Clutch Plates Blue

[RedRider]

During my recent treck to the Southeast, I was noticing my clutch slipping is high gears. I was pulling a trailer and riding some good twisties, so the clutch was getting a work out. Decided to change out the clutch friction plates and spring.

 

Just tore it apart and inspected everything. The friction plates are all in spec (0.114 to 0.118 inch), but several of the middle steels were blued (apparently by heat). The steels are all still flat and appear to be in good shape, although mis-colored.

 

Couple of questions:

 

1) Any difficulty in reusing the blued steels?

2) Will the selection of oil used cause/contribute to this difficulty?

 

I have been running Mobil 1 high mileage full synthetic (it does not have the 'Energy Conserving' label).

 

Thanks for your help.

 

RR

[Guest Highway]

Yes, the plates need replaced. The heat distorts them. Not cheap to do:mugshot:

[Squeeze]

Throw the Steel Plates in the Trash. They are Junk.

 

Everybody i know who tried use a MC-specific synthetic Oil in his Max(which are the same Parts) payed dearly for this.

 

I don't want to bash any synthic Oil, just stating the Facts i know.

[Snarley Bill]

Throw the Steel Plates in the Trash. They are Junk.

 

Everybody i know who tried use a MC-specific synthetic Oil in his Max(which are the same Parts) payed dearly for this.

 

I don't want to bash any synthic Oil, just stating the Facts i know.

hey lutz, are you saying the motorcycle specific oil did'nt work in there max? bill

[Squeeze]

hey lutz, are you saying the motorcycle specific oil did'nt work in there max? bill

Yes, MC-specific Synthetic Oil doesn't work here among us Vmax Crazy Creatures.

 

Here's my Take on this. These Oils are borderline on a Max. They will work and not make the Clutch slip under normal use even on a Vmax. But load up a Passenger or ride the Crap out of the Bike and the Clutch will start to slip. If you constantly ride aggressive, you even don't need a Passenger for making the Clutch slip.

 

Now the 2Gen has less Power, but when fully loaded and/or a Trailer hooked up and going through Twisties in ambitious Manner, the Clutch will give up very early.

 

Of Course, there will be some Members coming up and report "no Issues with synthetic whatsoever", and i don't deny their Story by any Meanings.

 

But they are probably those who need to replace the 'weak' stock Clutch Spring very early in the Bikes Life.

 

That's my Story and i'm sticking to it. No need to flame me on that Issue. I will stay away from synthetic Oil as long as i can buy standard Oil. These Engines are designed for standard Oil and i can't find any Reason to fill it up with expensive Stuff which might ruin my Clutch early. I even mounted a Drag-Style Lock-up Clutch on my Max and intend to do so on my 12Gen when the Time comes to open the Clutch Cover.

[V7Goose]

If I were you, I'd try just putting in a new stronger spring from PCW Racing without changing anything (except that stupid half disc on the bottom of the stack). I'm not saying those plates don't need to be replaced, but you can't hurt anything or loose any money by trying the new spring first. If it doesn't solve all your problems, all you have to do is pull the cover back off and replace whatever else you need also.

 

When my 05 started slipping at 40,000 miles, the PCW spring kit was a perfect fix without replacing anything else.

 

Oh, just for grins I thought I'd mention that I love synthetic oil and have used a lot of it in my bikes and "no Issues with synthetic whatsoever". But most of it was the old red-top Mobil 1 - never wasted a cent on the overpriced motorcycle specific oils, synthetic or not. Does it bother me that other people disagree with me on oils? Not in the slightest! That's why they sell so many different types of oil - so everyone can buy whatever they like. My personal favorite at this time is Shell Rotella, in both regular or synthetic. But of course, I don't ride a vmax either - they are just too ugly for me to get around!

Goose

[Squeeze]

If I were you, I'd try just putting in a new stronger spring from PCW Racing without changing anything (except that stupid half disc on the bottom of the stack). I'm not saying those plates don't need to be replaced, but you can't hurt anything or loose any money by trying the new spring first. If it doesn't solve all your problems, all you have to do is pull the cover back off and replace whatever else you need also.

 

When my 05 started slipping at 40,000 miles, the PCW spring kit was a perfect fix without replacing anything else.

 

Oh, just for grins I thought I'd mention that I love synthetic oil and have used a lot of it in my bikes and "no Issues with synthetic whatsoever". But most of it was the old red-top Mobil 1 - never wasted a cent on the overpriced motorcycle specific oils, synthetic or not. Does it bother me that other people disagree with me on oils? Not in the slightest! That's why they sell so many different types of oil - so everyone can buy whatever they like. My personal favorite at this time is Shell Rotella, in both regular or synthetic. But of course, I don't ride a vmax either - they are just too ugly for me to get around!

Goose

 

 

:rotf::happy34::happy-emoticon:

[Snarley Bill]

Yes, MC-specific Synthetic Oil doesn't work here among us Vmax Crazy Creatures.

 

Here's my Take on this. These Oils are borderline on a Max. They will work and not make the Clutch slip under normal use even on a Vmax. But load up a Passenger or ride the Crap out of the Bike and the Clutch will start to slip. If you constantly ride aggressive, you even don't need a Passenger for making the Clutch slip.

 

Now the 2Gen has less Power, but when fully loaded and/or a Trailer hooked up and going through Twisties in ambitious Manner, the Clutch will give up very early.

 

Of Course, there will be some Members coming up and report "no Issues with synthetic whatsoever", and i don't deny their Story by any Meanings.

 

But they are probably those who need to replace the 'weak' stock Clutch Spring very early in the Bikes Life.

 

That's my Story and i'm sticking to it. No need to flame me on that Issue. I will stay away from synthetic Oil as long as i can buy standard Oil. These Engines are designed for standard Oil and i can't find any Reason to fill it up with expensive Stuff which might ruin my Clutch early. I even mounted a Drag-Style Lock-up Clutch on my Max and intend to do so on my 12Gen when the Time comes to open the Clutch Cover.

i partially agree with you. im pro synthetic cuz i'm mr. overkill, but i haven't bent over to the motorcycle specific scam and never will. alot of the dragracers over here are running mobil1 5w-30 energy conserving in their zx-14's and busas. for lower friction, cuz of the moly content which gives less drag and a few more hp. i run mobil1 10w-30 automotive energy conserving in all my bikes including my 14. never had a problem. i used castrol syntec 10w-40 in my max when i had it. i am not hard on clutches and have never cooked one. i figure if these guys can pump 4 or 5 hundred hp through a beefed up busa clutch. i ain't gonna have no problems. and i get less friction and wear on the engine internals as a bonus. works for me. beside i thought the tires are supposed to do all the slipping not the clutch. lol, mine have a habit of getting loose once in awhile. bill

[RedRider]

Well, I'm returning the new friction plates to the dealer and will be purchasing 4 new steels (that's how many were blue). I am also changing my oil back to dino. Hopefully, this will take care of the problem. Unfortunately, I will have to wait until spring to find out.

 

I am amazed at how easy it is to change the clutch with proper tools. The only thing out of the ordinary is a couple of mechanics picks and a really small set of needle nose pliers to get the lock wire out without damaging it.

 

RR

[Rick Butler]

Red,

 

If your metal plates mic out to within specs and are not warped, then all you need to do is beed blast them to take the sheen off of them and put them back in. But even though the fiber plates are still within specs, I'd replace them and go ahead and spring for the PWC heavier pressure plate.

 

But if you want a clutch that will NEVER SLIP, just stack 2 pressure plates together and put her back together. Now you will have a clutch lever that will take more grip to pull it in, but it will still be manageable. And with this change you won't have to worry about fiber plates, until they are plum worn out.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[lonestarmedic]

After thinking about it for a few days, I guess I will chip in my opinion.

 

1) I feel that heat blued plates should be replaced. Any time steel is heated like this I believe the temper and hardness changes. Also, I would look with a magnifying glass and check for cracks and galling.

 

2) Age is not a friend to most clutch materials. I found a lot of deterioration on my 1986 clutch pack in between the contact surfaces (oil grooves)

 

3) Age is not a friend to springs that sit under pressure. Coil and diaphragm both will

take a set and lose strength.

 

4) Being at the mercy of a dealer or a parts supplier in the middle of vacation miles from home is not fun.

 

5) Pulling a trailer and 2 up puts an extra strain on the driveline and components will wear faster and need to be of high quality and more durable than stock.

 

So with these observations I suggest new plates and frictions. Also I would upgrade the pressure spring to the PCW unit. It offers a higher clamp force that won't wear out your clutch hand. The double spring trick works well but offers a high pull effort and very little clearance for slippages at a stop. I have used it years ago when racing but don't personally like it for the street. Also, remember the increased force in the clutch assembly will translate into higher pressures for the clutch hydraulics. Possible master or slave problems and rebuilding might be needed.

 

Well, that is my long-winded ideas on the subject. We can discuss oils in another thread.

 

JB