Drive shaft maintenance nightmare

[Jinksy4]

First of all, I'm not much of mechanic but have been studying everyone's experience and decided to get give it a shot.

 

Today I pulled the differential on my 2000 RSV after I removed the wheels to install my new Avons. That went pretty well using my new Carbon One adaptor and everyone's advice. But then, had a horrible time getting the drive shaft out of the differential. Ended up destroying the seal to get it off. Now, am struggling to get the rest of the seal off the shaft - have it soaking in some carb cleaner right now. Also, it appeared that the output end of the drive shaft (part that goes inside the pumkin after the seal) is lubed by rear end grease.

 

Couple questions:

 

1. Is there a better way to get that seal off the drive shaft?
   
2. Why do you grease the output end of the drive shaft if it is bathed in differential grease?
   
3. What do you have to leave on the rear wheel for the shop to install the new tire and balance? I have removed the disk brake rotors on all the wheels to protect them. (Found that a shot of WD40 on all the bolts as well as a slight tap with the ball peen hammer on the head of the bolt allowed them to be extracted pretty easy.)
   

I have purchased some Honda Moly60 to grease everything when reassembling.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

Jinksy

[sarges46]

I understand the reasoning for taking the discs off...but I wonder about the balance now. I would think those parts need to stay put for a proper running balance.

 

Others....is there not a circlip on that shaft by the pumpkin?

[ToRide1]

I don't understand what happened with the differential end, and the shop should be able to deal with the tire and rotor attached. You put a little grease on both ends of the driveshaft don't over do it! just enough to fill the splines on the universal end, Note there is a plastic inspection cap that you can remove on the driveshaft shroud and its may take some time getting it into the universal some times you get lucky it go's right in. and don't forget to grease the hub, look you see.

[sarges46]

Hang in there ...its late...you will more advice. But to me...me thinks you made a slight boo boo...it shouldnt be that hard to take out the shaft...getting it back in takes some wiggling though.

 

You may have broke something...but wait and see what everyone else has to say....or at least someone with more knowledge about this than me!

[Ponch]

 

had a horrible time getting the drive shaft out of the differential. Ended up destroying the seal to get it off. Now, am struggling to get the rest of the seal off the shaft - have it soaking in some carb cleaner right now. Also, it appeared that the output end of the drive shaft (part that goes inside the pumkin after the seal) is lubed by rear end grease.

 

Couple questions:

 

1. Is there a better way to get that seal off the drive shaft?
   
2. Why do you grease the output end of the drive shaft if it is bathed in differential grease?
   
3. What do you have to leave on the rear wheel for the shop to install the new tire and balance? I have removed the disk brake rotors on all the wheels to protect them. (Found that a shot of WD40 on all the bolts as well as a slight tap with the ball peen hammer on the head of the bolt allowed them to be extracted pretty easy.)
   

 

1. I recently tore a seal on my final drive (due to my own ignorance). I was trying to see what the inside of the final drive at the pinion looked like while I had the shaft out. Anyway, I didn't notice it the time, but about a week later I had a pretty nasty leak.

I pulled the input shaft out of the final drive and placed it in a vice. I used a screwdriver to nudge the seal down (a little bit on each side) until I was able to use two screwdrivers to put equal pressure on each side of the seal at the same time. It then slid right off.

When replacing the seal, I used gentle force on a the box end of a wrench to seat the seal back on the shaft. It really wasn't much to it.

2. Don't grease the gear end of the shaft. It is bathed in final drive lube.

3. If you're paying someone to mount and balance your tires, take them the entire wheel assembly (rotors attached). I think that the chance of the rotors being out of balance is miniscule, but the assembly should be balanced with rotors attached. If you reattach the rotors yourself, be sure to torque them properly. And be sure to torque all fasteners in reassembly.

I have some photos to post later of the seal removal/ reinstall.

Ponch

[MiCarl]

 

2. Don't grease the gear end of the shaft. It is bathed in final drive lube.

 

 

Are you sure about this? The parts fiche has an oil seal between the bearing retainer and the coupling the drive shaft slides into.

 

My impression was this is precisely the place 2nd gens have the clicking issue.

[Ponch]

... when I pulled the shaft, there was clear final drive lube on the gear. It meshes with the ring gear which is bathed in lube.

