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Posted (edited)

Not being the kinda' guy that likes to do things the easy way,But always looking to save a few bucks I purchased a set of Carb. Diaphragms off of Ebay a while back. ($86.00 with shipping) I thought I would give you a run down on how that went.

After removing the False Tank cover and both side covers as well as the lower fairing legs on both sides I was able to get to all 4 Carbs. easily. To remove the Carb. covers I used 3 tools, a 1/4 inch drive ratchet with a special Torx bit on it for the 4 odd screws, an impact driver with a Phillips bit in it and finally a pair of Vise Grips for 2 of those Phillips head screws that just wouldn't come out. I took out the Torx head screws first on all 4 carbs. because when you remove the last Phillips head screw, you better have your catcher's mit on, that Carb. cover is coming off...FAST! I had set up 4 shop towels on my bench and kept all of the Carb. parts separated. I held each slider assembly up to a good light to inspect them and sure enough all 4 diaphragms had holes in them. I removed the old Carb. diaphragms by gripping the slider and "rolling" the old diaphragm out from between the two flanges on the slider. Two of the old diaphragms came off in pretty bad shape. I then cleaned all of the reusable parts with Carb. cleaner , but I must say that overall everything looked pretty clean. All 4 of the sliders were nice and smooth as were the Carb. bodies on the engine. I used a clean cloth and Carb. cleaner to clean out the Carb. body bores. (I don't use paper towels for this as I would not want a shard of paper ending up in the intake or the Carb. body) With everything clean I moved on to the reassembly. The Ebay diaphragms were not made of the same material as the stock Yamaha ones, but were very pliable, and had the tab for alignment in the Carb. body. After lubing the diaphragm with aerosol spray silicone I inserted the slider into the bore of the diaphragm. When I got to the flange, I stretched the diaphragm bore over the bottom flange. Now the spacing on the two flanges of the slider seemed a bit "slim" and I panicked for a moment but realized that by using my thumb nail I could wedge the diaphragm bore between the two flanges with no problem. When all was said and done you couldn't tell that the diaphragms and the sliders were not mated at the factory. I had the slider needles out for another project I will discuss later and at this point I reinstalled them. I put the slider assemblies back in the Carb. bodies aligning the tabs, put the caps on with the Stainless Steel Allen Head Cap Screw set I have listed in the classifieds and reinstalled all of the body parts and that as they say was that! Oh yea, I accidentally spilled some paint on the Carb. caps...Oops! I have attached some pics below and am willing to chat with anyone that is interested in this rebuild. Feel free to PM me. Sorry this got a bit "windy"

Earl

Edited by skydoc_17
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Posted

Thanks, Earl! I've seen that set and was wondering how they were. I have 2 sets of carbs for rebuild (or now possibly only 1 set if I give up a carb to Squidley) to get around to one of these days. I need at least 1 set for the 85 project bike. The 84 is still running pretty decent, and I can always rebuild the set fom the 85 to have as spares...

Posted

Hey Darrin,

I was dealing with a few issues, a tad hard to start, (lots of choke) wet plugs, (fouling) occasional backfiring, but the biggest one was bad gas mileage. Just last week I purchased a CarbTune Pro and after a Carb. sync. It basically runs like a new bike.

 

Hey Lutz,

Thanks for the kind words, as to your question, I had the cover off of the air box and with the filter and center plate removed I had one hand in the air box to rotate the slider and the other hand with the Carb. cover to place on when the diaphragm was in the right rotation. One other thing Lutz, the quality of the replacement diaphragm was very good, the bead on the outer most diameter and the size and location of the clocking tab made for an ideal fit, whoever machined the mold for these diaphragms did an excellent job! :thumbsup2:

 

Thanks for the praise and keep those questions coming,

Earl

Posted

Who was the ebay seller you got them from?

 

also did you do the "upgrade" to the washer to improve gas mileage as posted in the other threads?

