Ignition Switch

[frankc]

Can someone please direct me to the thread to bypass the ignition switch if it fails on the road. I know I saw it here at one time but i'm having trouble finding it now.

 

I would like to get to know this process to be able to at leaset get the bike home if the igniton switch fails.

 

Thanks Everyone

[gibvel]

Here you go. It's in the 2nd Gen. Technical Library.

 

Emergency Ignition Switch bypass

[Monsta]

Oi. Someone should clean up all the HTML code in there...

[99silver]

Put the lighting circuit on a relay and you will never have the problem,

most of the problems arise due to adding passing lamps, creating to much draw through the ignition switch.

[gibvel]

Put the lighting circuit on a relay and you will never have the problem,

most of the problems arise due to adding passing lamps, creating to much draw through the ignition switch.

 

Got a how to, diagram etc. for some of us electrically illiterate types.

[Freebird]

Oi. Someone should clean up all the HTML code in there...

 

Done. I don't remember seeing it when I posted the article. Thanks for the heads up.

[frankc]

Yamaha says nothing about a relay in their instructions for passing light installation. It shows a tap to a hot wire then to a switch.

 

Is this how it would be done if the dealer installs the lights?

[CMIKE]

You are right, Yamaha does not say nothing about a relay. They say on the website "recommend dealer installation". I don't know any stealer I would let touch this job.

But the proper way to install them is use a relay to contol the load of the new lights

Let the switch turn the relay on/off and the contacts of the relay open/close to turn the lights on/off.

I tapped into the wires for the low beam or running lights under the fairing for power through the switch to control the relay. I mounted a BUSS AUX fuse box (6 circuits from Autozone $7.99) under the seat next to the battery. This fit great againist the right back plastic wall under the seat. I ran a #12 AWG wire from the new fuse box under the seat to the fairing where I supplied the relay, when the low beams come on, the relay is entergized and the passing lights come on. I installed a 3 way toggle switch instead of the supplied switch below my DC power outlet on the left inner fairing. This switch allows me to select AUTO, which allows the lights to come on/off with the low beams, or MANUAL so I can burn them with constantly if needed with HI beams or Low beams. Manual just turns the power on to the relay as long as the toggle switch is in MANUAl. I also installed an indicator light so I can tell when the passing lights are on/off. This light is on anytime the relay is on.

Word of Caution - if you do not run the power straight from the battery for the passing lights, the extra load of the new passing lights will run through the ignition key switch and this extra load is a possible cause of ignition switch failure. Nobody I can find has actually confirmed this yet but it is highly suspected. All power from the battery except a couple of circuits for the Radio, CB , Audio system goes through the ON section of the ignition key switch. I also installed another relay removed the main load from the ignition key switch. Now the key switch turns on the relay and all the power runs through the relay instead of the key switch. You must leave some power on the key switch to take care of the ACC section which is where the Radio. CB/Audio section recieves its power.

Nothing would mess up a 3000 mile trip more than bike not starting due to a failed ignition switch. So watch out.

 

I hope this helps...I know it may seem kinda confusing but take a look at the prints in back of the shop manual

[Rick Butler]

All power from the battery except a couple of circuits for the Radio, CB , Audio system goes through the ON section of the ignition key switch. I also installed another relay removed the main load from the ignition key switch. Now the key switch turns on the relay and all the power runs through the relay instead of the key switch. You must leave some power on the key switch to take care of the ACC section which is where the Radio. CB/Audio section recieves its power.

 

Mike,

 

So if you are saying what I think I'm understanding, did you wire in the "Emergency Ignition Switch bypass" that is in the 2nd Gen tech section with the use of a relay and not a 50amp switch?

 

If this is true, then did you trigger the relay connection with current from the ACC circuit? This is what I have been considering and putting a switch on the positive or negative trigger wires (which can be pretty small) to either turn the bypass on or off. But I think by doing this, you could probably start the bike with the key in the ACC position?

 

This would really be a nice safety feature to have installed in case you lost your ignition switch while out on a long trip. I had this happen to a friend's FJR this past year and he ended up renting a U-Haul truck and driving it home from the Smoky Mountains. We called several shops in the area, but this 06 FJR igition switch was on back order from Japan for the past 3 weeks. If I had known about this fix, we could have probably fixed it on the road?

 

Curious minds need to know,

 

Rick

[CMIKE]

Rick

I have read a lot of your post am very inpressed with what you have contributed to this forum as well as the stuff you do for the group. (Butler mods)

 

I am refering to a 2nd gen on this now...know nothing about a 1st gen.

