Steering head bearing, nuts go which way?

[Gearhead]

Hi y'all,

 

This question is in regards to the two adjuster "ring nuts" that set the bearing preload. The factory manual says somewhat cryptically,

 

"The tapered side of the ring nut must face downward."

 

This is repeated for the other ring nut, so they are evidently both supposed to face the same direction. I'm not clear on what the "tapered side" is, and the pictures in this manual stink.

 

The two nuts appear to be identical. One side is flat. The other side has a slightly raised rib running around the face of the nut, as well as a conical cut or chamfer around the inside by the threads. I guess that could be considered a taper.

 

When I took mine apart they were not facing the same. The lower nut had the flat side up and the upper nut had the flat side down so that the rubber washer was sandwiched between the flat sides.

 

Any opinions? Does it really matter?

 

Jeremy

[Dano]

When I took mine apart they were not facing the same. The lower nut had the flat side up and the upper nut had the flat side down so that the rubber washer was sandwiched between the flat sides.

Jeremy

 

This is the correct orientation, but spend three bucks and get the anti-wobble washer (say that 5 times quickly!) being offered in the classifieds. It takes the place of the rubber washer to eliminate the front end wobble that may occur.

 

Dan

[5bikes]

to setting the correct bearing pressure of any bike I've owned. I cleaned and regreased everything with moly. Reassembled and tightened everything (triple trees, forks, brace, wheel and brakes) then did the 2 large nuts.

Front wheel off the ground.

I like to have the steering when pushed side to side (5# pressure?) move a little freely so it barely bounces off the stops. Tightened too much the steering does not reach the stops, too little bearing pressure and the steering swings way over against the stops and bounces 1/4 way back. Smooth action thru out the travel is important.

You have to tighten both washers and the large top nut on top of the top triple tree to test.

Then I grab the lower end of the forks and push forward and rearward hard. There must not be any slop at the steering stem.

I think the nuts as Dan said is right but my Venture does not have the wobble washer. I bought one is case I want to do it again later.

By the way the front tire is even more critical. It MUST have a rounded profile.

Edited March 13, 2009 by 5bikes
More info

[Gearhead]

So Chuck, do you have the stock rubber washer in there?

 

Jeremy

[muffinman]

Danob is correct I dont have the rubber or the anti wobble washer on my 83 or 84.the trick is that the top nut needs to be tight to ( it is the jamb nut to keep the steering head tight where you set it)

Jeff

[5bikes]

All is metal to metal, nut to nut, no washers. Can't remember how I oriented the washer positively, but 2 friends (both have 88's) say my bike steers well. It's not a GSX handler though.

Ventures frame, forks and swing arm are spindly compared other/newer bikes so it will never be my mountain road racer.

[Dano]

Chuck, got an idea for you. Try the Delrin solid motor mounts. Those old rubber mounts allow the engine to twist alot under torque. I put them in mine last year and it works wonders.

I have a diagram on file if you want to turn a set out of aluminim.

 

Dan

[lonestarmedic]

If you look, the nuts have shall we call them "teeth" on the castellated corners. These need to contact the upper and lower castings. In stock configuration the lower nut is tightened and then the rubber washer is installed. Then the upper nut is hand tightened against the rubber. Not to the point that it distorts and squeezes out from in between the nuts but firm. Finally the locking ring is slid over the nuts. The upper nut may need to be rotated slightly to align the notches so the lock ring will fit. Then the upper casting is installed. The upper casing retainer nut is torqued down and in theory pushes the casting against those "teeth" preventing movement. Now, if the stack works as designed, the tension between the upper and lower castings locks the bearing nut in place.

 

I myself found the upper nut loose and rattling around without any tension when I pulled my steering head apart. I bet my bearing preload was about 2 pounds!! As I did not have an aluminum Furber washer I re-insalled the stack factory style. I am going to re-torque the stack and install the Furber washer this week. The stock repair corrected a lot of stability problems but I am not satisfied.

