ABS brakes

[mechanicjesus]

I am thinking about looking for something with ABS to replace the Venture. I have never been very comfortable trying to bring that heavy bike to a quick stop when it is loaded with gear and a passenger.

I am 6'6" and need some room so I don't think a goldwing or BMW would be an option any body have some experience with any of the other choices. From what I have seen so far it is looking like Harley may be the only real choice. Let me hear your thoughts.

[midnightventure]

I am thinking about making my next big bike an ABS bike too. The problem is that I will ride this one until it is wore out and that might be a long time.

[Mariner Fan]

Good luck on your hunt. Your even taller than me, and I found all the bikes you mentioned to be cramped in the driver's cockpit.

 

It's tough because most folks are much shorter than you and the size of motorcycles reflect that. I was wondering if the third generation Venture will be smaller as well.

 

It happened with the Goldwing, so I wouldn't be surprised.

[stardbog]

I Doubt thats possible to add ABS to our bikes, and if is possible will cost same as a bike itself ( Or close ). Better way to improve braking is aftermarket disks, and brake pads, as well practice of breaking skills, of corse off highway. Downshifting, clutching and proper use of both brakes will stop you on dime. Cheeper way is to sign for experience rider course at your local motorcycle school, Or watch "Ride like Pro" DVD and Practice your self.

[KiteSquid]

Does the 2nd Gen Vmax have ABS? If it does, I would bet that it will be on the 3rd Gen RSV, if it is manufactured.

 

you might want to wait a year or two.

 

In that time, take a MSF riders course, and practice hard breaking in a closed course (like a parking lot at a sports stadium on a night there is no game)!!!!

 

With practice, you will find that the RSV does a GREAT job of stopping!!!!!

 

I am a true believer that all vehicles should be able to quickly accelerate, but all vehicles MUST stop quicker!!!!!!!!

[RossKean]

...I am 6'6" and need some room so I don't think a goldwing or BMW would be an option any body have some experience with any of the other choices. From what I have seen so far it is looking like Harley may be the only real choice. Let me hear your thoughts.

 

I'm "only" 6'3" and I share your opinion about rider room on the Goldwing; I haven't tried the BMW. MAybe one would get used to the GW after a time, specially with hwy pegs and floorboards?? Haven't ridden a Harley (Ultra Classic) for much distance but I think there is a bit less rider room than the Venture. In any case, I don't think I would go back to a v-twin after the Venture. I haven't had any real problem stopping on the Venture but I have to say, I would like the security of ABS in an emergency situation.

 

Ross

[OB-1]

No offense intended, but you may want to take a riding course or two before spending the money on a new bike. The RSV has very good brakes.

[mechanicjesus]

it is not a problem of the brakes not being good quite the opposite when you have the bike fully loaded it very difficult to bring it to a quick stop with out locking a brake. I am not saying I can't do it just saying in a emergency situation I would rather be able to grab all the brake I can with out having to worry if I am applying too much pressure.

[pegscraper]

If you'd like more braking power on your current bike, the R1 caliper swap gives a huge improvement. It's the same system they're putting on all the other new models anyway, that aren't even as heavy. Why do they give their heaviest bike the weakest brake system? This system gives you a lot more control before the brakes lock up.

[RedRider]

You can get custom seats for both the Goldwing and BMW (and I'm sure the Harley too) that will scoot you back some. I have a friend that is a true 7' and he fits fine on a Wing with his custom seat. I sit on his bike and I can't even reach his highway pegs - and I'm 6'4"!

 

Good luck in whatever you choose.

 

RR

[GeorgeS]

Ok, I know the R-1 , R-6 brakes will fit the 1st Gens, Do they also fit on the 2nd gen Ventures ? Just currious.

 

I seriously thinking about doing that mod on my 89. Amoung other projects.

Just wondering about 2nd gen's , if this will work on them also.

[hig4s]

I am thinking about looking for something with ABS to replace the Venture. I have never been very comfortable trying to bring that heavy bike to a quick stop when it is loaded with gear and a passenger.

I am 6'6" and need some room so I don't think a goldwing or BMW would be an option any body have some experience with any of the other choices. From what I have seen so far it is looking like Harley may be the only real choice. Let me hear your thoughts.

 

Have you rode a BMW LT,, the older ones a lot of people complained they seemed too big, so the newer ones, 06 or 07 and up, have lower seats. I'm sure you can still get the taller seat, and they have some very nice fold out hwy pegs for them..

 

Have you sat on the Harley, it is a full 4 inches shorter than the Venture, it has the same wheelbase as a Yamaha V-star 650.

 

There is also the new Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager it has ABS.

I don't think the Victory Vision has ABS.

 

And the final thought, the EPA standards change for 2010 and Yamaha will either have to change the Venture or drop it. You could wait to see if they update it significantly.

[Midnight]

I am 6'6". Before purchasing my 2007 venture I rode the Gold Wing and the Electra Glide as well as the a venture. The Gold wing was very cramped. The venture had the most leg room and seat comfort for me but I wanted to be sure. We rented a HD electra glide for 5 days as it was the closest thing to the venture for leg room etc. I was still sold on the venture after that ride. The only thing I see out there now that looks interesting is the Victory Vision. I am hoping to get an opportunity to try it.

