Diagnostics.

[Ivan]

Well, now that the carbs are together, I tried in vain to start the thing today.

 

It backfires out the carbs and exhaust, which is funny since it actually ran, albeit not well before the rebuild. It will fire and almost take off at times, but won't start.

 

I am thinking that somehow the ignition timing has gotten out of adjustment. I have the instrument cluster off the bike, does that have anything to do with the ignition? Also, where is the ignition timing adjusted, if it can be?

 

I also noticed the oil is like chocolate mousse. I filled the cooling system partially, but neglected to check the oil condition before i started messing with it, so the water may be from a previous encounter, and I am hoping there are no leaks into the case. Time will tell.

 

Good news is that I have until January 5th to tinker with it.

[Dragonslayer]

By all means change the oil and put fresh oil filter on if its old and been sitting. I would even add a little seafoam in oil and gas.

 

There is an inspection plug on the stator cover for timing light inspection, but I'm not sure of any adjustment since timing is function of pick up coil firing . You might want to see manual or ask better informed members.

 

I'm wondering since you said oil like molasses if top of engine not lubricated and valves sticking or not opening and closing properly, On the occasions when I started very cold engines that had been sitting for months or years I made sure I had fresh oil, gas and plugs, turned engine over with hot battery for as long as it took to get all fluids circlating through engine and used starting fluid untill engine fired up. Once engine fired up and ran then you can adjust carbs.

 

These bikes are very electrically operated and the ignitor box controls most evey thing. I would not be surprised, though I don't exactly know how having the gauge cluster not installed might effect something that would not let the engine to crank.

 

Also on carb rebuild how sure are you of carb adjustments, Main idle jets should be 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 turns out sync screws can be close but not exact for engine to crank and idle can be adjusted after engine crank shooting for 950 to 1000 rpm idle. Even if engine cranks it will run like crap until air box remounted with filter. Air flow through carbs are critical. Also air tight connection between air box, carbs, intake boots and heads is critical. Are you getting any action on the diaphram plungers?

[Ivan]

The oil looking like chocolate mousse was in reference to water in the oil. I am not very clear some times. Its a good thing my wife is a tad hard of hearing, because she wouldn't understand me if she could hear me.

 

Anyway, I was thinking along the same lines as you about the sticky oil. I just put coolant in it last week, so I don't know if the water was there from before or if I have an internal leak. I drained the oil and I will completely fill the coolant, with the plug out and see if there is any that hits the catch pan. I hope not. If it is just valves sticking, that will be easy enough to cure when it gets a tad warmer.

 

Carb adjustments should be good enough to get it running. I have the idle screws as described, and the synch was done with a "bread tie feeler gauge" in the carb throat.

 

I'll have it running soon enough, I have never had one beat me, sometimes they fight a while, but they never beat me.

[Cutty]

Pull the choke on and DO NOT twist throttle when starting cold. Check plugs, make sure they clean, dry and gapped. Using REG gas in the winter also helps, as it will fire easier than HI-TEST.

[GeorgeS]

Anti freez-- just drain at the bottom plug on the water pump, and put in 1 1/2 qt. anti freez and 1 1/2 qt of Distilled water. Good enough for the time being.

 

For Oil, until you get it going, Drain, then just use a light wgt 5W- 20W cheap oil for the time being, and consider that a flush out, Use couple OZ. of Sea Foam in the Oil. Also, a dose of SEA-FOAM in the gas. After couple hours of running, replace the flush oil with good stuff.

 

Did you get all the Vaccume Lines hooked back up ?? check the vac line from the left FWD Carb. up to the Barro Sensor, Is it Installed ???

 

Also, the Vaccume line that run to the bottom of the Air cleaner box.

 

Have you Completly, Drained the Fuel tank, ??? Drain it at the petcock, there might be some water, and crude in the tank.

 

This engine will not run, with the Air cleaner cover OFF. Even if everything is in perfect conditon, they run like crap with the air cleaner cover removed.

 

 

As far as the Instrument Cluster being removed, thats a good question !!

 

Looking at block diagram, I don't see anything that should effect the Ignition System. Check all other electrical plugs in the area behind the headlight, did you remove any other lugs ?? Double check there.

