New Idea for Air Filters

[dlhoulton]

Just wanted to post this for feed back. I have been trying to think of ways to dress up the air intake/filter box area. Not looking for high performance just visiual appeal. My bike is an 08 RSV and I have added some RK mufflers. This is the only mechanical modification that has been done. I first started off by trying to find out how much CFM the stock filters drew so I would not be messing with fuel/air mixtures. Let me state I have no technical skills at all. Just about everyone that I've seen that has altered the air intake has had to adjust or re-jet and shim needle valves!?!? Seems the filters they used drew way to much air and exceeded the cfm required by the RSV. The only way I could come close was to call K & N and they gave me the info on CFM of the replacement filter for the RSV. Part #YA-1399 has 338 cfm. Then I looked at different types of "Pod, Pancake" type filters. Nobody making filter is willing or knows how much CFM there filters draw (except K&N). I wanted to keep the filter size small so that I would not exceed the 338. Thinking that K&N was a high flow filter, the stock must draw less. Also the stock air box has only a 1.5 inch hole drawing that air through. I was able to get info on several filter that looked good and had the low cfm draw. I decided on a small 4.5" round chrome pancake filter that is 1" thick. The filter is reusable/washable and oil charged. I fabricated small brackets to secure it solidly and also got some muffler pipe to form a connection between filter and intake hose. The filters draw 127 cfm each. I've had them on for a couple days now and have ran the bike on the highway and in town. Running through the rev limits and down shifting. There has been no hesitation of sputtering at all. Lots of get-up and go. Have only put about 20 miles on her so far. As for the filter being small my thinking was the stock flliter box is roughly 9.5L x 5W x 4.5D with a small 1.5 inch hole drawing air into a filter that is roughly 5.25L x 3.5X x 3.5D. The outside box makes the filter look bigger than it really is. If I need to go up in filter size or cfm K&N also has several round and oval styles with cfm draw of 172 to 269.

Have included some pictures to show how it looks. Sure would like to here some of your thoughts (good/bad, postive/negative). Or if anyone would like more information just let me know.

Thanks for reading,

Dennis

[RoadKill]

Looks good. What did you cost you to make the switch?

[BoomerCPO]

I was able to get info on several filter that looked good and had the low cfm draw. I decided on a small 4.5" round chrome pancake filter that is 1" thick. The filter is reusable/washable and oil charged.

 

Those filters really look nice! Could you provide info on them and cost?

[Kregerdoodle]

Looks good, wonder if they will suck in water if and when caught in the rain??

[Freebird]

Looks very nice to me. I have the chrome covers from Yamaha and I like them but they are way overpriced and the chrome is starting to peel on mine. I will need to have them re-chromed or replace them with something else. You did a great job.

[dlhoulton]

You will not beleave me when I tall you that they are made for "Pocket Racer" type motorcycles. Or even go carts!!! I found them ranging in price from $12.95 to $20.95 each. K&N has them for $35.24. I went to my local muffler shop and had them make a connecting tube that went from 2.25 to 1.75 and abought 3" long. The local shopes here charge everything they can to get your money ($25 for two). Most of these filters have a 1.75 or 45mm I.D. opening in a rubber mounting flange. The 2.25" is what was needed to connect to the stock intake tube of the RSV. Here are some sources for the filters. You may have to scroll down the page to locate the "Pancake" type filter.

http://www.neoscooters.com/high_performance_parts.asp?id=17&pg=2

http://www.davesmotors.com/s.nl/c.885035/sc.12/category.27871/.f

http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/intake/buggyintake1.htm

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RC-0340

K&N have other filter I might try. Some are round and some are oval. There part numbers are: RA-062V (5.5" round, 2" thick), RC-1980 (4.5" x 7" x 2" oval). This has a 203cfm draw. These have a centered flang for mounting and have chromed top cover plate only. They also have K&N stamped into the the top cover plate!! If I go up to these filters they have a larger flang mounting opening (2" to 2.5") so I can go to the local auto parts store and get ready made muffler connectors in the sizes I need for just a few dollars!!!! I also got some scrap aluminum sheeting from a local sheet metal shop to fab up some brackets to make the filter mount more securely. Just took off the stock filter housings and traced a few ideas and matched the mounting holes. Being these filters do not come apart I just rivited the fabed up brackets to the back. So when I need to take them off I just unbolt two bolts holding the bracket and filter and one screw holding the connecting tube to the stock intake tube.

