brakeline rerouting??

[bikerjohn51]

this is the first big bike I've owned and last year when I changed the brake pads I discovered the the back brake is linked to the front left brake, and the front right side is tied to antidive ???, my question is this " is it possible to interchange the brake lines ,so that the antidive portion is tied to the front, and that the 2 front brakes are together?" I do not like the front and back tied together, because when I pull into my driveway, I am on gravel and the front slides out from under me, if I come in too fast !! same on corners on gravel roads........ don't worry, I'll be easy on the front brakes, if I make the change. on smaller bikes I never used the fronts at all.

[GeorgeS]

The Anti dive solinoids are electric.

 

Some folks have linked the two front discs to the Front Resoviour.

And set up the rear to work with just the foot pedal.

 

However the general aggreement among most members here is that this is not advisable.

 

It has been discussed many times. If you are really going to do it best to talk with sombody who allready has.

 

However, if the Calipers are rebuilt , and the pads replaced, and system working properly you should not have a problem.

 

The best improvement to brakes on this bike, is to Install the Calipers from the Yamaha R-6 or R-1. They are direct replacements, and work better.

[Snaggletooth]

Howdy Bikerjohn51.

 

I'm of the same frame of thought as you are on the brakes. I like old school back is back and front is front. I was going to modify my '84 to that system but decided to experiment a little first. The proportioning valve on the rear master is set for 30/70. 30% to the rear and 70% to the front. This is fixed. No adjustment. BUT..... the way the valve is built to operate as you start to apply pressure it begins to activtes the rear brake first. As pressure increase the plunger inside the valve starts to change positions and begins to open the line up to the front left caliper. As you added pressure to the brake pedal the valve opens up and the 30/70 split takes place.

 

After I rebuilt all the calipers and changed out brake pads I got use to the feel of it.

 

The change you want to make is possible and several have done it. It works. But with these beasts weighing in at 850 or better, the linked brakes are a plus to have.

 

Mike

[Venturous Randy]

John, as already said, the linked braking system works good, especially on these big heavy bikes.

Seveal things to consider, when slowing down quickly, about 70% of your braking effectiveness comes from the front brake. If, in an emergency stop you revert back to habit rather than being able to do a feel for the best "front to back" pressures, you will definately compromise maximum braking effectiveness. When linked, it is automatic.

Anytime on gravel, using brakes or not, you have to give into the law of bearings and friction. When on gravel, it can be like a bearing with minimal friction. Minimal friction on a bike, especially one as big and top heavy as ours is not a good thing.

RandyA

[lonestarmedic]

It is possible to reroute the brakes to separated front and rear. I did my 1986 this summer and I like the result. However, I also installed R-1 calipers on the front and rear. It takes new lines, a couple banjo bolts, and a front splitter. SkyDoc 17 and I used a V-Max splitter and front lines. I installed a new stainless steel line from the front M/C to the splitter at the same time. I have since upgraded to all stainless lines. I did not notice a difference in performance from the rubber to the stainless lines. I did notice an increase in performance when I put the R-1 caliper on the rear. You use a left front R-1 caliper on the rear. R-6 calipers also work. If you want to tackle this, SkyDoc17 and I have a couple write ups. He has pictures on his profile page.

 

Do this modification only after careful consideration. The stock set up works great for most people! Also, don't destroy any old parts in case you want to go back.

JB

[GaryZ]

I think there is one very good reason to unlink the brakes of my 85VR. It is one of three motorcycles that I own and ride. It is the only one with linked brakes. Although there will be defenders-of-the-linked-brakes that will disagree, the fact is I want all of my bikes to have similar brake systems to avoid potential brain-fade in an emergency braking situation.

 

I am well trained in the correct application of unlinked brakes and I prefer them. My 85VR will be unlinked as soon as I locate a suitable front brake splitter.

[skydoc_17]

I wanted to address GaryZ's comment first, Gary you will need an entire front line set from a late model VMAX including the splitter to separate your Linked brakes. Also the R1/R6 calipers WILL NOT FIT the front of your MK1 (83-85) bike. The hole pattern for the brake mounts are 80MM and the MK2 VR (86-93) as well as the R1/R6 is 100MM. Second, you will need to re-plumb the rear master cylinder and decide if you want to keep the proportioning valve and choose weather or not you are going to use the feed for the front left or rear position on the rear master cylinder.