Like every other venture owner I to wish it had better safety features such as ABS and better rear lighting. I just practice those emergency stops and hope that when I do have to grind it to a halt I can. Hope this helps. JR

[pegscraper]

Ok, I know the R-1, R-6 brakes will fit the 1st Gens, do they also fit on the 2nd gen Ventures? Just curious.

 

Yes they do.

[rod]

Like I tell the students, practice, practice, and when you are done more practice. The Venture is a bit of a hand full but using proper technique it brakes well and controlled. I use the Venture when I teach the ERC and it took some practice but I can handle it just fine. I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs. hang in there and you will be fine. Rod

[Rick Butler]

You know guys,

 

This subject just keeps coming back around, doesn't it. But our bike has not only one problem, but two. With 2 piston calipers, the front brakes are not as adequate as they should be for a bike this large. Then the 4-piston rear caliper is much too much stopping power for the rear wheel, when we all know that over 70% of your stopping power is in the front brakes. So this means we need better brakes on the front (ie earlier R1 & R6 4 piston calipers) and a weaker brake for the rear. You can see this on the RoadStar Warrior and even the Road and Statoliners with a 1 piston rear calper. So this really means that we can readily replace the front calipers but not the rear.

 

Yes, ideally ABS or at least (or both) linked brakes would the optimum solution. But the solution I developed over 2 years ago has served me and a few others well in taming this rear brake of ours. I won't go any further but if you don't know about this, do a search on "Proportioning Valve" or the "Butler Mod".

 

Of course this isn't the only solution, where you can just forget that you even have a rear brake and not worry about a rear brake lockup?

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[mechanicjesus]

Rick, I have have seen what you have done and am impressed with the work and reserch you put in to it. However I don't want to modify an OEM brake system I am just not comfortable with the liability that potentiality could exist from doing this.

[TEW47]

Try using just the toes of your boot, not with the ball of your foot. Just keep your heel on the floorboards and pivot your foot around and use the toe of your boot to brake. If you use the ball of you foot you will be putting to much pressure on the brake.

 

tew47

[Pilot]

I am thinking about looking for something with ABS to replace the Venture. I have never been very comfortable trying to bring that heavy bike to a quick stop when it is loaded with gear and a passenger.

I am 6'6" and need some room so I don't think a goldwing or BMW would be an option any body have some experience with any of the other choices. From what I have seen so far it is looking like Harley may be the only real choice. Let me hear your thoughts.

 

Take a 09 Ultra for a ride. They should be available this year in the rental fleet. You CAN'T lock up the breaks....I tried. You will also notice a BIG differance in slow speed handling. It does have less cockpit room but you will get used to it, I did and I'm 6'.

 

Now as far as a riding course goes, take the advanced course I did. I have to say that even knowing how to stop in a panic situation the Ultra will outdo the Venture any day, but to be fair the Ultra has ABS.

 

The reason I switched was the same as yours I wanted a bike that was more up to date in the technology dept. I hope Yamaha updates the Venture some day, if they do I will look at trading back I loved the Venture I just wanted more technology and ABS was the deciding factor. I do not like the cockpit on the Wing although it is a very good handling bike.

 

And one other thing the Venture has that 5 year warranty thing, some thing you want to think about. It will cost you an addition $1200.00 to get that on a Harley.

 

Happy hunting.

[Rick Butler]

Rick, I have have seen what you have done and am impressed with the work and reserch you put in to it. However I don't want to modify an OEM brake system I am just not comfortable with the liability that potentiality could exist from doing this.

 

Yeah,

 

I completely understand your concern about the liability issue. How do you think I feel even thinking about offering my solution to the rest of you? But after I had been running with it for a while, I was still seeing there were folks suffering from rear brake anxiety and even rear brake accidents (like I had suffered from). So I decided to say the hell with it and go forward with it anyway for those who wanted to pursue this solution.

 

I just wish Yamaha would have offered up a solution and changed out the rear caliper for a milder 1-piston like they put on the Road and Stratoliners. But thier lawyers won't let them because that would be admitting guilt or product liability. However, they did change up the front calipers on the 2004 Road Star (to 4-pistons) but still kept the 4-piston rear? In fact I even send them a rather lengthy letter advising them of this issue. But I did get a nice letter thanking me for my input and that they would pass it on to their proper people.

 

Then after a good friend of mine went down on a RSTD because of this and we had to leave him in a Odessa, TX hospital for another week, I decided to contact a motorcycle lawyer. My idea at the time was to pursue a nation-wide product liability law suit because I knew there were countless of us who had suffered and even died because this issue. But when I talked to them and realized that there was a statute of limitations on the time and that law suits vary from state to state, I decided to drop it. Besides most of us have health and bike insurance, so unless we are not tore up too bad we'll be ok and probably get back into the saddle.