My understanding of the "clicking" problem is that it is the drive pins that attach the drive to the wheel being dry that causes the noise. There is an excellent write up about how to lube this, but it really is quite simple. Pull the wheel, remove the lock ring off the splined hub attached to the wheel center, slide the hub off, clean rust and/or gunk off the pins, lube and reinstall.

[KiteSquid]

Are you sure you are removing the drive shaft? It sounds like your are removeing the pinion gear.

 

Click HERE to downoad the 2nd Ventuer Parts Diagramsand the FACTORY Service Manual for FREE!!!!!!

 

Look at the parts diagram. Page E2 number 32 is the drive shaft. It is about 18" long. The pinion gear is not numbered but it is located between nuber 13 and 14. DO NOT remove the Pinon gear!!!!!

 

 

The drive shaft is located in a long tube that is part of the Rear Arm on pge E1 of the parts list.

 

If you look in the Service Manul there is a GREAT drawing on page 7-78, the drive shaft is part number 3. This also starst the removeal and replacement procdure, but you have to remove the rear wheel first (Page 7-11)

 

 

Drive shaft removal and replcement procedure is in teh Service manual located in the VRTech secton

[N3FOL]

I was just wondering why a seal was broken...??

 

Looking at 7-78 of the Maintenance Manual, I see now why the Rear Wheel has to come off......if I am not mistaken the Speedometer Sensor has to come off and then pull on Final Gear Assembly to expose the Drive Shaft after removing 4 bolts (Right?).

[KiteSquid]

I was just wondering why a seal was broken...??

 

Looking at 7-78 of the Maintenance Manual, I see now why the Rear Wheel has to come off......if I am not mistaken the Speedometer Sensor has to come off and then pull on Final Gear Assembly to expose the Drive Shaft after removing 4 bolts (Right?).

 

 

That is correct!!!!!

[Ponch]

I pulled the input shaft out of the final drive and placed it in a vice. I used a screwdriver to nudge the seal down (a little bit on each side) until I was able to use two screwdrivers to put equal pressure on each side of the seal at the same time. It then slid right off.

 

When replacing the seal, I used gentle force on a the box end of a wrench to seat the seal back on the shaft.

 

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[GeorgeS]

This last posting should be put in the Maint Library !!!

[Squeeze]

This last posting should be put in the Maint Library !!!

 

Yes, but i'm not 100 Percent positive if this Direction of the Oil Seal is the correct Direction.

 

Usually, the open Side of a U-shaped Seal goes to the Side where the Oil and the Pressure is. We have no Pressure here, but Oil to seal. Also, the outer Flanges seem to look in the "wrong Direction" to the Spline Collar om the Pinion Gear.

[Jinksy4]

First of all, thanks to everyone, especially George and Ponch for the help and pictures.

 

I missed the information in the manual for balancing the tires with the rotors on and will torque them back on.

 

• Do you just use a criss-cross pattern for torquing?
  

It sounds like not many folks have had this problem with removing the drive shaft from the gear coupling. It took a huge pulling effort along with trying to break the side of the seal from the internal gear coupling wall with a pick to finally get the shaft to come out.

 

The manual is not very clear about whether or not a seal goes on the drive shaft at the gear coupling end either. The references you folks provided showed it with a seal and without – very confusing.

 

• I suppose the fluid in the gear coupling behind the seal on the drive shaft could have been old spline grease, but it looked like dirty rear end grease and was runny. (see pictures)
  
• Also, do you add moly60 grease to drive shaft splines that engage the gear coupling or not? Ponch's experience says that it is bathed in differential lubricant.
  

I have attached pictures of the failed seal on the drive shaft.

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Jinksy

Edited March 16, 2009 by Jinksy4
added a picture

[Ponch]

Yes, but i'm not 100 Percent positive if this Direction of the Oil Seal is the correct Direction.

 

Usually, the open Side of a U-shaped Seal goes to the Side where the Oil and the Pressure is. We have no Pressure here, but Oil to seal. Also, the outer Flanges seem to look in the "wrong Direction" to the Spline Collar om the Pinion Gear.

 

Squeeze,

 

I struggled with the direction of the "U", but I put it back excactly the way it came off and to me, it looks like its on the same way as the illustration of the seal in the manual.

 

So far, its not leaking and all is well. I put about 500 miles on it since the repair.

[Squeeze]

I have a Vmax Shaft lying around, i will take a Look at that.

 

 

There shouldn't be too much to worry about. There is no Oil Pressure and it shouldn't leak one or the other Way.

