Harley troubles

[ediddy]

The last time I posted about harley's problems someone left the web site because of harley bashing. I wasn't bashing just giving the facts as reported by several articles including one in the wall street journal. Harley is at a crossroad. When you buy a harley you are getting 60's technology. The older riders are getting to old to ride and the younger riders don't want a bike that looks like their grandfathers bike. A harley dealer told me that the eningeering department wants to get in the 21st century with technology. Can you say water cooled engine. The marketing department is resisting because they think they will lose the die hard harley rider. Harley riders call the vrod a water buffalo or bastard bike. Financing for 10 years is one thing that has gotten harley's bank, Eagle Mark Savings Bank in trouble. The wall street journal report that harely would take a guy making $35,000 per year and sell him a $25,000 bike with 0 down and payments of $350 per month for 84 months. Now harely is repossessing those bikes. Last week a metric dealer told me when they go to the auctions to buy used bikes the auction is flooded with harleys. So much for Harelys holding their value. This week on the harely tech talk web site there was a discussion about harely discontinuing some models and coming out with more water cooled engines. The heat on the touring bikes is caused by leaning the engine to meet epa requirements. Shutting down the back cyclinder at a traffic light is a band aid approach to a major problem. I like the ultra classic and was going to trade my venture for an 09 uc but now I am going to wait and see how the 09's do regarding heat.

[Venturous Randy]

Harley is at a crossroad. When you buy a harley you are getting 60's technology. The older riders are getting to old to ride and the younger riders don't want a bike that looks like their grandfathers bike.

 

Humm, would carburators and cassette tapes be 70's technology on an 09 top of the line bike?

RandyA

[ediddy]

Hey randya,

 

No I was wrong. The harleys have 50's technology. There's more to technology than a carburetor and tape player. If fuel injection is going to cause my bike to run so hot that my passenger can't ride I don't want fi. If I had one side of my brain tied behind me I would know that.

[GeorgeS]

Well, if you own one of the New ones, ( Ultra Classic that is ) Install an Oil Temp Gauge. You will be very surprised at how high the Oil temp goes. !!

 

Gauges are avialable that fit right into the Oil Filler Cap.

 

A good oil cooler will bring the temp down about 40 deg. F.

[sofapilot]

Heres why I dont think a 3rd Gen will look like a Harley. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/StockInvestingTrading/is-harley-davidson-over-the-hill.aspx#pageTopAnchor

 

This ran in the NY TImes and H-D had this response the next day.

 

http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_12036242

[CrazyHorse]

I was wondering the same thing as Condor. I have a friend who just purchased a 2009 Screaming Eagle tourer - and it has something on it where it shuts something off (I'm not mechanically inclined) to prevent the overheating issues they used to have on those bikes.

 

 

They shut down one cylinder at low idle speeds to help heating issues but you can have this programmed out.

[CrazyHorse]

If they came out with a Road Glide with a VRod motor I might consider one. Thier new ABS isnt too bad either better then their first ABS its hidden much better.

[Freebird]

The rider can turn off the rear cylinder as he wishes if he or she is sitting at a stop light, in a parade, etc. The '09's have it where you roll back on the throttle to deactivate the cylinder. Also, there were changes made on the '09 Ultra that I understand drastically reduced the heat felt by the rider and passenger. A new frame design and the re-routing of the exhaust pipes. From what I've heard, it helped a LOT.

[az1103]

.

 

It's why the caddilac cars dont look like the giant boats we all were used to seeing with the caddilac badges. I'd own a CTS in a heartbeat. I'd never be caught dead in a 90's boatmobile from caddilac. but then I'm a young pup... only 40.

 

Be carefull what you wish for the CTS is one of the worst cars GM ever built - It's a real piece of garbage......

[cecdoo]

Somebody must like HD, the stock went from a low of $8 and change to over $16 in a month:fingers-crossed-emo Craig

[az1103]

I am also thinking about buying an Ultra next year. I have had friends (Harley riders) tell me that the Goldwing is the way to go. I just think the Goldwing lacks personality.....what do you guys think?