 

But like several have mentioned, we really need to use proper braking techniques and practice them. However who really likes to practice a 60mph emergency stop unless thier life is in jeopardy? The big problem is that we also drive 4 wheelers and when somthing jumps out in front of us, what do we instinctively do? Right, hammer that brake pedal. But on our autos, most of us today have ABS brakes and since the 70s we all have a proportioning valve system to limit the flow of fluid to the rear brakes and even send more to the front brakes, where all the stopping power is. So sometimes our brains just react and **** happens, regardless of all of our training.

 

But back to your issue of not wanting to modify a OEM brake system. Do you realize than even changing out your brake lines for stainless is one of those drastic changes, not to even mention changing out brake calipers? The idea for my solution came from the hot rod industry where these folks didn't want their rear brakes locking sooner than expected either. And by the fact that it's an adjustable flow control valve (and doesn't reduce pressure) you can adjust it to suit your individual needs.

 

Sorry for getting long winded on this issue, but that's just the way I get sometimes

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[hig4s]

If you'd like more braking power on your current bike, the R1 caliper swap gives a huge improvement. It's the same system they're putting on all the other new models anyway, that aren't even as heavy. Why do they give their heaviest bike the weakest brake system? This system gives you a lot more control before the brakes lock up.

 

How much trouble is this,,, is there a write up some where?

[KiteSquid]

And one other thing the Venture has that 5 year warranty thing, some thing you want to think about. It will cost you an addition $1200.00 to get that on a Harley.

 

2009 RSV MSRP $18,190-18,690

 

2009 H-D Ultra Classic $20,990-$$$$$$$$$$$$ Plus $795 for the ABS

 

So before options you will spend $4,000 less on a new RSV (at MSRP, but who pays that???? not me, in 2007 I got my NEW 2007 RSV for $13,800) than a H-D Ultra Classic with 5 year warranty and without ABS....

 

 

BTW does anybody want a Pan Head?

[Danimal]

The Victory Vision has the most room available. imho I'm six four and was really comfortable on it. Just not my cup of tea as far as looks go. It ain't cheap either! But sometimes big guys just have to go for comfort instead of looks. (Think big mans clothing) Not alot of choices for us sometimes. The roomiest bike I ever owned was a Kawasaki drifter 1500 it had a ton of room. But no trunk, radio, cruise, and no cassette deck either. Alot of my Harley friends claim they got used to the ultra's size though and they are big too. Best of luck in your search. Danimal

[CrazyHorse]

 

But like several have mentioned, we really need to use proper braking techniques and practice them. However who really likes to practice a 60mph emergency stop unless thier life is in jeopardy? The big problem is that we also drive 4 wheelers and when somthing jumps out in front of us, what do we instinctively do? Right, hammer that brake pedal. But on our autos, most of us today have ABS brakes and since the 70s we all have a proportioning valve system to limit the flow of fluid to the rear brakes and even send more to the front brakes, where all the stopping power is. So sometimes our brains just react and **** happens, regardless of all of our training.

 

 

Have to agree but I think a big part of the problem is a forward foot position (2nd Gen Harley etc) and a large rear brake pedal like a car. This is my opinion (which aint worth much) encourages a rider to try to stop a bike like a car. Your sitting there like a car feet stretched out like a car. I find it much harder to lock the rear brake with a peg foot position and the small rear brake pedal like (1ST Gen) encouraging using more front brake to stop. You just dont have the same foot force trying to force the brake down instead of forward. My brakes are delinked.

 

But back to your issue of not wanting to modify a OEM brake system. Do you realize than even changing out your brake lines for stainless is one of those drastic changes, not to even mention changing out brake calipers? The idea for my solution came from the hot rod industry where these folks didn't want their rear brakes locking sooner than expected either. And by the fact that it's an adjustable flow control valve (and doesn't reduce pressure) you can adjust it to suit your individual needs.

 

Rick

 

I think this is a very good solution especially for people on bikes with a forward foot position to help lower the force of your rear braking in an emergency. I wouldnt worry about liability if your the only one driving it. I applaud Rick for coming up with it, thinking out of the box. I think this is a viable soultion better then linking which I dont care for because I like individual control of each brake and I dont want a chance of locking that front wheel in poor road conditions like wet or gravely.

 

I'm also a believer in practicing hard braking from significant speed because a person will likey revert to whatever they have practiced but as a back up to that Ricks solution is a good one.

 

 

 

Harleys have very good ABS I've tried in heavy rain to lose control and they worked great but they are smaller then the (2nd Gen).

Edited January 26, 2009 by CrazyHorse

[pegscraper]

How much trouble is this,,, is there a write up some where?

 

There are threads on it, but it's difficult to search because R1 is too short of a search term and gets thrown out.

 

The job very easy. All you do is unbolt one set of calipers and bolt on the others. Also, you need to swap the master cylinder from a newer Roadstar. The style matches our stock ones, but it has a 14mm piston instead of the stock 5/8" one, and it works much better with the R1 calipers. Then bleed out the lines and you're done. For a finishing touch, get some R1 floating rotors too, but they're not absolutely necessary. Buy used parts on ebay or somewhere, then sell off your old parts, and you'll have hardly anything in the swap, and you'll get brakes that you can operate with two fingers.

Edited January 26, 2009 by pegscraper