 

Many folks take the rubber washer and move it on top of the nuts. Then they torque the lower nut and use the upper as a locking jam nut. Then the rubber washer and lock ring become spacers. The folks with V-Maxes do this often. It seems to help.

 

Good Luck

 

JB

[Gearhead]

Ok, so I'm finally reassembling...

 

I'll put the nuts back the way they came off then. I like the rubber washer as it provides a way to set the bearing preload with the lower nut and not increase it inadvertently when tightening down the upper nut. The tab washer keeps it locked to the upper nut, and the upper tree is then smashed down against that with the crown nut.

 

JB, that's weird, I've never seen that. Had you been into the bearings before? I'd bet somebody didn't torque the crown nut properly. I don't think the teeth on the upper nut can dig into the upper tree because the tab washer holds the upper tree up off the nut by its thickness. Also, if you were to move the rubber washer to above the upper nut, the crown nut torque (80-ish ft-lb) would squeeze against the rubber, not good.

 

I've always done what 5bikes said about grabbing the lower forks to check for bearing play. Generally with most bikes I've set the bearing preload to just tight enough to get rid of the play and it works great. Only caveat is that I always have old bikes and sometimes there's a little play between the fork tube and slider bushing. When I wiggle the lower forks, I have to discern between this play and head bearing play.

 

Jeremy

[lonestarmedic]

Gearhead-

I used a straight edge to check the "teeth" versus the tab washer. The teeth do

protrude a touch higher then the flat of the washer. I had NOT been into the steering before this finding. I too put the stack back as per the manual.

 

I too wonder about having the rubber on top and then torquing down the upper casting nut. The position of that casting can be effected by several things. As the stem is tapered, the casting needs down on the stem. Any change that raises the casting would cause it to be loose on the stem. Also, since the front of the casting clamps around the fork tubes tightening the clamps before torquing down the crown nut might cause a bind on the front forks. I set the tubes level and then torque the crown nut. Then I go from the axle up tightening and torquing the clamps etc. The last item I tighten is the fork brace.

 

JB

[Gearhead]

JB,

 

The ring nuts on my bike do not have teeth like yours, then. Hmm, wonder why? I still maintain that as long as the 80-some ft-lbs is put on the crown nut, teeth are not required to prevent that upper ring nut from moving.

 

You sure about the stem being tapered? I don't think so. It has a step or two with different diameters, but I think the portion that mounts the upper tree casting is cylindrical. Any play is taken out by torquing the crown nut. This allows some tolerance on the distance between the triple tree clamps due to production differeces in all the various parts. I do agree about being real careful not to put the triple tree in a bind!

 

Jeremy

[Squeeze]

JB,

 

The ring nuts on my bike do not have teeth like yours, then. Hmm, wonder why? I still maintain that as long as the 80-some ft-lbs is put on the crown nut, teeth are not required to prevent that upper ring nut from moving.

 

You sure about the stem being tapered? I don't think so. It has a step or two with different diameters, but I think the portion that mounts the upper tree casting is cylindrical. Any play is taken out by torquing the crown nut. This allows some tolerance on the distance between the triple tree clamps due to production differeces in all the various parts. I do agree about being real careful not to put the triple tree in a bind!

 

Jeremy

 

Jeremy, you're right, there's nothing tapered on the Stem.

[lonestarmedic]

Guess I will have to look closer when I take the steering apart again. I would have sworn that there was a taper just below the threads. Might be that it ends at a stepped area. Anyway, the "teeth" are not pronounce like a shake-proof washer. The edges right at the castellations are just very squared compared to the side against the rubber ring but they doo turn upward a tiny bit. I have a Furber fix washer waiting to be installed next time I get into the steering.

 

I still cannot figure out how the upper nut came loose. The lower nut was not excessively loose. I did not have a clunk when moving the fork for and aft with the front off thhe ground. It just felt like it had too much slack.

 

JB