 

Personally, I think it's silly to talk "personality" when discussing a Harley....They all look the same, year to year, bike to bike, owner to owner.......The only "mystique" I see is that people who speak of being somehow "different" , "individuals", yes even "outlaws" LOL!!!!;

End up all buying the same exact thing, from lookalike bikes to lookalike salad bowl brain baskets........Beats the hell out of me......

[Snarley Bill]

The rider can turn off the rear cylinder as he wishes if he or she is sitting at a stop light, in a parade, etc. The '09's have it where you roll back on the throttle to deactivate the cylinder. Also, there were changes made on the '09 Ultra that I understand drastically reduced the heat felt by the rider and passenger. A new frame design and the re-routing of the exhaust pipes. From what I've heard, it helped a LOT.

don, being a great believer in advanced technology, don't you think it is kind of a half assed way to fix the overheating problem? or should i say archaic, for a bike this expensive to have to run on one cyl..there should be no jury rigging, and it could at the very least have water cooling. i would love to go to work for harley and redesign that motor for them. three things would be on my list of priorities. 1) unit construction, to cut weight and simplify maintenance. 2) water cooling, this would be the easiest improvement. 3) get rid of the three piece crank, and roller rod and main bearings, and go to a full pressure lube system , to improve reliability. the cylinders would have to be off set to do this. i can go along with the archaic push rods cuz they work and are reliable. this engine is an antique design cuz harley is more worried about looks and sound then cost effectiveness and reliability. victory got it right. they basically use the design of the suzuki 1400 intruder v-twin. the harley engine does set the standard for v-twin looks , but looks aren't neccesarily going to get you down the road 200,000 miles. they have been riding this engine design for over a hundred years. i think they have run out of upgrades. it's time to develop a new motor if they want to remain competitive. just my observation of course. bill

[Guest tx2sturgis]

As a long time Harley owner, I can tell you they do get hot...much hotter than anything you will ever experience on a Venture or Royal Star. And were talking about the touring bikes especially, with the lower fairings installed. But they are made to handle it, mechanically.

 

The life of the oil is shortened if you end up in a traffic jam for very long with the engine idling...and I'm not talking about 5 or 10 minutes, although if that happens when its already 110 degrees(air temp), I can tell ya, your right leg (or your females right leg), is gonna cook.

 

There are some products on the market, from Harley and others, that can mitigate this problem, most of them involve whats called a parade fan (around $250), and also, there are some fan cooled oil coolers on the market...but at $500 bucks they aint cheap either.

 

I have not ridden a new 09 bike with the heat management function. I would expect that its a big improvement.

 

Technology is a moving target. Modern Harleys DO have some advanced ( or at least current) technology...throttle by wire, mp3 CD players, built in navigation systems, proximity alarms, EFI, ABS, and a host of other things.

 

But youre still dealing with an air cooled big piston motor, and problems can occur.

 

I for one was waiting for the new frame upgrades on the touring bikes for more than 7 years...If I had $25,000 to drop, I might buy one today. In my corner of the planet, we only see about a month of days that are in the 100 degree range, so the heat issue is normally not that big of a problem. For someone living in Phoenix, Brownsville, or New Orleans, it might be a HUGE problem.

 

As for me, I dont care who rides what, as long as they ride and enjoy.

Edited April 4, 2009 by tx2sturgis

[loehring]

I don't think the classic style is going away any time soon. Look at what the new Kawasaki looks like and Honda sells a lot of VTX's. I don't know what Yamaha will do but I personally like the look of the 2nd Gen. My wife is glad I got the RSV over the Wing as well. She loves the cruiser styling. I'm 51, she's 45 but my son is 15 and all he talkes about is this HD he saw. He has no interest in a crotch rocket and thinks both the Wing and the Victory Vission are "Ugly".

 

One thing that I have always loved about bikes, they are an extension of the rider so there will always be a multitude of styles to choose from because people are so different.

[waterbug]

I do like the looks of the HDs and I love the sound of a twin but when I sat down before I bought the new RSV last yr and talked to dealers and people who owned diffrent bikes I couldnt justify the cost of the HD. I know alot of die hard HD guys and thats fine but they couldnt give me one reason why a HD is better than anything else and why it should cost more alot more. I have alot more room on the RSV for both of us and it is very comfortable to ride the only bad thing is they dont have the stuff for them or the cool wears that HD has but maybe some day they will.