Dennis

[dlhoulton]

Kbay,

I read somewhere where someone had a kit on there bike with larger filters (Big Air Kit) on bikes like Harleys, Yamaha and Honda and They did not have any trouble. When they parked there bikes outside for any length of time they would use "Shower caps" to cover the filters. Most oil charged filters repell water anyway. I found out when I was oiling these I put to much oil on them and when I went to start over and wash them out that the water did not get inside the filter and when I put water inside the filter they held water like a bowl. So that made them somewhat water repelent. Plus being behind the lower faring is an added bonus and safety factor. If you go with some of the oval type filters, K&N makes PreChargers for dusty contitions and DryChargers for wet conditions. Here is some info on them:

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=22-2000PL

Dennis

Edited January 11, 2009 by dlhoulton

[M61A1MECH]

Dennis

Nice job.

 

Freebird

Can we get this added to the tech section so we can find it easy next we need it?

[Kregerdoodle]

Kbay,

I read somewhere where someone had a kit on there bike with larger filters (Big Air Kit) on bikes like Harleys, Yamaha and Honda and They did not have any trouble. When they parked there bikes outside for any length of time they would use "Shower caps" to cover the filters. Most oil charged filters repell water anyway. I found out when I was oiling these I put to much oil on them and when I went to start over and wash them out that the water did not get inside the filter and when I put water inside the filter they held water like a bowl. So that made them somewhat water repelent. Plus being behind the lower faring is an added bonus and safety factor.

Dennis

 

 

OK, great news, I really like that, you did a Great job, I was just wondering about any water problem..

[Redneck]

They look good! I looked at filters similar to those and was going to do the same thing you did. I decided not to do it because of the possible water in the intake issue. I don't think it will be a problem running down the road in the rain but stuck in traffic in heavy rain they will pull water in. I have a dune buggy with a similar set up and I have had it pull water in ,when they get wet the restriction will cause the engine to run very rich and flood. I thought about building shrouds to shield the top of the filters but decided not to do it on the bike. If your local dealer is a jerk they could also void your warranty you could change back to stock filters before taking it in for warranty work.

[dlhoulton]

I did worry about warrenty work, thats why I did not modify any thing. I can quickly put the stock air boxes/filter back on.

I also thought about putting shields on top portion of filter if I could find some chrome strips of metal that would do the job.

Does anyone think that the size of filter that were used could creat a problem of having the bike run lean or rich. I'm not a mechanic or anything like that so I have no way of testing or knowing. I have read that a bike that runs lean (to little fuel and to much air) would cause loss in performance (studdering, hesitation, loss of throttel response). I don't have any of these signs but what I worry is with the size of the filter and filter area/cfm (127) what would I look for in a rich running condition (to much fuel and not enough air intake)? Hope I got those right!!! With my simple mind I just can't seem to think that with the stock filter size and box with the 1.5" hole drawing in air I shouldn't have any problems. My yamaha mech. looked at it (seems to be supportive) and said it sounded good but without paying him thats all he would do. Said he could put it on a "EGA" or something but would be some work and would cost$$$ (per hour labor).

 

Dennis

[Freebird]

To be honest, that does concern me a bit. Changing the air going in could certainly mess up your mixture. That is also why I'm reluctant at this time to add it to the tech library, I would hate to put it there with no good readings on what it does to the air/fuel mixture. I don't THINK you are hurting anything but I'm just not 100% sure.

[Redneck]

I don't think you will have any mixture problems with you set up. To much flow can cause low rpm throttle response problems on carburated engines but the carbs on your scoot are variable venturie so they keep the air velocity at a fairly constant rate so fuel air mixing is fairly consistent. If you have to much restriction you will notice a decrease in fuel mileage. run it a while and look at the spark plugs if they are black you are running rich if they are white you are running lean they should be a medium brown with good mixture rates.

[Monsta]

338cfm!?!

 

If I figure it correctly, the RSV draws around 69.7cfm at 6000rpm. Could be wrong though...

[eazyduzzit]

Good article Dennis. I think the stock air cleaners on these bikes are so ugly. I don't know why Yamaha hasn't done something to make them look nicer. I think yours look really nice in comparison.

 

I ordered the Yamaha chrome covers, but haven't put them on yet. I started a kitchen remodel on New years day, and it's taking up all of my time.

[Squidley]

I have been thinking of doing the same thing, with a little different air cleaner. I think it looks great and my only concern would be that it would run lean as you really dont have any restriction. My plans were to install ajet kit when I switched over and color tune it accordingly. I would imagine that the throttle responce would be great seeing you would be able to get more air in and out (if you had free flowing mufflers)...looks good to me

[davecb]

Have you thought about making up a kit and selling it as a complete set_up???

[Nyman]

Me Likey!

K&N's website claims the engine will not run lean with a high flow filter.

The engine will be able to suck the air required more easily. Increasing mileage.

I put a K&N filter on my truck and it really roars when I get on it. And mileage did go up 1 mpg.

Have you noticed any sound difference?

