Don't try to push Avons too far

[V7Goose]

I've posted about this before, but this seems like a good time to cover it again, just as a caution.

 

I absolutely love the Avon Venom tires on my RSV - so far, they are the best handling (in all conditions) and best wearing tires I have tested. BUT, there is one thing I have never been happy about - these tires have absolutely NO margin of safety left at the bottom of the tread grooves. When that last hint of tread groove is smoothed off, there is only the barest wisp of rubber film left above the first layer of cord. Yes, we all know that you should never run a tire beyond the tire wear indicators, but I sure would like a little extra security under there anyway!

 

Case in point is my recent trip around the Texas border. I had close to 10,000 miles on the rear tire before I left, and it still looked real good. I usually get 14,000 - 15,000 from an Avon rear tire, so I thought I had enough to make the trip; however, I also watched it carefully every day. We hit some really rough road surfaces in places that felt like riding on a cheese grater, and those did take their toll; however, all still looked safe Saturday morning when I headed out from Squire Vance's place south of Houston. But a hundred miles or so later on the ferry from Galveston to the Bolivar Peninsula, I noticed a spot where the tread groove was just disappearing, and I could see the slight beginnings of shredding that shows the tire cord is about to poke through. Since I had run these tires before, I knew what was going to happen very quickly, so I decided the best course of action was to head straight home (about 350 miles) instead of trying to finish the trip (maybe 800 miles). Now here are the pictures from that tire when I got home:

[ATTACH]27931[/ATTACH] 350 miles before there was NO cord showing on this tire

[ATTACH]27932[/ATTACH] Same tire, opposite side. Notice the layers showing between tread and base.

 

This tire was out of balance when I took it off, with the heavy spot opposite the worst wear. But there is no way to know if that caused the wear or was simply the result of the wear - after all, there is obviously less rubber on the worn site, so that must make it the lighter side of the tire, right? My point here is to impress how quickly the cord will show through once you hit the bottom of the tread groove on these tires. If you look at the second picture, you can see that the long tread grove that crosses the center of the tire is just at the bottom, but right next to it you can detect the slightly different look of the lower layer of rubber that makes up the body of the tire. That's what I meant by "no margin of safety" below the tread groove.

 

Always best to change those tires (any tires) as soon as they hit the tire wear indicators! But if you are on the road and wondering how far you might be able to push it to find a new one - you aren't going to push an Avon very far. Ride safe,

Goose

[pegscraper]

I had an Avon rear tire do that to me also. I like the Avons a lot. But it's just ridiculous for a tire to go from fine and usable to dangerous and life threatening in that few miles. You either throw away good tread (and money), or you have to limit yourself to shorter rides until it fully wears out and you can get another one. Or in your case, abort your ride which screwed up your idea of riding the TX border. Trying to constantly second guess how many miles are left on the tire is nuts. We don't have to worry about this kind of thing on cars. It's why I now use a car tire in the rear.

[Venturous Randy]

Whether is is due to less available flex in the rubber or what, but the less thread there is, the quicker the tread wears out.

RandyA

[GG54172]

That tire looks like it has plenty of life left...on the sides.

 

If the roads in IA forced my tires to look like that, i would go with a car tire. But my current commute wears the sides out before the center so I haven't made the descision to try a car tire yet.

[BuddyRich]

Did the same thing a few years ago. Seems that when the Avons go they go quick. One mile they look fine and 50 miles later your on the thread. I have started replace them when they get close to the wear indicators.

[Missionary Rider]

Goose. You are right! I left home for a day ride and thought I had sufficient tread. Honestly did not know then where the indicators were. THe AR patches/rock on Scenic 7 ate away at my tire and I blew the rear on a curve at little Switzerland (bout 10 miles from the Hub). This was on my Vstar 1100. Thankfully I just coasted into a gravel parking lot - called the Hub and got towed to Harrison Yamaha. WONDERFUL people there fixed me up got me back on the road.

 

Now I know very well where the wear indicators are and, knowing how thin the tire is when it gets there, I will NOT push my luck again.

