct part before I do that - electrical parts are generally non-returnable.

[V7Goose]

OK, I'm going to go out on a slight limb here and say it is the correct relay, even though it was really stupid of Yamahaha to not use the same name on both the schematic and the parts breakdown! The drawing of the relay looks the same on both, but that doesn't prove anything. However, if the plug matches the schematic, then you can be sure.

 

The plug has rounded corners on one side and a total of 12 pins - 5 on the top row with the rounded corners and 7 on the bottom row. The Lg (light green) wire is the center pin on the bottom row. On one side of the Lg wire is the L/Y (Blue/Yellow) wire, and the other side is a B/Y (black/yellow) wire.

 

Here is another test you can do just to verify your meter and how the diodes should check out. The diode we suspect is bad is between the Lg and L/Y pins, but there is also a diode between the Lg and B/Y pins. With the negative lead of the Ohm meter on the Lg pin and the setting on x10, you should have some measurable resistance with the positive lead on the L/Y AND on B/Y pins. With the leads reversed (the positive lead on Lg), you should have infinite resistance to either of the other pins.

 

You have already said you get infinite resistance both ways between Lg and L/Y, which is consistent with an open diode and the symptoms you are having. If you get a good test of the other diode between Lg and B/Y, then you can be absolutely certain you have the correct relay and that my diagnosis is correct.

 

Assuming now that this diode is bad, you have two options to fix it. The obvious (and most expensive) solution is to just buy a new relay. The $2 fix is to simply solder a new diode outside the relay between the Lg and L/Y wires. I don't know for sure how much current this circuit must handle, so I'd probably just go with a 2A rectifier diode to be safe (but I bet a 1A diode would handle it fine too). You can get one of those at any Radio Shack for about $2. If you want to try that, the actual location of the diode connections is totally unimportant - you can tap into the Lg and L/Y wires anywhere it is convenient. The cathode end of the diode (end with the band or bar on it) MUST be connected to the Lg wire. Other than soldering in the diode, the only other thing you need to do is make sure the diode and wires are completely insulated after you are done. I do not recommend electrical tape for this - it will always come loose from heat after a relatively short time. Either use liquid tape or heat-shrink tubing.

Goose

[GeorgeS]

You seem to be lumping together 2 different relays.

 

Side Stand relay, and Start circuit cut off relay, are two different items.

 

Scroll down to item #41 " Relay assy for side stand P/n 295757-001

 

Or item #37--- " Starter Relay Assy " 45152-001

[V7Goose]

You seem to be lumping together 2 different relays.

 

Side Stand relay, and Start circuit cut off relay, are two different items.

 

Scroll down to item #41 " Relay assy for side stand P/n 295757-001

 

Or item #37--- " Starter Relay Assy " 45152-001

Actually, I think he has the correct one. The Starter Relay you identify is probably for engaging the starter motor, not preventing it from engaging. AFAIK, there is no other relay related to the side stand at all, and the side stand circuit DOES connect to the "Starting circuit cutoff relay" (#11 on the schematic). He can verify it by the information in my post above.

Goose

[Red1]

From your description - I did the test right and on the right relay. So, I'm likely to go for the obvious and most expensive solution - my time is more valuable to me than the money and I'd rather just take it apart 1 more time and swap out the relay.

 

I'm pretty sure it's part #41 as well - I just don't understand why it wasn't named correctly. #37 is the Starter Relay (not the Starter Circuit Cutoff Relay) which looks nothing like the Starter Cutoff Relay and is located behind the passengers L footrest. There's a removal and testing procedure for that one in the Clymer manual as well. But what is #42 - described only as "relay Assy" - no mention of it's purpose at all. It looks a lot like #41 - which doesn't help in the confusion dept.

 

Thanks, Goose for your help. I would not have even known there was a Starter Cutoff Relay where the whole mess came together if you hadn't said something. I'll get the relay and see if that solves the problem. What's another $70+, eh?

[BOO]

I been watching this thread with some interest. Seems strange that this relay went bad at the same time the wires just dropped off the back of the switch.