[Reaney in NH]

Hmmm... I think this is my first post. LOL

 

I am new to the Venture... But Have ridden a Kawasaki 1500 Vulcun Classic for years. I installed a home built external high flow filter... its exposed to the elements... mounted on the side like they do on Harleys... And I have ridden in pouring rain and never had an issue at all.

You will find the same thing with this mod... it will work great. I would however check your plugs. Best to check them right away after an extended high speed run.

I had to Rejet my carb on my Vulcan after adding pipes and doing the intake mod. Not sure how tolerant the Venture is in comparison.

[dlhoulton]

I would like to give everyone an update on how the air filters are holding up. A good friend suggested that I should take the bike in and have my system checked out. He has a RSTD and like most have posted these bikes have come from the factory running a little lean. His has no modification and was in fact running lean. My local dealer wanted to charge me $80+ to have the mixture checked. So my friend new of a Yamaha dealership that is the oldest Yamaha shop in Oklahoma and did his Sync and EGA checked for $45. That was a special deal for him but they only charged me $55 for the same service. For that price compaired to what my local wanted I thought that was a bargan!! The bike has been running well and I have not had any problems. After they did my work (Sync/EGA) the bike ran so much better. Very responsive and crisp throttel. My idel was also a little high (from factory, and not corrected at 600mi service). My inital readings were as follow: #1 Cyl was 4.0%Co, #2 Cyl was .20%Co, #3 Cyl was 1.14%Co and #4 Cyl was .20%Co. They adjusted all to be 3.0% and Synced the Carbs and adjusted the idel. The mechanic said the bike is running fine and he seen no problems running this set up.

As for the concern with H2O intering the filters, he also confermed what my thoughts were. With these small filters behind the lower faring along with being oil charged there would be very little if any H2O entering the system. But just to add another level of percaution I have ordered K&N drycharger covers. If there is any signe of rain while riding, just stop as I would to put on rain suit and the drycharger covers. Or they could be left on with no adverse effect on performance. Note: they do not make drycharger covers for the size filters I got (4.5" dia x 1.5" thick)but what I did (or will do when they come in) is to take the covers (for 5" dia x 7" thick) and cut them in half and have wife resew some eleastic or draw string into the cut end. If anyone would like pictures, when I finish I can provide them along with the part number. Sure hope this helps and sparks intrest for others to try this out.

Dennis

[ransom]

WANTED TO CHIME IN AND SAY THAT IT LOOKS GREAT THE STOCK SET UP LOOKS BAD AND THIS IS A REAL EYE CATCHER THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO,I PLAN ON DOING THIS NEXT WEEK AGAIN THANKS FOR ALL THE LEG WORK:bowdown: RANSOM

[hkd51]

My bike is in storage right now ... not easy to get to so don't know the size of the flange on the bike ... looks like K&N has an number of flange sizes with rubber flanges that can expand to fit slightly larger sizes. So I was wondering why you needed to have an adapter piece made to span between filter and bike?

These look way better than stock!!! Great idea!!!

Harry

[dlhoulton]

hkd51,

I gave K&N as one source for filters as well as a few others. I noted that I did not go with K&N due to the fact that they had only rubber bases and chrome topes. I went with one of the other sourse (they all had chrome base and tops and rubber flanges). With K&N as well as with all other sources (of the 4.5" dia x 1.5" thick filters) the flang only comes in 1.75" (44mm) I.D. opening. When you look at K&N filters (round stright) there list showes all deminsion as well as flang off set (one problem) and flang angle (another problem). I wanted to go with one of the 4.5" x 7" x 1.5" (oval) but the flang off set is 0.5" and that would make them set funny (one would set forward the other would set back) You could correct this by flipping the filters but they have the "K&N" logo deeply embosed into there chrome tops!!!! I am still considering going with the 4.5" x 7" x 2" (oval). They are have center flanges and no angle. Just don't know if that might be to much filter and then will have a "too lean" problem. They are $44 each. Kind of costly to make a mistake with.

Forgot to add the flange on the bike is approx 2.25" (57mm) that is why the adapter is needed. Here are a few pictures of the adapter and the bracket I made. The bracket was just riveted to the filter to make one unit.

Dennis

Edited January 24, 2009 by dlhoulton

[Guest msegelle]

Please let us all know if your plugs turn out alright after running this set up for a while.

I for one like what I see in your pictures.

I put a K&N flilter on my Yamaha 650 Sliverado and man it improved the throttle response.

 

 

Mark:bluesbrother:

[geep]

Any experience with these?

http://www.vesquared.com/ramflo/index.htm

Same principle of replacing the OEM boxes but with washable foam elements. I like the "retro" look of these filters, IMO it goes well with our bikes, I am guessing the 300 series is more than enough, lots of Sportster guys run these:lightbulb: