VMAX Rear for RSV ordered

[Freebird]

Well folks, after riding in the mountains and even general highway speeds on the RSV, I am more than convinced that 5th gear is just too high on these bikes. I actually did an experiment on the way to Colorado. Bob Dakin was riding two up and pulling a trailer also. For a complete tank of gas, I kept my bike in 4th gear as opposed to him running in 5th. At the next fill up, I needed the exact same amount of gas that he did. I am convinced that the overdrive is just too high a gear and are getting us out of the optimum power band.

 

So, this morning I ordered a VMAX rear for my '99 RSV. I ordered it from John Furbur at http://www.rmsportmax.com After I get it, I will do a pictorial on the install, just a direct swap, and will report how it works out. The units that John sells are ready to go, complete with the holes and etc. for your speedo sensors.

 

I am excited about the change and have no doubt that it will be a great thing.

[Squeeze]

Hey Don,

 

congrats on your Decision. I'm confident that you're doing the right Thing to tune your Bike to your personal Satisfaction.

 

I've done exactly the reverse Exchange on my Max after fitted 17 Inch Wheels. This Rims lifted my standard RpM's by about 500. With installing a Venture Rear End, these 500 RpM came back and lowered the Consumption a bit. Plus, because there is plenty of Power, the lower RpM-Level is making the Ride a bit smoother and a bit less louder than before.

 

Only Negative is the Loss of this tiny Bit of Startup-Power at Redlight, but i'm eating up nearly every Contender anyways ... :whistling:

[V7Goose]

Well folks, after riding in the mountains and even general highway speeds on the RSV, I am more than convinced that 5th gear is just too high on these bikes. I actually did an experiment on the way to Colorado. Bob Dakin was riding two up and pulling a trailer also. For a complete tank of gas, I kept my bike in 4th gear as opposed to him running in 5th. At the next fill up, I needed the exact same amount of gas that he did. I am convinced that the overdrive is just too high a gear and are getting us out of the optimum power band.

 

I am excited about the change and have no doubt that it will be a great thing.

Don, I did that same test (one tank without ever going into 5th) last year, but my results were VERY different! But I wasn't comparing it to someone dragging a trailer, just to my own every day gas mileage. I did most of th tank on the highway at 75-80, where I normally get about 37 MPG. Running without ever using 5th, I only got about 30 MPG for that tank. I think I posted this back when I did it.

 

Anyway, good luck with your choice - I look forward to reading about your results.

Goose

[Monsta]

Well I'm excited for you! There was V-Max rear gear on eBay a couple days ago that I almost snagged but not knowing how to go about the gear swap or making the hole for the speedo pickup I chickened out. Course him not willing to ship to Hawaii made my decision a bit easier.

 

Good luck! I look forward to the write up. Changing gearing is ALWAYS a better bang for your buck performance improvement not matter what vehicle you're driving.

[Yammer Dan]

Memory of Charlie still burn a little????

[juggler]

OK, I admit I'm not a real gear head.

 

How does the VMax rear end differ from the RSV rear end? And, wouldn't changing the gearing in the transmission be a better option? If even possible.

 

:think::confused24:

[pegscraper]

The Venture has a 10/33 gear ratio and the V Max has a 9/33 ratio. The V Max gearing lets the engine run a little faster for a given road speed. Gear ratios can be played with in the transmission or the rear end with the same ultimate result. But changing the rear gear is MUCH easier than changing the transmission gearing. Besides, the only other transmission ratios available would be those from a 1st gen, where 1st gear is about the same, but high gear is quite a bit lower, and then you'd buy yourself into a 2nd gear slipping problem besides. (Incidentally, lower gear ratios in the transmission is the only reason that 1st gens are any faster at all than the 2nds, if they actually are, which I don't believe anyway.)

 

Don, you won't be sorry you did it. The OD on these bikes, and most new vehicles, is way too tall. As you found out, running an OD does not always mean that gas mileage will go up. Usually all it means is that performance goes down as the engine is running too slow and lugs over any slight upgrade.

[Spud]

The thing about changing the read end is that it affects ALL of the gears in the transmission not just the overdrive.

 

I've often thought that our RSV is too low in all gears and I'd be very interested in this. I'd like the engine to rev higher in all gears. Easier take off, easier around town and I don't think the fuel economy will be effected all that much.

[juggler]

Ok, so the end result here is the engine RPM's will be higher in each gear before you need to shift? From what I know about these V-4's is that they like higher RPM's.