I haven't looked at the schematic but the relay is just a switch, seems to me you could check that without swapping it out. I know you did some continuity tests but again it's just a switch. I would think you could short it across to check and see if that's really what's causing the problem.

Bottom line here is I'm not much of a "swap it out and see if that fixes it" kind of guy.

To bad you are so far away, we could get that bike in so many pieces it would never go back together.

Good Luck,

BOO

[V7Goose]

I been watching this thread with some interest. Seems strange that this relay went bad at the same time the wires just dropped off the back of the switch.

 

I haven't looked at the schematic but the relay is just a switch, seems to me you could check that without swapping it out. I know you did some continuity tests but again it's just a switch. I would think you could short it across to check and see if that's really what's causing the problem.

 

Bottom line here is I'm not much of a "swap it out and see if that fixes it" kind of guy.

To bad you are so far away, we could get that bike in so many pieces it would never go back together.

 

Good Luck,

 

BOO

You may have been watching the thread, but it doesn't seem like you were watching very closely. The SCR is NOT "just a switch". This was explained in great detail in several posts, particularly #9. In fact, even though the SCR has TWO relays in it, neither one of them is involved with this problem.

Goose

[DragonRider]

Bring to Don's for MD:bang head:............all the gearheads will be there, someone will fix it.........

 

 

I been watching this thread with some interest. Seems strange that this relay went bad at the same time the wires just dropped off the back of the switch.

 

I haven't looked at the schematic but the relay is just a switch, seems to me you could check that without swapping it out. I know you did some continuity tests but again it's just a switch. I would think you could short it across to check and see if that's really what's causing the problem.

 

Bottom line here is I'm not much of a "swap it out and see if that fixes it" kind of guy.

To bad you are so far away, we could get that bike in so many pieces it would never go back together.

 

Good Luck,

 

BOO

[Eck]

Well,

I was going to resolve this problem but ............

I just cant see someone else being named.................... ECK..

[BOO]

You may have been watching the thread, but it doesn't seem like you were watching very closely. The SCR is NOT "just a switch". This was explained in great detail in several posts, particularly #9. In fact, even though the SCR has TWO relays in it, neither one of them is involved with this problem.

Goose

 

Kent,

You are absolutely right I was not watching the thread "very close", I was just skimming through the posts especially #9. I very rarely read a post that is that long. I did go back and read it two or three times, makes sense.

I did read the post Red made verifying what happens during certain combinations of the clutch, kickstand and gear selection. I did find an error there but unimportant.

I have to admit I did not see the post you made about soldering a diode on the external pins of the assembly. That is something I would definitely try.

I did look at my schematic but it appears mine is not as detailed as the one you are using.

The major comment I was trying to make is I don't like swapping things without knowing for sure where the problem lies.

BOO

 

[Red1]

Hey Boo,

Ordinarily I don't like swaping parts out either - mostly because I'm cheap & I don't have a lot of free time - but tracking down an electrical problem is not my strong suit. I'm much more of a wrench guy than a soldering iron guy. I couldn't seem to get any help locally that was any smarter than I was. (How sad is that!) Had I brought this problem to the group sooner, I likely could have saved myself $100. But I have gained at least $100 worth of knowledge on the Starter Circuit Cutoff system!

Hope to see ya 'round again, tell Jane we said HI!

[Badacer]

sorry only just saw this post, I havnt bothered to read threads. I'm pretty sure your problem is the starting circuit cut off relay. A short in the ignition switch will cause this to fry. hope this helps, again sorry for not seeing this earlier

[Red1]

Better late than never, eh? Lord knows so many threads are added every day - I don't think anyone can keep up.

 

I got the part from BikeBandit and #41 is the SCCR - for future reference for anyone who has a similiar moto-disability. It arrived in just 3 days, I haven't had time to install it yet, but has the 12 pin plug just like the old one. So (fingers crossed) it should do the job.

[Red1]

Ba Da BING! That did it - clutch out, side stand down - Vroooommmm! :banana:

Thank you kindly, Goose.

[BOO]

Glad to see you're all set to ride again. Bummer kind of problem.

You da man Goose,

BOO