Lynn

[stardbog]

Dudes, What Are you guys talking about....:stickpoke:10.000 Mils, and you are decide to go road trip :bowdown:I Was bearly able to make 9.000 mark before was ready to be replaced. You guys like to get last mile out of tire. Good Luck.

Edited April 4, 2009 by stardbog

[davecb]

Hmmmm, evidently, Avons do not get good mileage. I've got over 10,000 miles on my stock Dunlop 404's, and they still look great...

 

 

[Dooder1]

Hmmmm, evidently, Avons do not get good mileage. I've got over 10,000 miles on my stock Dunlop 404's, and they still look great...

 

 

 

I would think twice on that. I think the tire yamaha puts on at factory different from one you can buy after market. I got 14000 miles on mine then then replaced them twice with d404s both times less than 5000 miles both rears went to dunlop Elll and got 16000 now Im trying a avon to see what I get with it.

[Squeeze]

The Problem are a flat Spots on the Tire, once you got one, it will continue to express itself and therefore wear out quicker than the Rest of the Tire Thread. This goes for Tires on every Vehicle, but more so on a Motorcycle.

 

Be it under hard Braking or under Acceleration, every sudden Loss of Grip will expose the flat Spot more and more. A Motorcylce has usually 2 to 3 Percent Slippage, so you can't get around that Slippage even on our heavy Touring Bikes.

 

 

The only cure to this is to take the Wheel off and turn the Tire Tread it off to even Surface on a Tire Balancer or similar.

[Sleeperhawk]

On the rear Avon, I have always gotten between 13,000 and 15,000. The front I replaced each time when putting on the second rear tire.

 

I have been told by several, that they were getting close to 20,000 on the E3 rear tire, so I decided to try. If this is the case, I will be sticking with the E3

[Yammer Dan]

Got 7600 out of my Avon and that is what it looked like.

 

10,000?? How do you do that???

[pegscraper]

I got 16,000 miles out of my rear Avon tire, and 23,000 out of the front one. And I still went to the darkside.

[Condor]

I've posted about this before, but this seems like a good time to cover it again, just as a caution.

 

 

Case in point is my recent trip around the Texas border. I had close to 10,000 miles on the rear tire before I left, and it still looked real good. I usually get 14,000 - 15,000 from an Avon rear tire, so I thought I had enough to make the trip; however, I also watched it carefully every day. Goose

 

Sorry, I gotta say something.... You've got bigger cajones than I have Goose. You couldn't get me to go around the block let alone start an 850 trip with a tire that's practically bald in the center, or expect to get another 1000-2000 miles out of a tire that's gone beyond the wear indicatiors. As far as milage out of a tire, I don't care if it's 5000 or 50,000 miles, I want a tire that will perform under extreme conditions, and act like glue in the twisties. Not one that's hard as a rock, piles up huge milage numbers, but acts like your on ice when you really have to get up into the chicken strip.... The Avons have saved my bacon twice. Once because I was stupid, and once because of someone else being stupid. Any hard compound tire, and I wouldn't be here pecking at this keyboard.

[Squeeze]

... I don't care if it's 5000 or 50,000 miles, I want a tire that will perform under extreme conditions, and act like glue in the twisties. Not one that's hard as a rock, piles up huge milage numbers, but acts like your on ice when you really have to get up into the chicken strip.....

 

 

I' sorry Condor, but you didn't left a Line where can i sign that Statement ??

[Guest Swifty]

I had a rear bald Avon in Georgia once (wear bars not showing), and I tried to get one put on in Asheville where I took issue with the dealer who wanted $150 to install it. So I decided to try to get home (1200 kms) where I had a tire waiting. I checked it at every stop and there were no chords showing when I got home. Made me happy with the Avons.