 

Check the Electrical Resistance, THRU the RUN-STOP Switch, make sure that switch has ZERO ohm thu it when in the " run " position. they are know to go high resistance.

 

Double check your 15 AMP, Ing Fuse holder, for makeing good contact with the Fuse.

 

there is a 5 wire Plug, 1/2 way between the Pick-UP coils going to the TCI. Its located, just under your left Knee as you sit on the bike. They have been know to develop bad connections. Clean all the pins in that plug.

[Ivan]

What is the vacuum line that runs to the bottom of the box? I know where it is, but what does it go to? I didn't undo any other lines other than the vent lines and the crankcase breather tube. I still have the aircleaner box off. I will put it back on and try.

 

I just bought some premix anti freeze for the cooling system. I have let the oil drain out, and tomorrow I am going to refill the cooling system with the oil drain left out to make sure there is no internal coolant leak. If that hold up ok, I will put some cheap oil int it. I bought some tractor oil which was cheap for 20-50, but it may be better in this freezing climate to run something thinner for the time being.

 

Its definitely going to be a process of continual improvement.

[GeorgeS]

From-- the Forward, left side Carb Intake manifold, vaccume port:

 

Follow the Small diameter rubber hose, it runs UP and Forward to the BARROMETRIC PRESSURE SENSOR. Its located forward of the Carb.

((( See: Page 7-31 Service Manual for the Barro Sensor )))

 

About half way, there should be a " T " connector and another small hose that runs up to the bottom of the Air Cleaner Box. Its hard to see, and harder to replace.

 

Any Vaccume Leaks on this hose will cause running problems. ( might be part of the problem )

 

Also, check the Rubber Caps on the Other 3 Intake Manifolds, make sure they have the Rubber Caps in place. Again, vaccume leaks are bad.

 

Might, be part of your problem --- ??

 

Be sure to Drain the Fuel Tank, just pull the hose Off at the Petcock, and install a piece of 1/4 I.D. rubber hose and drain into a container. When you get down to the

" Reserve " level, Switch to a Glass Container, so you can see what comes out of the tank, for that last gallon.

 

There is also, Screens, mounted Inside the Tank at the PetCock. These Screens might be plugged. You can drop out the Petcock assembly to clean them. If Real Dirty, it might be advisable to Remove the Fuel Quantiy Sender Unit.

( At top of Tank ) Now you have a 6 inch Diameter Hole to Inspect the Inside of the Tank.

 

15 AMP, Ignition Fuse, again, be sure to check the fuse holder, Give the Main Ignition Swith a bath with " Electrical Contact Cleaner ", and be sure to Clean the RUN-STOP Switch.

 

One more item, that might help. disconnect Each Plug wire AT the Ignition Coils, and the Plug Caps. Nip Off, 1/4 inch of wire, and ReInstall the wires, ( they are solid core copper plug wires ) Might be some bad connections here. The wire SCREWS Into the Coils, and the Caps. Easy to do.

[Venturous Randy]

As far as the oil Ivan, I run 10-40 year round. I might put 20-50 in if I am going to be pulling the camper and it is going to be real hot, but to me 20-50 is a little on the thick side in cold weather.

When draining the coolant out, make sure you turn the bypass valve that is down in front of the starter.

RandyA

[Ivan]

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq60/ivanstein/img1230072510248.jpg

 

Well maybe not. Replaced them and she runs, starts easy. It had 2 champions (which will make anything not run) an NGK and a Nippon Denso. Gotta love the PO!

 

I left the coolant in the machine for the overnight, and nothing dripped from the pan, so I am fairly sure the engine is sound.

 

Put some oreilley's brand 5-30 in it, and a good dose of marvel mystery oil, for the lack of seafoam, in it. I'll let it run with that and let it clean its self out, then put the diesel 15-40 in it. As I understand it diesel type oil is supposed to suspend more crap than other oils, because diesels make a lot of soot. I figure this will be good for a bike that has sat since the carter presidency.

 

Now comes the process of putting it all back together, and getting some good weather for a test drive.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Ivan

[GeorgeS]

Nothing like Success !!! ( did you use Never Sieze on the new plug threads ?? )

 

Now get some SEA-FOAM, in the Gas, run it two or three times a day for several days.

