2nd gear question

[mikexup]

I bought a 83 Venture this fall with just a tick over 20,000 miles on it. The bike is super clean and a guy can tell it been well taken care of it's whole life. Before I bought the bike I made sure second gear was working ok, and so far it still is, but it was the time of year where I got it home and it turned cold so very few miles have been added. I said all that to ask this, has anyone found anything that prolongs what seems to be the inevitable, losing second gear? What kind of mileage can I plan on before a problem might arise? Before I take the bike out in the spring, I will change the oil to a sythetic brand, thinking that might help with the longevity, I will also take care not to ream the bike in the lower gears as I know this puts a strain on the transmission. I won't be pulling a trailer, not that it would hurt anything if loaded correctly and things done proper. Has anyone known of any 83's with high mileage that haven't had problems in this area? Just wondering about these things, any info will be appreciated.

[bongobobny]

Uhhh, try to avoid "Drag Racing" type of shifting with 2nd. The problem usually doesn't occur until 30 - 50K or more, but the sooner you replace the thrust washer with the better one, the less other work that has to be done. Put it on your list of things to do in the next year or so...

[Rocket]

Uhhh, try to avoid "Drag Racing" type of shifting with 2nd. The problem usually doesn't occur until 30 - 50K or more, but the sooner you replace the thrust washer with the better one, the less other work that has to be done. Put it on your list of things to do in the next year or so...

 

This will be a winter project type item. Unless someone discovers a way to do it, without pulling the motor & splitting the cases.

[ctraylor]

I owned an 83 for about 5 years and put 50,000 miles on it. It started skipping ar around 60,000 miles. I drove it quite hard at times, overall, was the best bike I ever owned. I have an 86 now with 55,000 on it and going strong.

[mikexup]

Is there some place on the forum I can go to that explains things in depth about what goes wrong that causes the transmission to slip? I've read that it's a big job, what would really be a bummer is to pull the engine, split the cases and find out that someone had already done it before you got the bike. Like I said, the way this bike has been taken care of, someone was meticulous about things, and it might have been taken care of before I bought the bike, but I bet there's no way of knowing unless I could find the previous owner. I bought the bike from a dealer 100 miles from here, but it might be worth the trouble to try and locate him. (previous owner) This must not have been a problem that they took care of under warranty at the time?

[Condor]

I picked up another '83 and it turned out to have a 'weak' second gear. Lug it down in second and the dogs would jump out. I put about 500 miles on it, and when I shift into second I don't mess around ,and bang it into gear with a clunk. Slowly second gear got better, and when I sold it... didn't need two... it shifted fine and didn't skip. Go figure. I think what happens is the dog edges get rounded off when the rider trys to baby it into second gear. When I slammed into second, the edges flatted out again. Maybe???

[5bikes]

All of my internals were in great shape at 19k miles on my 84. I did it as a preventative measure trying to avoid ruining other parts/costs. You can see the thrust washers under the middle gear cover but can't get them out without removing the engine and splitting the cases. 50 hours work, 2 weeks ordering parts, much reading of manuals/posts/articles, asking questions, emails, phone calls. Not for the faint of heart. Need lots time, tools, space, $ and experience.

[Oldgold]

I've got 85,000 on my 83, never had it pop out of 2cd gear, 2cd owner , don't hit 2cd hard often, but don't really baby it either, hopefully I haven't jinxed myself.

[SilvrT]

I bought a 83 Venture this fall with just a tick over 20,000 miles on it. The bike is super clean and a guy can tell it been well taken care of it's whole life. Before I bought the bike I made sure second gear was working ok, and so far it still is, but it was the time of year where I got it home and it turned cold so very few miles have been added. I said all that to ask this, has anyone found anything that prolongs what seems to be the inevitable, losing second gear? What kind of mileage can I plan on before a problem might arise? Before I take the bike out in the spring, I will change the oil to a sythetic brand, thinking that might help with the longevity, I will also take care not to ream the bike in the lower gears as I know this puts a strain on the transmission. I won't be pulling a trailer, not that it would hurt anything if loaded correctly and things done proper. Has anyone known of any 83's with high mileage that haven't had problems in this area? Just wondering about these things, any info will be appreciated.

 

FYI... I changed to synthetic on my '87 (which has a Barnett clutch) and it immediately started slipping. I changed back to regular oil but that didn't cure the slipping. I think there's stuff in the synthertic that messes up the friction plates on older bikes that have been using regular oil for so many years. (seems I read elsewhere here something about that). So, maybe not a good idea to change to syn oil??? ... In any event, I doubt it will increase the longevity of that thrust washer...at least not to any reasonable extent.

[99silver]

Theres a post on here somewhere that said if the repair had been made the dealer would mark the bike by the serial number with a center punch.

We Karl just bought one last month and it was marked !!!

Squid said also may be marked near the shift shaft.

Gary

[Condor]

Theres a post on here somewhere that said if the repair had been made the dealer would mark the bike by the serial number with a center punch.

We Karl just bought one last month and it was marked !!!

Squid said also may be marked near the shift shaft.

Gary

 

 

OK Dang it!!!!!!! I wanna see a pic..... I've never seen one before.

[Marcarl]

What causes the second gear woes is the wearing of the washer, if it didn't wear second could not pop out, but by wearing it gives some space to the gears and second being the power gear, naturally will take the brunt of the the problem. Fifth gear is on the same shaft but has no problem because it not used in heavy torque situations. In answer to your question, second will go at around 60,000 whether you like it or not, unless you don't use it or use it very lightly.

[timgray]

Theres a post on here somewhere that said if the repair had been made the dealer would mark the bike by the serial number with a center punch.

We Karl just bought one last month and it was marked !!!

Squid said also may be marked near the shift shaft.

Gary

 

Mine has that punch and it "skips" in second gear. so it's not a real indicator.

[Captain Murph]

There simply is no way to avoid the problem, but there are things you can do to prevent it from occurring earlier rather than later.

 

The thrust washer which is the main (but not only) culprit was simply a bit too thin and a bit too soft to stand up to pulling lots of torque in second gear. When you are, the gear wants to walk in the direction that will allow it to pop out of the dogs which are engaged in the side of the gear. If you look at a picture, you'll see what this means.

 

At any rate, you can possibly postpone the inevitable by not pulling more than half throttle or so in second gear. I have one an '84 now with only 37K with no evidence of problems. If I were to keep it and ride it as I have in the past year, I would expect this to happen at about 50K. I had another '84 with 55K and no problems that developed the problem completely in 5,000 more miles. 55K with no jump out, 60K wouldn't stay in second even under moderate torque.

 

I did the repair, but it is way too intimidating for most to attempt. Don't get me wrong, it does not require more than lots of time, proper tools, patience, attention to detail and careful following of the excellent step-by-step procedures done by other riders here and at Venturers.org.

 

I would not change to synthetic oil. I personally doubt that this would have any real positive effect on this problem and might cause or aggravate others.

 

A lot depends on how you ride the bike. If you spent most of your time on the open road at 55+, you'll go many more miles than if you are in town going through the gears constantly. In case you are wondering, winding up a bit in first and going directly to third will work F O R E V E R with no ill effects. Even when the dogs are worn to the point where it will jump out with only a bit of torque, there is nothing inside that will cause other transmission problems.

 

And, of course, if you eventually have it and you fix it, it will be good forever as well.

 

Good luck.

[Venturous Randy]

Very well stated Murph.

RandyA

[mikexup]

Thanks to everyone for their input, it has helped me understand things a lot more. I got a hold of the previous owner and even though no work had ever been done to the transmission, he did give me a lot of helpful information about things that have been done to the bike. I plan on getting the bikes transmission done before I have problems, but it's nice to know that it's not something that has to be done tomorrow.