[V7Goose]

Sorry, I gotta say something.... You've got bigger cajones than I have Goose. You couldn't get me to go around the block let alone start an 850 trip with a tire that's practically bald in the center, or expect to get another 1000-2000 miles out of a tire that's gone beyond the wear indicatiors. As far as milage out of a tire, I don't care if it's 5000 or 50,000 miles, I want a tire that will perform under extreme conditions, and act like glue in the twisties. Not one that's hard as a rock, piles up huge milage numbers, but acts like your on ice when you really have to get up into the chicken strip.... The Avons have saved my bacon twice. Once because I was stupid, and once because of someone else being stupid. Any hard compound tire, and I wouldn't be here pecking at this keyboard.

No reason to apologize Condor, you are free to say whatever you want. But your comments do puzzle me. I have no idea to what you refer when you say you wouldn't start an 850 mile trip on a tire that is practically bald - I specifically said I did NOT do that. Nor did I ever even suggest that I would expect 1,000-2,000 miles out of a tire that has gone beyond the wear indicators. I started my trip with at least 1/3 of the expected tire life left on my rear tire (5,000 miles remaining), and that was the maximum expected distance of the trip. Based on my personal experience with multiple Avon tires on this RSV, I believe that it was quite reasonable to expect the tire to remain safe to at least 14,000 miles, and possible 15,000 or 16,000. And nowhere did I complain about the life of that tire - I was simply providing information to others about how little rubber remains on an Avon Venom between the bottom of the tread and the cord. It seems to me that a warning about not pushing a tire too far is completely in line with what I think you are saying.

 

In fact, I don't disagree with anything you say in this post, but please don't try to imply that I've said anything other than what is actually in print...

Goose

[2Whlsrollin]

Goose thanks for the thread. I don't feel like a knuckle head anymore. Running my 3rd venom rear I looked at the thread and made the comment to some buddies that I had a couple thousand miles left. The 2 previous were about 14 thousand before I replaced them and with my current rear at 11,000 I thought it was a safe assumption. The next thing I know I'm seeing the cords. I thought what the heck is going on here. We were supposed to go on a ride last Sunday and I could not go, I told my buddies about the cords showing, they busted my chops because I was just telling them the week before about the additional 2 thousand miles I had. Do you know where the thread indicators are? I just had a new one put on Wednesday and I want to keep an eye on the wear indicators. I also wonder why I did not get the 14,000 out of this one. How much air pressure do you run in your front and rear?

[BuddyRich]

Look inside the grooves of the tire towards the center. You'll see what appears to be a small bridge or square lump. That's your wear indicator.

[V7Goose]

BuddyRich included an excellent picture of the wear indicator. In addition, both sides of the tire are marked with "T.W.I." on the shoulder right next to the edge of the tread for each wear indicator, but they do not go straight across the tire. The wear indicators seem to cross the tire in an arc; not sure why. I always kept my Venom tires around 40 front, 46 rear.

 

One additional comment - the Avon Venom tires are mostly "bald" in the center all the way around, even when new. They only have 4 grooves that run all the way from one side to the other, so these four points are the best place to watch for wear. It is very easy to be fooled by the amount of depth left on the side grooves that do not extend all the way to the middle. And since the RSV shows such a small section of the rear tire under the fender in the back, just glancing at it there is never safe. Either get down on the ground and look at the tire front and back, or better yet, roll the bike several times and check multiple spots. As you can see from the pictures in the first post here, one side of my tire was severely worn into the cords, but the other side had one of the long tread grooves that still was not worn smooth in the center. Just looking at that one groove would have given a false sense of security that there was still life left in the tire!

Goose

[Tom]

Goose I have followed this thread and currently closing in on 16000 miles on my Avons and they look really good ...BUT I think I will go ahead and order a new set as I think I may be pushing the envelope...By the way how does your brother like the Wing compared to the Venture..??

[2Whlsrollin]

Thanks. Have them located and will keep a eye on them as my tire wears.

[V7Goose]

Goose I have followed this thread and currently closing in on 16000 miles on my Avons and they look really good ...BUT I think I will go ahead and order a new set as I think I may be pushing the envelope...By the way how does your brother like the Wing compared to the Venture..??

My brother had a 2005 Wing before he bought the Venture, so he already knew how they compared. I will say that his new one is a LOT more attractive than his old yeller one, but other than that it still leaves me cold. He says they made a number of good improvements to it, but I guess you had to own one to know - from the outside looking in, I couldn't tell a bit of difference.

 

I'm probably telling stories out of school here, but I saw a hint of why he got rid of the Wing in the first place (after he and I did a long ride through Colorado a couple of years ago he dumped his first Wing as soon as he got home and bought the 07 RSV). Well, right after he picked up the new Wing there were several instances where we stopped for gas, etc., and someone would come up to me and compliment me on what a great looking bike my Venture was - even engage me in extended conversations about it, but nobody said boo to him about that fancy brand new candy apple red $24,000 tupperware refrigerator sitting right next to it! At one point he briefly lost it and grumbled about how everybody just assumes a Wing is a pussybike and their riders aren't serious bikers! I did my best to not audibly agree with him on the point, but I don't think I completely succeeded.

I later posed the question to him wondering if the pussybike created the pussybiker, or the pussybiker went looking for the pussybike (kinda the chicken or the egg sort of thing), but I never got an answer I could print here!

Goose

[Condor]

No reason to apologize Condor, you are free to say whatever you want. But your comments do puzzle me. I have no idea to what you refer when you say you wouldn't start an 850 mile trip on a tire that is practically bald - I specifically said I did NOT do that. Nor did I ever even suggest that I would expect 1,000-2,000 miles out of a tire that has gone beyond the wear indicators. I started my trip with at least 1/3 of the expected tire life left on my rear tire (5,000 miles remaining), and that was the maximum expected distance of the trip. Based on my personal experience with multiple Avon tires on this RSV, I believe that it was quite reasonable to expect the tire to remain safe to at least 14,000 miles, and possible 15,000 or 16,000. And nowhere did I complain about the life of that tire - I was simply providing information to others about how little rubber remains on an Avon Venom between the bottom of the tread and the cord. It seems to me that a warning about not pushing a tire too far is completely in line with what I think you are saying.

 

In fact, I don't disagree with anything you say in this post, but please don't try to imply that I've said anything other than what is actually in print...

Goose

 

I guess I do need to apologise Goose.

So let me be a little more specific, and perhaps you can corrrect me where I'm in error.

What I felt you were sayting say that you expected another 4-5 thousand miles out of the tire based on your experience of getting 15,000 miles out of previous Avons. Or the tire still had 1/3 of it's wear left after putting 10,000 miles on it....

You also stated that you cut your trip short and rode 350 miles dirrectly home due to the condition of the tire. So lets assume that you put a total of 800 miles... give or take... on the tire, and it went from a tire with 1/3 of it's tread life left above the wear indicators when you started the trip, to a tire that was worn down to the cord.

From the pictures you posted it semed like, to me anyway, that a lot of tire disappeared in those miles you traveled, or the tire didn't have the amount of tread left you thought it had, but that perhaps the tread was already getting pretty thin.

Ergo, my comment about bald and stretching the milage. For that I apologise.

Condor.

[V7Goose]

You also stated that you cut your trip short and rode 350 miles dirrectly home due to the condition of the tire. So lets assume that you put a total of 800 miles... give or take... on the tire, and it went from a tire with 1/3 of it's tread life left above the wear indicators when you started the trip, to a tire that was worn down to the cord.

Condor.

Well, that assumption is where the error is.

 

Condor, the part you missed was that I started the trip with just under 10,000 miles on the tire and put 4,500 additional miles on it before it got to the point where it was about to show cord. At that point, with a total of 14,500 miles on the rear tire, I made the decision to ride the 350 miles home instead of finishing the trip. So I got almost the full mileage I expected from that tire, and I attribute the very rough road surfaces we hit along the Mexican border (some freshly paved roads with HUGE aggregate with lots of sharp edges in the asphalt) for the extra wear that made me cut the trip short.

 

I originally expected the total trip mileage to be no more than 4,500 miles, but I guess we did a bit more poking around in the boonies that added on a few miles.

Goose