Now for BikerJohn51's comment, I too have another scoot that uses the conventional braking system and thats ONE of the reasons I de-linked my brakes on my 87' VR. The other reason was the cost of rebuilding all of the original VR calipers. I wanted to mention that it is the right front caliper from the R1/R6 that fits the rear of the MK2 VR, NOT the left front caliper from the R1/R6.

I have a 1986 VR with linked brakes in tip top shape and a 1987 VR with de-linked brakes and R1/R6 calipers and the 87' VR stops faster, PERIOD!

I realize that this is a touchy subject for many members and as I have said before, If you have a First Gen. VR and you keep your linked brake system in tip top shape I have the up most respect for you, I only offer this post to expose other people to what has worked well for me, and the way I ride my bike. Nothing more. I am willing to chat with anyone who is interested in doing the swap and have pics and notes in my photo album.

Earl

[lonestarmedic]

Sorry Earl-

Brain fart - I meant my OTHER Right!!

 

JB

[lonestarmedic]

Earl - I removed the proportioner on the rear and installed a new line and single fitting banjo bolt. I am using the Goodridge lines and fittings on my bike. The adjustable AN fitting banjo ends made alignment a snap.

 

John - I am not sure if you will get the desired performance out of your 1985 when it is de-linked. You will have to eliminate or re-plumb the ant- dive. After that, you may need to install new front springs from Progressive or the like to avoid excessive fork compression. I found that with 2 calipers on the front working full strength my front suspension did react differently.

 

I agree on the aspect of riding de-linked. I have always had separated brakes. I like the ability to control my braking in turns and on gravel much better now.

 

JB

[bikerjohn51]

WOW i didn't realize there was such contraversy over this subject, but I prefer to have control over which set of brakes gets applied, not some proportioner. I can see and feel the road conditions...... not some mechanical device.

I was hoping it would have been as simple as putting a splitter from the other side of the front brake and plugging/capping the existing feed to the right side front......Earl has kindly offered advice on a change over that works, and I will look at any other ideas out there......I am mechanically inclined and will be equally confused as to which has the best merits....... bottom line.... I have slid the front end out from under me twice at very low speeds 2MPH or less, in the first 3 months I owned the bike, and never knew why until I redid the brakes last winter ( the first winter I owned and did maintenence). In Canada , with riding as early as we can...... we get into sand from the winter still being on the road, and late fall, we have the wet leaves on the road to contend with...AGAIN, I want to control the braking Thanks again john

[GeorgeS]

1st Gen Ventures DO NOT like Dirt, or Gravel Roads !! I avoid them !!!!!

 

I got caught on dirt , gravel roads a couple times. I don't think there is a fix.

 

That does not mean sombody can't do it, but I ain't going to. Never again.

[GaryZ]

I wanted to address GaryZ's comment first, Gary you will need an entire front line set from a late model VMAX including the splitter to separate your Linked brakes . . . Second, you will need to re-plumb the rear master cylinder and decide if you want to keep the proportioning valve and choose weather or not you are going to use the feed for the front left or rear position on the rear master cylinder. Earl

 

Thanks Earl, I have been wondering if someone would step up and admit to making this change. Another forum simply sealed the rear brake feed to the front and split the front brake master. I have acquired a front splitter and hoses from a Kawasaki GPZ1100. I have not yet examined the fittings to see if they will actually fit the VR. I need a warm day . . .

[GaryZ]

John - I am not sure if you will get the desired performance out of your 1985 when it is de-linked. You will have to eliminate or re-plumb the ant- dive. After that, you may need to install new front springs from Progressive or the like to avoid excessive fork compression. I found that with 2 calipers on the front working full strength my front suspension did react differently.

 

I agree on the aspect of riding de-linked. I have always had separated brakes. I like the ability to control my braking in turns and on gravel much better now.

 

JB

 

Why would the anti-dive work any different?

I am absolutely agreeing with the gravel thing. It is beyond me how anyone would want to ride downhill on a gravel road or driveway using ANY front brake! GaryZ

[lonestarmedic]

GaryZ-

 

The anti-dive on the 1983-1985 is run off of the brake hydraulics. I am not sure how it will act with the different pressure. The 83-85 has adjustment for pressure to the anti-dive on the bottom. The 1986-1993 has electric solenoids for the anti-dive.