 

After reading about folks loosing the key switch, I studied the prints really good and discoverd just about all the current for the whole bike comes through the ON contacts in the ignition key switch except what runs through the ACC side with is Radio, CB and Audio stuff. From indications the ACC part of the ignition key switch never failed. I thought as a preventive measure why not go ahead and remove the load from the ON contacts in the ignition switch by installing a relay to handle the load and run the current of the relay only through the ON contacts prevent the ignition swith from failing later on...down the road somewhere.

By the way...50 amp I think is an over kill on the bypass switch...the wire that supplies the DC power to the switch will not handle that much current and the MAIN fuse is only a 30 amp...so a 30 amp relay will do just fine.

 

I do not see why you could not use the ACC of the FJR to power the relay and get the bike up... But you need to also know that in the ON position...there is a contact that connects two wires L/Y and L/B together for the ignitor for the 2nd gen...

I think it will work...it is definitly worth a try.

See drawing of what I did.

Let me know how it goes.

[99silver]

Well here's the best I could come up with.

The wire diagram color codes should help, its been awhile since I did mine so

I can't tell you for sure but its not hard to figure out what the colors are.

Hope this helps.

Gary

[99silver]

Mike, I like yours better than running back to the battery but it can be done either way.

Gary

[CMIKE]

Looks like it basically is the same thing...just you are picking up the ground on the relay through the system.

Did you do this as a preventive measure or to get you out of a bind?

I have only owned my bike since Sept and had no problems with the key switch, just want to prevent problems in the future.

[99silver]

I had a problem with the switch, but I was able to take it apart and clean it up without having to replace it. You understand exactly what the problem is and made the right move you should never have a problem. There is just to much load going through the circuit and the switch is the weak point. This should be done on every bike if you want to avoid problems down ( or I should say "ON" ) the road.

Gary

[Rick Butler]

Ok Guys,

 

I'm just a shade tree DC electrician, so I'm not up on all of my color codes. If I'm reading your wiring diagram right, you are taping into the red wire for power in to the relay and then running the power out from the relay to the ignition side of the Br/L wire after you cut it. And it looks like you are triggering the positive side of the relay from the other side of the Br/L wire that you cut?

 

http://www.venturerider.org/switch/image009.jpg

 

Did you do this from the above ignition wiring, the Red and Brown/Blue wire and is this the Br/L wire you are refering to?

 

Oh and Mike even though I owned 5 1st gens, I was refering to my 2nd gen. I only made reference to my friend's FJR because it had the same problem that some of us have had.

 

Could you make it a little more simple and decribe which ignition wire color goes to which lug on the relay?

 

Thanks,

 

Rick

[CMIKE]

OK here we go. I wish I would have took photos of this when I had it down... Smoke is coming from the top of my head trying to remember all of it now...

 

As you know there are 2 red connectors on the key switch. One has 3 wires in it... and one has 2 bigger wires in it. The one with the bigger wires (RED and Brown/Blue) is the only wires were are gonna modify for this.

 

Red DC positive - T splice into this wire and connect to terminal labed "30" (this is the common) on the on the relay. This feeds the relay with DC power to the system.

 

Cut the brown/blue wire.

 

Connect the piece of Brown/Blue wire that goes back into the wiring harness to terminal labeled "87" Normally open contact on the relay. This will be the DC coming out of the relay to the wiring harness.

Connect the other cut end of the Brown/Blue wire that goes to the ignition key switch to "86" (one side of the relay coil) This will allow power from the DC positive RED going to the key switch to entergize the relay coil when the key switch is in the ON position.

 

Connect a wire to terminal "85" to Ground. There is a ground lug on the right side of the frame neck (it has a wide flat taped up wire under an unpainted bolt with a 10 mm (I think) head). This will complete the circuit for the relay coil.

 

Keep in mind Red DC positive stays connected to the key switch to give power to the ACC section of the key switch that powers Radio, CB and Audio system and to power only the new relay in the ON position. There is another set of contacts in the key switch that connects the small blue yellow and the blue black wires in the red connector that go to the ignitor. After you do this modifcation and the bike turns over but does not crank it may be related to this set of contacts.

 

There is a place under the tank of the 2nd Gen just above the Cruise Throttle Cable Joint where the relay can lay next to the frame and be out of the way for the tank to go back on. I tyraped it to the other wires to keep it from rattling.

 

I kinda messed up on mine, I made the splice and cuts in the switch side of the red plug, which I had not planned to do that... just got distracted and did not notice till I had already cut the Brown/Blue wire before I caught myself. It really does not matter, it will work either side of the red connectors. I was thinking it may cause some problems if the dealer had to change the key swith under warranty or something, then all the connections would be removed with the switch. If you want to make sure it says wth the bike make the connections on the wiring harness side, not the switch side of the key switch.