 

Sounds like a good idea. It will be interesting to see if you feel more power. It would be real nice if you could bench mark your performance numbers on a dyno before you change out the rear end and then check your performance increase afterwards.

[Freebird]

Sorry...I'm sure I won't be doing a Dyno but I will check RPMs at various speeds to compare the before and after. I have no doubt at all that this is going to be a major improvement over the stock setup.

[Monsta]

You can't dyno to see HP improvements as there won't be any. A 3.67:1 V-Max rear is just a bit deeper than the RSV's 3.30:1 rear. The 11% difference should manifest a nice "butt-dyno" improvement.

 

Performance comparisons in tests such as 0-60, 30-50 etc. etc. would be a better indicator.

[Phaedrus]

You don't need a dyno, just a buddy with a stopwatch and a road with a mile marker. Check your times in the quarter mile before and after the change, as well as your time for a 30 to 60 roll on in fourth gear, and 50 to 80 roll on in top gear. Old school man.

[flb_78]

The dyno runs will most likely show a LOSS of horsepower but a gain in TORQUE, which is really what these engines need, more TORQUE!

[Monsta]

A dyno won't reveal ANY changes. A dynomometer measures engine torque. New gearing doesn't affect torque output. It will, however, change where the torque output is on a "road speed" scale.

[Squeeze]

A dyno won't reveal ANY changes. A dynomometer measures engine torque. New gearing doesn't affect torque output. It will, however, change where the torque output is on a "road speed" scale.

 

That's it ...

 

When changing the final Drive Ratio, the actual Loss or Gain is at Topspeed. The 2Gen will have a lower Topspeed in 5th, my Max gained Topspeed.

 

Don, you can calculate the Speed in Gears, by using this small Proggie, http://www.schmidt-sven.de/page/geardata.zip

 

Just enter all the Data of your 2Gen, provided by the Manual, don't forget, there is also a Ratio in the middle Drive Gears, 21/27 on the 1Gen and Maxxes, and precompute them in the primary Ratio, then you can enter the actual Gear-Ratio,10/33 or 9/33, in the secondary and directly compare the Output Sheets by convert the .bmp Output-File in gif, add Transparency and lay them over each other in Photoshop or a similiar Program.

 

Short Translation of the Parameters you need to enter:

Felgendurchmesser - Rim-Diameter

Reifenbreite - Tire width in mm

Querschnitt - the Tire-Width/Height Ratio

Schlupf - Tire Slipage vs Ground 3 Percent is standard for Motorcycles, when you go faster than 260 km/h, you need to increase that Value to at least 4.5 Percent

Reifenumfang - Tire-Circumference

Ritzel - front Gear of the secondary Gear Ratio here it's 9 or 10

Kettenrad - rear Gear of the sondary Gear Ratio, thats 33

Primär - here's to enter the computed Value from primary Reduction and middle drive Gears

Gänge - here is to enter the Ratios of each Trans-Gear first to 6th Gear, we dont need the 6th, so shut that off in the last Column

bottom left can a Pointer be set an a specific Gear and RpM

Berechnen - press to compute the Data ...

 

Sorry there is no english Version, it's all in german and with metric values ...

[Guest JGorom]

That's it...When changing the final Drive Ratio, the actual Loss or Gain is at Topspeed. The 2Gen will have a lower Topspeed in 5th, my Max gained Topspeed.

 

The question I have is this...since overdrive on the Venture appears to be set too high...i.e., you have to reach a high speed to effectively use 5th (overdrive) without lugging the engine...will this change to VMax gearing...reduce the speed you have to be at in order to effectively and efficiently move into 5th gear (overdrive) without lugging your engine. Any takers here?

 

I could give up some top end speed as long as I am not lugging the engine by being in 5th (overdrive) at say 60 to 65 mph.

[Squeeze]

The question I have is this...since overdrive on the Venture appears to be set too high...i.e., you have to reach a high speed to effectively use 5th (overdrive) without lugging the engine...will this change to VMax gearing...reduce the speed you have to be at in order to effectively and efficiently move into 5th gear (overdrive) without lugging your engine. Any takers here?

 

..

 

I'm not 100 Percent sure about my Understanding of your Question, but ...

 

i'd say yeah, that's what's happening.

 

If you traveled at 60 mph at, maybe 2800 RpM, after the exchange, the RpM at 60 raises to 3300. Please don't keep my for the Value's at all, i don't know the Facts of the 2Gen.