 

The fittings on the 1st Gen are standard 10mm banjo ends. The banjo bolts are 10mm x 1.25 thread. I got my hoses from the local crotch rocket speed shot. Same with the copper washers. I think I paid about $1.00 for 4 washers. Beats the heck out of the Yamaha washer. Also, the fancy chrome banjo bolts available from aftermarket will work if you need them.

 

JB

[skydoc_17]

Hey GaryZ,

Thank you for the kind words. I don't see any reason why the line set from that Kawasaki GPZ1100 won't work. If I remember correctly, the VR banjo bolts should fit the ends of the Kawi line set nicely. You will need to fab a plate to mount the splitter to the front forks of the VR where the old splitter was. the bolt pattern for the new splitter and the old one are not the same. I could make one for you if you like. PM me if interested. I too removed the proportioning valve on the rear of my 87' VR but used the exit hole for the left front brake (upper hole) because the orifice was larger. The other benefit you get when de-linking the brakes on the VR is you can bleed both front and rear brakes in 15 minutes. I did add speed bleeders to all three calipers and they worked like a champ. My offer still stands, If I can walk you thru this swap, I would be happy to help.

Brake Safe,

Earl

[CrazyHorse]

this is the first big bike I've owned and last year when I changed the brake pads I discovered the the back brake is linked to the front left brake, and the front right side is tied to antidive ???, my question is this " is it possible to interchange the brake lines ,so that the antidive portion is tied to the front, and that the 2 front brakes are together?" I do not like the front and back tied together, because when I pull into my driveway, I am on gravel and the front slides out from under me, if I come in too fast !! same on corners on gravel roads........ don't worry, I'll be easy on the front brakes, if I make the change. on smaller bikes I never used the fronts at all.

 

 

I am a proponent of delinking on 1st Gen's. I dont like the feel of them in slow turns,wet conditions or gravel. I want the final say of which brake does what and when. I use my front brakes for just about everything even trailbraking into turns. ( I use both brakes for info most of the time) Now wet or loose surfaces I use less or none. With these bikes having pegs and a small foot rear brake I find it hard to lock the rear brake while delinked. (On a 2nd Gen with forward controls and huge rear brake pedal linking might not be bad I feel that huge pedal like a car and your foot in a similar position to a car you can place a large amount of force with your feet in that position. I cant place that much pressure turning my foot down from the peg especially if I lower the pedal a little lower.)

 

Delinking is a fairly easy project you can either keep of get rid of the proportioning valve located at rear master cylinder area if you keep it you will have to plug one side. I used stainless steel plastic coated brake lines. I put on R1 calipers on the front with a tee fitting above that and replaced the front master with GSXR600/750 master with adjustable lever (some people use the standard front master I liked the GSXR with the adjustable handle better) You need to get rid of the steel brake line that runs up the right side of the frame and the metering valve under the neck and the brake line to the front master. Now your gonna need all new lines. I measured the distances with a string but you also have to take into account the steering movements from side to side in your calculation you dont want the lines to short.

 

My ideal bike would have a brake setup that is not linked but with ABS that can be turned off when you want to BMW does this somewhat. In wet weather I would use them dry weather I wouldnt.

 

I feel I have better braking delinked then the linked setup. This is my opinion and many disagree with that which I'm Ok with.

 

On your 1988 antidive not tied in. I do worry that you say you only use the rear brake on smaller bikes and if you carry that over to big bikes maybe delinking is not for you. You need to make a habit of using the fronts which is 70% of your braking force.

Edited January 27, 2009 by CrazyHorse

[jasonm.]

I de-linked my brakes way before most ever thought of it. One important thing. The front calipers have different size pistons, left 32mm, right 34mm. Thus one set of pads in front will wear faster than the other. If you change calipers. You need to find ones that will fit the thicker discs of the Venture. I used FJ1200 calipers because they take the same pads as the 1300 Venture and the pistons were the same as the left side stock caliper 32mm. So I would have spare parts if needed. BUT I still had to use my dremel and center the calipers. CENTERING is important. FYI- no matter which brake you touch the electronic anti-dive works on both forks. Mine are on a manual switch(usually off). With progressive springs I really don't need the anti-dive. Plus antidive stiffens the front too much for me in the corners when I need the brakes.

Edited January 31, 2009 by jasonm.