Posted

I probably would have made up an small Rig to catch both Borings in the Sliders bottom and a Piece of Wire indicating the Middle of the Tab. Two Nails with the right Head Diameter and a third for getting the Wire fixed to a Piece of Wood. Then insert the Slider into the Nails and bend the Wire to meet the Tab in lower Positon. But that's just me. I'm really Sorry to say, this just came to my Mind, because i fear the Lifter Boring will not be in the right Place in the Carb and because of that, different Vacuum Pressures would move the Sliders different to the other Carbs.

 

These Venturi driven Things are very sensitive to these Matters. Anyway, i'm sure you got that set right and thanks for the good Write-Up.

Posted

Nice write up Earl. One question. To get the old diaphragms off, did you just pull out one edge and the rest came along for the ride?? My concern would be to get the entire diaphragm out without tearing and leaving pieces in the groove between two plastic keepers... Most of the diaphragms I've seen have those two keepers pressed together pretty tight, and donn't give much space to get that inner lip out of the groove.

Posted
Nice write up Earl. One question. To get the old diaphragms off, did you just pull out one edge and the rest came along for the ride?? My concern would be to get the entire diaphragm out without tearing and leaving pieces in the groove between two plastic keepers... Most of the diaphragms I've seen have those two keepers pressed together pretty tight, and donn't give much space to get that inner lip out of the groove.

 

 

I've seen the upper, white Plastic falling apart and pushed it just back on. I don't think this is a big Deal.

 

The only negative i see in this Method is

 

1st - performing the Job patient enough without ruining a new Diaphragm

 

2nd - i've seen Sliders from Maxxes which had Skid Grooves notched deeply into te Material, a Buddy of mine had one Slider stuck because of that. His max has 85 000 mls, so this might be the main Reason for this Encounter. He polished the Slider and the Carb Housing with a Dremel and came out fine

 

3rd - so far, nobody knows how long these Aftermarket Parts will hold up compared to OEM Parts, there might be some Misinvestment experienced

Posted
I've seen the upper, white Plastic falling apart and pushed it just back on. I don't think this is a big Deal.

 

I've had a couple come apart. Maybe they were pried apart in the past at some time, and if they were just pushed back together they will come apart again.... For the most part the keepers are permanently installed and not meant to be seperated.

Posted

Hey Jack,

To address your question first, as you can see in the pic comparing the old diaphragm to the new one, on all 4 sliders, the old diaphragm came off in one piece. I did use compressed air after the Carb. cleaner wash and did a through inspection as well. I too was concerned about part of the old diaphragm remaining in between the two flanges and causing problems. As it turned out my sliders were in really good shape and the addition of these aftermarket diaphragms was the bomb! I have had these diaphragms for a few months now and was a bit worried about installing them. I approached this rebuild "loaded for bear" as far as prep, cleanliness, and focus was concerned, other than having a little trouble with a couple of those Phillips Head Screws, (vice grip time) I would say that this project was one notch above "stupid" easy. If I hadn't gotten crazy with the paint on the Carb. covers and giving the plastic parts I removed a through cleaning and a coat of wax, I could have been in and outta' there in under 2 hours. I decided to do the write-up because of that moment I panicked when I wasn't sure how to seat the diaphragm inner diameter between the two flanges. Everyone has been so helpful on this site that this is how I try to "Pay it forward".

 

Hey Tim,

To address your questions next, Yes I did do the washer mod to the slider needles as was described by 5Bikes (Chuck) and a BIG THANKS goes out to him for his description on that mod. The weather has not been very good here yet so I can't give a definitive answer as to how much better the gas mileage has gotten but I am going to do a write-up with pics when I have some hard numbers. I can say that after the mod, my exhausts doesn't smell "too rich" any more. Plus after about 100 miles of riding I pulled the plugs and they were breaking in nicely. No more wet plugs. Plus in the past, My gas light would come on at about 125 miles, I am at 100 miles on this tank and still have almost 1/2 tank left. I am optimistic but don't want to "blow my horn" until I can back it up with some actual data. Here's a link to the seller on Ebay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DIAPHRAGM-YAMAHA-XV535-VIRAGO-XVZ12-XVZ13-VENTURE-ROYAL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a2Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem270342324033QQitemZ270342324033QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