 

On the Max the Drop at a given Speed in 5th Gear is actually 500 RpM. The Exchange on a 1Gen would rise the RpM for the same 500 RpM.

[Freebird]

That is exactly right and is why I am doing this. At present time, I'm running about 3100 RPM at 70 MPH in 5th gear. NOTE: This is actual speed as I have the Speedohealer installed and calibrated. Your indicated speeds will be about 7 1/2% higher. The VMAX rear should put me at about 3600 RPM at the same speed in 5th gear. That is a MUCH better RPM range for staying in the power band of these bikes. On the way to Fort Collins, there was a first gen riding with us and he was running 4000 RPM in 5th gear. I ran one entire tank of gas in 4th gear at 70 MPH and my RPMs were exactly 4000, same as the first gen running in 5th gear. I don't know if 4000 in 5th is normal for a first gen or not. He may be running a VMAX rear also, I doubt it though.

 

At any rate, the 4000 RPM in 4th did very well but I think that 3600 will be perfect.

 

Coming home, I've been running 80 MPH most of the time. Riding one up and pulling the trailer. Fighting a heavy headwind, I've found myself at full throttle a number if times while climbing small but long hills and have actually had to downshift quiet a few times to maintain speed. I am confident that the change to the VMAX rear will be a fantastic improvement for our bikes. I am also confident that in the same riding conditions, fuel mileage will actually improve. When you are lugging the engine in these situations and those carbs are wide open, you are really sucking the gas.

[BuddyRich]

Really interested in this when you get it done. 5th is kinda usless for getupandgo....

[juggler]

Hmmm... keep this discussion going. I'm reading, taking notes and learning new stuff. That's why I like this place.

 

I sure wouldn't mind losing a few miles per hour off the top speed. I've never been to top speed and I don't ever plan to get there. I do however like to travel at the legal speed and most of the time I'm running right at the bottom range for 5th gear and feeling little power if I try to accelerate until the RPM's reach a certain point.

[Yammer Dan]

EASY FIX

 

Buy a 1st Gen

 

 

[awsmsrv]

Which 1 are you going with? I went to their website & there is the MAX-RS listed under Royal Star & MAX-Venture listed under Venture. Both descriptions are exactly the same. Are they, in fact, the same? This interests me a lot, too. Thanks. PS - Welcome home.

[Freebird]

I'm not sure. I emailed and talked to him on the telephone so really not sure which one it would have been on the site. He is shipping mine on Monday so I should get it installed next weekend and take it for a trial run.

[1BigDog]

Good grief.......now I need another 300.00 bucks for another upgrade!!! It never ends.....:rotf::rotf::confused24::confused24:

[PITBULL]

The Venture has a 10/33 gear ratio and the V Max has a 9/33 ratio. The V Max gearing lets the engine run a little faster for a given road speed. Gear ratios can be played with in the transmission or the rear end with the same ultimate result. But changing the rear gear is MUCH easier than changing the transmission gearing. Besides, the only other transmission ratios available would be those from a 1st gen, where 1st gear is about the same, but high gear is quite a bit lower, and then you'd buy yourself into a 2nd gear slipping problem besides. (Incidentally, lower gear ratios in the transmission is the only reason that 1st gens are any faster at all than the 2nds, if they actually are, which I don't believe anyway.)

 

Don, you won't be sorry you did it. The OD on these bikes, and most new vehicles, is way too tall. As you found out, running an OD does not always mean that gas mileage will go up. Usually all it means is that performance goes down as the engine is running too slow and lugs over any slight upgrade.

 

You dont believe the 1st gens are faster than the 2nd gens? Well I have ridden both and I will tell you that my 1983 will run circles around a 2nd gen. As far as top speed, I didnt take the 2nd gen out and run it that hard being that it didnt belong to me BUT I did get on it a bit and I will tell you that there is NO WAY that a 2nd gen will keep up with the acceleration of my first gen. No way. Lets just say that the top speed of both bikes is 130mph...i picked that because I have had my bike in that range a few times.... ( dont tell the wife cuz she would absolutley freak) anyway the 1st gen. would hit that mark alot quicker. Whens the last time you saw a 2nd gen. pull the wheel in the first 2 gears???? BUT the 2nd gen in WAY more comfy. In all reality as long as your bike can approch the 100 mph mark and not be over worked...does it really matter? The first gen is a quicker bike and maybe more manuverable but the second gen would be my hands down choice to go cross country.