 

I still reccomend Draining the Tank, if you have not done so as yet.

 

After you are sure the fuel system is cleaned out, read up on the Carb Sync proceedure in Service Manual, Thats the next step in the process.

[Ivan]

I always use antisieze on my plugs. I have had a few times on vehicles that had a miss caused by someone not using it. Plus my teenage daughter can use it for eye shadow and look like that Beyondsay gal.

 

I bought some Techron, which is a decent fuel system cleaner. The parts house was out of Seafoam, so I got the next best.

 

The tank emptied its self, since I had a float stick, and was too busy trying to get the starter button to work and not paying attention. The garage still smells "manly". I think I will make a designer cologne and call it "old gas".

 

I also put an extra fuel filter in the line, mostly because I didn't know it had one down by the fuel pump. Now my fuel is double filtered, like a cheap beer.

 

Carb synch will happen soon enough, I use my home made synch tool, and it is sensitive enough to show just the pressure of the screwdriver on the screw, but it takes a long time to get it synched, since I can only do two cylinders at a time.

 

Anyhoot, I have plenty to do until I go back to work after the holidays.

[MikeM8560]

 

 

Now comes the process of putting it all back together, and getting some good weather for a test drive.

 

We got the weather your you down here, post some pics when you get her all back together:thumbsup2:

[GeorgeS]

Get a spray can of Electrical contact Cleaner, and open and clean EVERY, Electrical plug on the entire bike . And all the switches. Also apply dialectric Greese to al the male female pins in the plugs. The Yamaha Plug Pins Corrode.

 

Pay special attention to the Plug From the Stator, going To the Rectifyer/Regulator unit. Its, a Famous Trouble Spot of the Electrical System.

Check it for Burnt, Fryed Connectors. !!! Don't skip this one.

 

Be sure to Re-Solder, both ends of both battery cables.

 

Also, on the Clutch Actuation sytem, plan on Replaceing the Clutch Slave Cylinder. Most likly it full of CRUD. Rebuild kit about $15, and new one about $30. Eaiser to just get a new one.

 

Also, you have the Inst panel out. be sure to lubricate the Speedometer Unit, This is another famous trouble point.

 

Also, the Circuit board that has about 10 large diodes on it. ( not the LCD Board) as long as you have it out. Resolder all connections on that circuit board. )

Cold solder joints on this board, are known to cause " False " failure warnings, and blinking red warning light.

 

As long as your Solinoid is toast, consider replaceing it with one from a CAR. Small forign car. Yamaha wants about $70 for them, and the Car ones only about $25, and they are much better quality. And carry more current. Sombody knows the details on this item. I am running Two Stock solinoids in parrallel. But plan to change to the Automotive unit soon.

 

Its highly advisable to replace that JUNK Fuse holder with an ATM type fuse block. ( not a big deal, but lots of us have done that )

 

[Ivan]

the main reason I have the bike all torn apart is for checking and greasing all the electrical connections. I use more dielectric grease than most people use tooth paste. Plus it leaves your teeth feeling "charged":hihi:

 

The clutch seems to be working, but I agree is probably worth taking apart and checking on. I got another master cylinder from another very gracious member and flushed the system until I got clean brake fluid through, which took almost two pints! i will pull the slave and check it when I get to that point.

 

I already spent $20 and got a replacement solenoid. It was from a modern yamaha four wheeler, the badger/breeze. Anyway, it was a direct replacement and even had the same plug.

 

Been looking for a good ATC or even an ATM fuse block, but they are being rather elusive at the moment. I will probably replace the large main fuse with an ATX as well.

 

One question on the fuse block: The two screws on the forward end of the block, are they just screwed into a shunt or is it a buss bar? I am guessing that it is just a shunt and merely connects the two wires, but I would like to be sure.

 

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys!

[MiCarl]

One question on the fuse block: The two screws on the forward end of the block, are they just screwed into a shunt or is it a buss bar? I am guessing that it is just a shunt and merely connects the two wires, but I would like to be sure.

 

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys!

 

There isn't even a shunt. It's just two screws. The left one should have a ground lead on it and the right should have a fused hot lead on it. They are just a connection point for a low current accessory.