[N3FOL]

I pulled the input shaft out of the final drive and placed it in a vice. I used a screwdriver to nudge the seal down (a little bit on each side) until I was able to use two screwdrivers to put equal pressure on each side of the seal at the same time. It then slid right off.

 

When replacing the seal, I used gentle force on a the box end of a wrench to seat the seal back on the shaft.

 

 

Sounds like this seal may break upon disassembly of the drive shaft. Are the seal on both ends of the Drive Shaft? Do you have a part number that I can order before I start taking my shaft apart in a few months?

[BigBoyinMS]

First of all, thanks to everyone, especially George and Ponch for the help and pictures.

 

I missed the information in the manual for balancing the tires with the rotors on and will torque them back on.

 

• Do you just use a criss-cross pattern for torquing?
  

It sounds like not many folks have had this problem with removing the drive shaft from the gear coupling. It took a huge pulling effort along with trying to break the side of the seal from the internal gear coupling wall with a pick to finally get the shaft to come out.

 

The manual is not very clear about whether or not a seal goes on the drive shaft at the gear coupling end either. The references you folks provided showed it with a seal and without – very confusing.

 

• I suppose the fluid in the gear coupling behind the seal on the drive shaft could have been old spline grease, but it looked like dirty rear end grease and was runny. (see pictures)
  
• Also, do you add moly60 grease to drive shaft splines that engage the gear coupling or not? Ponch's experience says that it is bathed in differential lubricant.
  

I have attached pictures of the failed seal on the drive shaft.

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Jinksy

 

The runny fluid where the shaft couples is old spline grease. Behind that you see a nut which is the nut on the pinion. Gear oil is behind that and it's kept in by an o-ring on the bearing retainer. And FYI, the lip side of a seal always goes toward the grease side.

[ibents]

One question, When putting the drive shaft back in, can you attach it into the yoke first, then slide the pumkin onto the other end of the shaft and tighten the 4 nuts.

I did it this way and have had no problem.

 

Ian

[MiCarl]

One question, When putting the drive shaft back in, can you attach it into the yoke first, then slide the pumkin onto the other end of the shaft and tighten the 4 nuts.

I did it this way and have had no problem.

 

Ian

 

How do you know that the seal is engaged in the coupler?

[ibents]

How do you know that the seal is engaged in the coupler?

 

 

Carl, I think that it should go in once its connected to the drive tube. I Believe that I read on here before that someone did it that way, but I can't think who.

Has anyone else done it this way?

 

Ian

[Squeeze]

One question, When putting the drive shaft back in, can you attach it into the yoke first, then slide the pumkin onto the other end of the shaft and tighten the 4 nuts.

I did it this way and have had no problem.

 

Ian

 

Yes, that's the Way to do it.

[Jinksy4]

I pulled the input shaft out of the final drive and placed it in a vice. I used a screwdriver to nudge the seal down (a little bit on each side) until I was able to use two screwdrivers to put equal pressure on each side of the seal at the same time. It then slid right off.

 

When replacing the seal, I used gentle force on a the box end of a wrench to seat the seal back on the shaft.

 

[ATTACH]27298[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27299[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27300[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27301[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27302[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27303[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27304[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27305[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27306[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27307[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27308[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]27309[/ATTACH]

 

Thanks for your information. Could you tell me what the part # is for the drive shaft oil seal you replaced in the picture?

 

Thank again.

[Ponch]

Sounds like this seal may break upon disassembly of the drive shaft. Are the seal on both ends of the Drive Shaft? Do you have a part number that I can order before I start taking my shaft apart in a few months?

 

Thanks for your information. Could you tell me what the part # is for the drive shaft oil seal you replaced in the picture?

 

Thank again.

 

I don't have my receipt in front of me, but looking at the parts manual, the number is 93108-23007-00. I think it was about $12.00.

 

Ponch

[gunboat]

great job ponch.

the photos look good, i have my bike up on the lift with the back end tore out. i agree with you about not using moly 60 on the rear splines as it is lubed in final drive oil. if you look down in to the pumpkin you will see the two holes that let final drive oil splash up there. i also had to destroy the drive shaft oil seal to remove it from the pumpkin. this is the 2'nd one i've torn up. maybe i'am not using kid gloves, cause i've pinched the seal both times trying to remove them. so i'am off the the stealer to buy another seal. best reguards

don c.