 

Hey Lutz,

I wanted to address your concerns next by saying that the molded lip on the outer most diameter of the new diaphragms fit the groove in the Carb. body "like a glove". The molded lip is much more defined on these new diaphragms and with the addition of the clocking tab, Verifying that the rotational alignment was correct and verifying that the new diaphragm was sitting flat was no problem at all. Now about longevity, this of course remains to be seen but I can say that I put a set of aftermarket diaphragms in my V65 Magna made from the same material and have 5 years of "Hard Running" on them with no problems. Will they last for 20 plus years, I don't know, but for $21.50US per Carb. I am willing to find out. I'll PM you in 2029 and let you know!!:rotf:

 

As with all of the repairs and mods I have done to both my 87'VR and 86'VR I am not saying that my way is the best way, I merely share the information I have gathered while performing the repair or mod, let you know what the results were, and ultimately allow EACH PERSON to decide if this is the direction they would like to go. I surely don't claim to know "everything" about these motorcycles, and I have access to machining equipment that most do not, and believe me when I say that if next week these diaphragms fall out on the pavement, I'll be on this site, with my head hung low, Telling you NOT to buy these diaphragms and asking all of you good people where did you get your stock Yamaha diaphragms for the best price! I promise!

Any other questions, feel free to ask,

Earl

Posted
... I am willing to find out. I'll PM you in 2029 and let you know!!:rotf:

...Earl

 

Well Earl i take this Threat very serious and i'm looking forward to your PM !! !!

 

 

 

:crackup::crackup::crackup:

 

 

Actually i may sound a bit sceptic, but that sounds more than it actually is. I really appreciate your "Venture" and when they hold up five Years or even more, that'd be fine for me.

Posted
Well Earl i take this Threat very serious and i'm looking forward to your PM !! !!

 

 

 

:crackup::crackup::crackup:

 

 

Actually i may sound a bit sceptic, but that sounds more than it actually is. I really appreciate your "Venture" and when they hold up five Years or even more, that'd be fine for me.

 

:sign yeah that: :thumbsup2:

Posted

Thanks for the write up Earl, I too have been looking at these replacement diaphragms as I feel my bike isnt getting the gas mileage it should be either and appears to be running rich. I think now with your write up and photos, I will more at ease in doing this and go this route later on when spring is here and I can work in the garage comfortably.

Did I notice in one of your pictures, you indicated new springs in the carbs? What prompted you to replace these if you dont mind me asking?

Thanks for a great write up.

Rick F.

Posted

Hey Rick,

The pic you are referring to is labeled " New Dias and Springs In" My photo program limits the number of characters I can use in the Title of a picture that I save. In actuality, the rubber flexible portion of the diaphragm is the only new component, the sliders, springs, covers and needles are all reused. I did do a really good job of cleaning those babies up so I can understand why you would think they were new. :rotf:

Here is the actual cost for the entire diaphragm rebuild including the re-shimming of the slider needles. (writeup about this coming)

 

4 Ebay Diaphragms $86.00 (with shipping, starting bid was $59.99 you might get lucky)

1 Can Carb. Cleaner $3.00

SS Cap Screws,

Washers for Carb.

Caps $25.00

SS washers for

Slider Needles $1.00

1 Can Bronze

Hammer tone Paint $3.50

1 tube silicone

sealant $3.00 ( thanks again for the tip on the Stainless Steel Condor!)

-----------

Total $121.50

If you can reuse the old Phillips screws and didn't paint the Carb. caps and didn't do the Carb. needle shim mod you would be into this rebuild for just the cost of the new diaphragms, $86.00 or less if you bid well.

Sounds like a deal to me!

Earl

Posted

Can you give us the name of the vendor who supplies these diaphragms on Ebay...or the Ebay reference number...I would be interested in purchasing a set too. I have checked a few imes but don't see it.

Posted

Oops.....sorry......re-read the thread and saw the location and vendor on Ebay....and found it. As usual.....to Canada shipping/handling/fees etc. are at a premium.

Posted

That seller is making a killing because I bet he is getting them for $20.00 but he is the ONLY source for these parts. I have tried searching all over the place to find them. but I cant.

 

that ebay seller is the ONLY source for those rubber pieces.

 

I hope the bidding does not go over 119.00 as that's all I got to spend on a set.

Posted (edited)

When there's only one Supplier on the american Continent, i might be a good Idea to approach him with a well shaped Number of Parts off an Group Buy ? Maybe 25 Sets ? I think this would get the Sellers Attention ?

 

I just checked the Keyster Germany Website. They had the Diaphragm on their Webiste, but it seems they've taken it off and selling Aftermarket (TourMax) complete Sliders only now. Can mean, they make more Money out of that, or the Replacement Diaphragm was not a good Deal for them.

 

I have another Source, i will check .... later ...

Edited by Squeeze
Posted
When there's only one Supplier on the american Continent, i might be a good Idea to approach him with a well shaped Number of Parts off an Group Buy ? Maybe 25 Sets ? I think this would get the Sellers Attention ?

 

I just checked the Keyster Germany Website. They had the Diaphragm on their Webiste, but it seems they've taken it off and selling Aftermarket (TourMax) complete Sliders only now. Can mean, they make more Money out of that, or the Replacement Diaphragm was not a good Deal for them.

 

I have another Source, i will check .... later ...

 

Let us know what you come up with Squeeze. JB already contacted the ebay seller and he stated that he can only get 1 set at a time.... which I think is BS, and as long as he can controll the market he can make a ton.... Kinda like Big Oil... Someone has to be making these in quantity, and unless he has the distribution rights to the US.. which I doubt.. we should be able to go direct with a group buy. And I bet they don't cost more than a couple of bucks apiece. I tried your link for the Japanese company and it came up as a bunch of jiborish. Probably because of the Kanji based figure writing.

Posted (edited)

I really hope so because there is no way that this guy can be the only one in the world with them. and a LOT of 1st gens will be needing these very soon.

 

If we can get the diaphragms only for $10.00 each I'm in for 12 of them. It would be nice to have a set to keep and a set for a friend that has the same carb setup on his bike. Anyone know what the Keyster part number is? I'm going to spend the rest of this week pelting companies that sell their parts to see if they can order them.

Edited by timgray
Posted
Let us know what you come up with Squeeze. JB already contacted the ebay seller and he stated that he can only get 1 set at a time.... which I think is BS, and as long as he can controll the market he can make a ton.... Kinda like Big Oil... Someone has to be making these in quantity, and unless he has the distribution rights to the US.. which I doubt.. we should be able to go direct with a group buy. And I bet they don't cost more than a couple of bucks apiece. I tried your link for the Japanese company and it came up as a bunch of jiborish. Probably because of the Kanji based figure writing.

 

Jack, their Website wasn't any better for me. No Kanji Knowledge or Interpreter here also ...

 

But i think when someone from US or CA takes Contact with them, they can sell the Parts. If not, they could refer to a Dealer which has bought them. The Diaphragm from the XV 535 Virago are the same as 1Gen and Vmax.

 

I checked my other Source in the meantime, there gone there also. So, the best Shot seems to get a Hook to the Company in Japan. Regarding the Price, i won't hold against your Bet.

 

Greg in London referred also to Keyster in his big Thread about Fuel Consumption. They had the Diaphragm for Sale but only a few Parts for the Carbs. Maybe he can chime in here and check his Source in UK. I don't remember the URL he posted.

Posted

I found a canadian motorcycle sales company that carries their carb rebuild kits. I asked them if they can get the diaphrams.

 

If anyone could find out the Keyster part number it would be a lot easier to ask these dealers about them.

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