I purchased the relay from Autozone 40 amp 12 VDC for $7.99.

Here is 5 pack of them on Ebay. See Item number 350109093608

 

I soldered all the connections to the wiring harness and used heat shrink and tape to insulate them. I used nylon crimp-on spade connectors 1/4" with heat shrink to connect all wiring to the relay. Keep in mind the main fuse is 30 amps and fuses are to protect wiring...so make sure your wire is big enough for that main 30 amp fuse to protect it. #10 AWG is perfect for the terminals on 30 and 87. The wire used on 85 and 86 can be small 14 or 16 AWG. I also taped up the relay and the wires connected to it to make sure there is no way for nothing to get pulled off or short against the frame.

 

I think you can get that FJR up with this method. I wish I was close, I would come over and give you a hand if I could ride that FJR beast just once...but probably not a good idea.

LEt me know if anybody has any questions.

 

PM me and let me know what happens.

[Rick Butler]

Mike,

 

What you described is exactly how I thought you had wired your relay into this circuit. Once I finally understood how a relay really works, I have been using them for all of my extra accessories. It's Power In to 30 (the only lug on the relay that is perpendicular to the edge), Power Out (to the opposite lug) and a positive and negative trigger circuit that when energized, closes a heavy contact between the In and Out circuit.

 

But do you realize that if you installed a switch in either the positive or negative trigger wires, you could turn the relay completley off? This could be used as a security ignition cut-off switch to keep someone from stealing your bike, even with the key in the ignition.

 

Thanks for the insight for this idea,

 

Rick

[99silver]

If you make the splices on the side of the connector away from the switch you would then be able to remove the ignition by just unplugging it, and you would not have to remove the relay wiring. Does that make sense ?

Would make things less complicated down the road if you ever had the need to remove the ignition.

 

Gary

[slick97spirit]

I need to do this, but I'm afraid it's way over my head. I'm definitely not an electrician. Is this too much to do on a maintenance day? Does the fairing have to be opened? I'm afraid my switch is going bad because I do have the passing lamps & I hate to not run them for fear of some cager not seeing me.

[BJB]

I am not electrically gifted...so I would like a bit of clarification if possible.

 

As I understand this relay modification function; it is to protect the main ignition switch from future failure? Using a relay for passing lamgs, and this relay, will shunt most of power away from the switch and thereby saving the switch from failure? This is then NOT a by-pass that would allow one to start a RSV with a failed switch. The switch should not fail if most of the power is done through the relay. Right? Anybody had a switch fail after this mod? Thanks.

[BradT]

I am not electrically gifted...so I would like a bit of clarification if possible.

 

As I understand this relay modification function; it is to protect the main ignition switch from future failure? Using a relay for passing lamgs, and this relay, will shunt most of power away from the switch and thereby saving the switch from failure? Correct the relay should take a certain amount of current away from the switch This is then NOT a by-pass that would allow one to start a RSV with a failed switch. Correct again the by-pass just routes the current around the switch so the power gets to where it is suppose to go. The switch should not fail if most of the power is done through the relay. Right?

 

Anybody had a switch fail after this mod? Thanks.

Good question, I too would like to know this answer.

 

 

Comments in the quote Above

[DavidD]

Wouldn't it be easier to just turn the passing lights off untill the ignition switch is closed and the engine is stared rather then messing around with a relay?

[CMIKE]

Wouldn't it be easier to just turn the passing lights off untill the ignition switch is closed and the engine is stared rather then messing around with a relay?

Well that would help but what about when you turn them back on? The load runs through the key switch "ON" position all the time when the key is in the "ON" position, not just when you are starting the bike. Many of us believe the load of the passing lights accelerate the key switch failure if they are running through the "ON" position of the key switch. Mine comes straight from the battery and at first...the key switch only turned on a Relay to handle the load. LAter I went back and bypassed all the load from the bike thro another relay. The relay does the work instead of the ON contact of the key swith that has failed for many folks here.

[DavidD]

I guess I would have to ask, is the ignition switch failing simply because the light current is passing through it, or is the switch failing because its being used to make and break the current for the lights and the contacts in the switch cannot handle this. If the switch is failing because of the current for the lights running through it, then adding a relay isn't going to stop the current flow. If the switch is failing because of the making and breaking of the current, then by using the light switch for the lights to turn them off first and then back on after the ignition is closed transfes the making and breaking to the light switch and away from the ignition contacts thus eliminating the need for the relay.

[99silver]

David,

The switch fails due to load not from repeated contacts, it gets hot and the bakelite plate that holds the contacts becomes distorted and unable to hold the contacts. By installing the relay only the power to activate the relay goes thru the switch.

Gary